Organized Chaos Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 What is Agnosticism ? Wikipedia says : [b]Agnosticism[/b] is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable. My own idea : I believe Agnosticism is when you are unsure about whether there is a deity or not, whether truth has value, whether if this is the real life or if it is just a fantasy, etc. Agnostics have their own philosophical views and theories but only view them as ideas or theories until they have evidence. People who are too lazy to believe in God or to have ideas are not considered Agnostics. They're simply lazy. My question(s) for you YCM is ; are you Agnostic ? Have you ever considered being Agnostic ? Which explanation do you agree with more ? I am a Agnostic myself so don't go all soap-mouthed about it. inb4Anti-Theist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Nope. [quote name='NotSoSlenderMan' timestamp='1326481344' post='5762645'] inb4Anti-Theist [/quote] lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John A. Zoidberg Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Firstly, I hate when people refer to themselves as "agnostic-atheist" as the term is completely contradictory. To be on topic, however, Agnosticism seems like a "Don't know, don't care," type deal, so it really just comes off as lazy to me. Not to bash those who [i]are [/i]agnostic, it's just my point of view. I firmly believe that there is no, never was, and never will be a god, deity, or any supernatural supreme ruler. That being said, I allow people to believe what they want, despite how misguided I find it, as, well, who am I to say what someone can and can't find true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CinnamonStar Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Sad, for this I don't have a K-Pop macr- Wait, I have one.0_o [spoiler=I don naaaaa] [img]http://i43.tinypic.com/zit74m.jpg[/img][/spoiler] But seriously, some people have other issues to think about in life or just don't care about metaphysical things to spend a lot of time with them. I know some of these, but some "don't really care" people also end up considering themselves Atheists. And that's all fine. Who are we to say when someone's ties to -isms are strong enough. When they open their mouth the most about it? Also, yes. I consider Agnosticism + "something" to be part of my mindest, but it's not like it interferes a lot into my [i]everyday[/i] life. [s]Not like K-Pop macros, but that's only online anyway.[/s] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~/Coolio Prime\~ Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Agnostic Pantheist [quote name='Ryūku' timestamp='1326486451' post='5762743'] Firstly, I hate when people refer to themselves as "agnostic-atheist" as the term is completely contradictory. To be on topic, however, Agnosticism seems like a "Don't know, don't care," type deal, so it really just comes off as lazy to me. Not to bash those who [i]are [/i]agnostic, it's just my point of view. I firmly believe that there is no, never was, and never will be a god, deity, or any supernatural supreme ruler. That being said, I allow people to believe what they want, despite how misguided I find it, as, well, who am I to say what someone can and can't find true? [/quote] Actually, agnosticism is a general statement of being unsure while atheism is the lack of faith, leaning towards nothing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRenji Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ussCHoQttyQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ussCHoQttyQ[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John A. Zoidberg Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='~Coolio~' timestamp='1326493393' post='5762825'] Agnostic Pantheist Actually, agnosticism is a general statement of being unsure while atheism is the lack of faith, leaning towards nothing. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism"]http://en.wikipedia....gnostic_atheism[/url] [/quote] Yes, but in the general regard of people who see agnosticism as just a show of faith rather than lack of sureness as a whole (which, honestly, that's the majority), they use the term AS religious as a whole. So to the majority, it is as though saying "I don't believe in god but I'm also not denying that god exists," which is a clear-cut contradiction. I mean, like I said, I really could not care less what someone believes in, but those who regard the concept of agnosticism as only religious, then refer to themselves as agnostic atheists are just lucky sons of b****es that they have those who [i]are [/i]educated in the subject to defend what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~/Coolio Prime\~ Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Not believing in something is not believing in the absence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John A. Zoidberg Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='~Coolio~' timestamp='1326509161' post='5763316'] Not believing in something is not believing in the absence. [/quote] Explain. You could say, "I don't believe in the existence of aliens." If I interpreted your post correctly, you are saying that by saying "I don't believe in aliens," I am really saying "I don't believe in the absence of the existence aliens," which couldn't be true for obvious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Oh I don't know. You could say agnostics firmly believe they have no way of accurately proving or disproving the existance of a deity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~/Coolio Prime\~ Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Agnosticism is supposed to be a general statement of uncertainty, it doesn't imply an ultimatum. When you say you do not believe in aliens you are saying that you have not been met with proper evidence for the existence of aliens. Thus, while your interpretation on the matter is indeed contradictory, the Agnostic Atheist response is that you are not denying the chance that there is evidence for aliens while, given that you haven't been met with evidence you find satisfactory, you currently hold no belief that there is. An Agnostic Theist holds the same essential viewpoint, only they err towards the possibility of a God under their certain convictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John A. Zoidberg Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='~Coolio~' timestamp='1326526524' post='5763695'] Agnosticism is supposed to be a general statement of uncertainty, it doesn't imply an ultimatum. When you say you do not believe in aliens you are saying that you have not been met with proper evidence for the existence of aliens. Thus, while your interpretation on the matter is indeed contradictory, the Agnostic Atheist response is that you are not denying the chance that there is evidence for aliens while, given that you haven't been met with evidence you find satisfactory, you currently hold no belief that there is. An Agnostic Theist holds the same essential viewpoint, only they err towards the possibility of a God under their certain convictions. [/quote] I see. Quite informative. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeal Ascendant Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Why would I be agnostic when god obviously doesn't exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Organized Chaos Posted January 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='~ GMK ~' timestamp='1326545731' post='5763775'] Why would I be agnostic when god obviously doesn't exist? [/quote] See now, an Agnostic's counter question would be "What evidence do you have for that ? Did you go back in time and see with your own eyes if God did/did not create the universe ?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeal Ascendant Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='NotSoSlenderMan' timestamp='1326572415' post='5764239'] See now, an Agnostic's counter question would be "What evidence do you have for that ? Did you go back in time and see with your own eyes if God did/did not create the universe ?" [/quote] Well I should restrain myself now, I don't want to have a whole theological debate on my hands >_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bury the year Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 Interestingly, we had a debate in theology class on this just Friday. I'm an atheist, if only because of the "reasonable doubt" aspect of religion. I'm open to it and would fully accept it if we had concrete proof, but I don't put all my eggs in one basket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='Rinne' timestamp='1326587297' post='5764584'] Interestingly, we had a debate in theology class on this just Friday. I'm an atheist, if only because of the "reasonable doubt" aspect of religion. I'm open to it and would fully accept it if we had concrete proof, but I don't put all my eggs in one basket. [/quote] If there was concrete proof, religion wouldn't exist now would it? That's actually odd of me to use that argument being a theist. 8D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~/Coolio Prime\~ Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 Even if there were concrete proof of something it would be refuted for a number of generations. Aherm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='~Coolio~' timestamp='1326588990' post='5764631'] Even if there were concrete proof of something it would be refuted for a number of generations. Aherm. [/quote] Anything that is widely refuted can't have 100% concrete proof. Human reasoning doesn't difer [i]that[/i] much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Jesse Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 I'm an agnostic atheist. I assert that true knowledge of God is impossible. and regardless of whether or not you like the label, the very definition of agnosticism is not "you're unsure." If you do believe in God, you're a theist, if not, you're an atheist. being unsure constitutes disbelief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 an agnostic dyslexic insomniac staying up all night wondering if there really is a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~/Coolio Prime\~ Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='Comrade Trollestia' timestamp='1326589804' post='5764648'] Anything that is widely refuted can't have 100% concrete proof. Human reasoning doesn't difer [i]that[/i] much. [/quote] One might wish. But as history and modern day can prove rather easily, we all deny what's right there in front of us if it makes us feel better. Coping methods. And given that nothing is certain only the subjective can have certainties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~ P O L A R I S ~ Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 [quote name='~Coolio~'] Agnostic Pantheist[/quote] Doesn't pantheism by principle claim the existence of God as everything in nature, a claim that one who recognizes their uncertainty has no place making? As much as combining the term for my beliefs on the matter with the term for Einsteins' might have a sexually appealing ring, it doesn't make sense. [quote name='Nightmare Zarkus' timestamp='1326598796' post='5764804'] I'm an agnostic atheist. I assert that true knowledge of God is impossible. [/quote] Tell me why you assert this as though you are certain. Unless you have within you an omniscient sense with which I cannot relate and by no means am ruling out, then you speak on false pretenses in assuming you've completely eliminated the possibility of true knowledge of God. [quote name='Nightmare Zarkus' timestamp='1326598796' post='5764804'] and regardless of whether or not you like the label, the very definition of agnosticism is not "you're unsure." If you do believe in God, you're a theist, if not, you're an atheist. being unsure constitutes disbelief. [/quote] Agnosticism constitutes neither belief nor disbelief, not confined to either commitment. I acknowledge the possibilities of God's existence and God's non-existence, but do not claim to know truth in either one. I'd also simply call one who asserts the impossibility of true knowledge of God an atheist as opposed to an "agnostic atheist". [quote name='Robert Flint in 1887-1888'] If a man has failed to find any good reason for believing that there is a God, it is perfectly natural and rational that he should not believe that there is a God; and if so, he is an atheist... if he goes farther, and, after an investigation into the nature and reach of human knowledge, ending in the conclusion that the existence of God is incapable of proof, cease to believe in it on the ground that he cannot know it to be true, he is an agnostic and also an atheist – an agnostic-atheist – an atheist because an agnostic... while, then, it is erroneous to identify agnosticism and atheism, it is equally erroneous so to separate them as if the one were exclusive of the other.[/quote] An agnostic has no business "not believing that there is a God" because an agnostic is defined by the recognition of his/her uncertainty as to whether there is a God. It does not then follow that an agnostic can go on to "not believe that there is a God" without converting from agnosticism to atheism anymore than they can simultaneously proclaim uncertainty and belief. Flint is "erroneous" in combining them as they are in fact mutually exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Jesse Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 [quote name='~ P O L A R I S ~' timestamp='1326700590' post='5766602'] Tell me why you assert this as though you are certain. Unless you have within you an omniscient sense with which I cannot relate and by no means am ruling out, then you speak on false pretenses in assuming you've completely eliminated the possibility of true knowledge of God. [/quote] It's mainly just a personal opinion thing. I don't think anything could ever prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that there's a religious god out there. Perhaps a higher power, but not in the religious sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~ P O L A R I S ~ Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 [quote name='Nightmare Zarkus'] I don't think anything could ever prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that there's a religious god out there.[/quote] That's great! =D "A reasonable doubt" is all you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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