WWECENA Posted February 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 [quote name='guuu1234' timestamp='1328314720' post='5797468'] There is nothing wrong with this card. Nobody uses heal decks to actually abuse this card, otherwise it's just a mirror force that WILL be used for one turn IF it isn't destroyed at all. this just does what mirror force does (obviously), except it gives a player the option of keeping it or not (though i don't know how a card that can CLEAR a monster zone will be useful after one activation anyway ) [/quote] i will be useful if you playing against Akiza i mean she spam special summon monsters loool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 [quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1328312311' post='5797405'] The card is fine the way it is, except the fact it would be@3 on the current B& list, due to not having list attention :/ Seriously, it only needs to serve the purpose of being another copy of Mirror Force, and then nobody is really going to pay the additional 2000 cost. So if anything, add the 2000 cost to the activation of it, and NOT as a maintenance cost. [/quote] [quote name='~King Crouton~' timestamp='1328314357' post='5797459'] You don't HAVE to pay the cost. You can just use it, then destroy it instead of paying. It's the same as Imperial Order or Mirror Wall. [/quote] These 2 posts sum the card up quite nicely, as far as simply analyzing goes. [quote name='WWECENA' timestamp='1328312714' post='5797421'] i know but 2000 LP every turn to activate mirror force it's worth it and like i said before you can get LP easy i remember getting 15k LP in 1 turn thanx to draining shield =_= what do you mean not as a maintenance cost ? [/quote] What Arm meant to say was that you needed to make each use of its effect cost 2000, rather than having it be a maintenance cost. The maintenance cost being using it is really broken, tbh, because as Crouton mentioned, it can be abused by not paying it at all. It also makes hilarious MST bait, and will slow them until they get Stardust/Scrap Drag/MST/Heavy. Even so, it's fairly broken, and needs some sort of other restriction on it. Maybe make it like Scrap-Iron Scarecrow? It re-sets itself each turn, but you have to pay 2000 to use it? I feel there's more to do here, to balance it, but I'm not sure how to do that and keep the card's integrity... The problem is that cards like this are inherently broken, as they're a free turn of w/e and then you pay for them. The fact you based it on Mirror Force, an already broken card @1, so making a substitute that doe the same thing is... Either gonna be broken or worthless ._. Most redos end like that, and I'm trying to have an abstract way to tackel this.. [quote name='guuu1234' timestamp='1328314720' post='5797468'] There is nothing wrong with this card. Nobody uses heal decks to actually abuse this card, otherwise it's just a mirror force that WILL be used for one turn IF it isn't destroyed at all. this just does what mirror force does (obviously), except it gives a player the option of keeping it or not (though i don't know how a card that can CLEAR a monster zone will be useful after one activation anyway ) [/quote] There's a ton wrong with it as is. Imperial Order is banned, you know. This serves the same purpose as IO does, in its current state- One turn of "I activate Mirror Force", then let it die. No one would keep it, it just lets you run MF@4, when MF is @1 ._. [quote name='ragnarok1945' timestamp='1328313816' post='5797449'] well I didn't say you HAD to use the discard 1 card per turn as long as you don't use the 2000 LP pay per turn [/quote] ... Why are you telling him to add another cost that has nothing to do with the card? You're just derailing the topic and not really helping the poster. Just tell him how to make it more balanced without adding random costs out of the blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragnarok1945 Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 [quote name='WWECENA' timestamp='1328314298' post='5797456'] oh so what you saying is when the monster attack i can pay 2000 LP to destroy all the monster then at the end of the turn i discard 1 card or destroy this card [/quote] exactly, but as King said, no need to pay the cost. It's an OPTION, not a REQUIREMENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWECENA Posted February 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 so ( Relius Clover ) what's your idea of making this card [font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif]balanced ?[/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 [quote name='WWECENA' timestamp='1328317488' post='5797573'] so ( Relius Clover ) what's your idea of making this card [font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif]balanced ?[/font] [/quote] Well, the very nature of the card is broken, and there's no true way to make this balanced without changing it completely... But what I'd recommend to make it a bit better would be: Normal Spell When an opponent's monster declares an attack: Pay 2000 Life Points; Destroy all attack position monsters your opponent controls, and Set this card face-down again instead of sending it to the Graveyard. Though, that's just me. I feel it puts the right amount of fear in their mind of what you have while drawing their MSTs away from your other traps and/or spells. The cost is hefty enough that they can counteract it simply by Ramming, and cards like Tengu just ensure maximum fighting back, but the card's still not... Balanced. Though, I don't think you can get much closer while keeping integrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChibiFan7 Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 this card is alright. but seeing as how you normally start out with 8000LP its would be kinda life draining unless you have a bunch of dien ketos or red medicines or something along that line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWECENA Posted February 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 [quote name='Relius Clover' timestamp='1328318122' post='5797599'] Normal Spell When an opponent's monster declares an attack: Pay 2000 Life Points; Destroy all attack position monsters your opponent controls, and Set this card face-down again instead of sending it to the Graveyard. [/quote] making a spell card that work like Scrap-Iron Scarecrow that's new there is 2 problem with your idea first it should be a continuous spell not normal and the second one is i can't see Mirror Force as a spell card really =_= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icy Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 [quote name='WWECENA' timestamp='1328318933' post='5797619'] it should be a continuous spell [/quote] I really hate calling people out on their own cards. But uh... WHY?! He's not changing your card's idea at all, nor is he affecting its integrity. Everything you designed is still very present. So why "SHOULD" it remain a continuous spell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 I, uh, meant a Normal TRAP. I jsut typed spell by msitake x.x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWECENA Posted February 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 [quote name='Relius Clover' timestamp='1328319714' post='5797638'] I, uh, meant a Normal TRAP. I jsut typed spell by msitake x.x [/quote] lol now it make more sense but it's a good idea i like it for this card so should i change the effect ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 [quote name='WWECENA' timestamp='1328319976' post='5797645'] lol now it make more sense but it's a good idea i like it for this card so should i change the effect ? [/quote] Yeah. As far as I've thought, it seems the... MOST balanced version while true to itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWECENA Posted February 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 [quote name='Relius Clover' timestamp='1328320192' post='5797653'] Yeah. As far as I've thought, it seems the... MOST balanced version while true to itself. [/quote] ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 this is the first actually balanced card WWECENA has made that I have seen. ignoring the terrible name and picture, I love the card. Of course it would be limited, and maybe if you wanted to stop people from having 2 mirror forces in deck say "this card's name is treated as Mirror Force." Mirror force needs a buff, and this is it. Also, OCG fix: Once per turn: When your opponent declares an attack: Destroy all Face-Up Attack Position monsters they control. During your Standby Phase: Pay 2000 Life Points OR Destroy this card. I think that is better OCG. I may have gotten a cap or two off, but it is the general idea. Also, what is this people are saying about draining your life. If you are low on life, then you let it get destroyed... Finally, could somebody give me a ruling on this? If I attack, and they use this, can I chain MST and would its effect still resolve? (I am terrible with "Once per turn: ..." continuous trap rulings) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWECENA Posted February 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1328380923' post='5798895'] this is the first actually balanced card WWECENA has made that I have seen. ignoring the terrible name and picture, I love the card. Of course it would be limited, and maybe if you wanted to stop people from having 2 mirror forces in deck say "this card's name is treated as Mirror Force." Mirror force needs a buff, and this is it. Also, OCG fix: Once per turn: When your opponent declares an attack: Destroy all Face-Up Attack Position monsters they control. During your Standby Phase: Pay 2000 Life Points OR Destroy this card. I think that is better OCG. I may have gotten a cap or two off, but it is the general idea. Also, what is this people are saying about draining your life. If you are low on life, then you let it get destroyed... Finally, could somebody give me a ruling on this? If I attack, and they use this, can I chain MST and would its effect still resolve? (I am terrible with "Once per turn: ..." continuous trap rulings) [/quote] the first balance card i made i actually don't see you in my post this the 2 post i see you in so you judge me from 2 posts hmmm at least see my 325 posts i made then you can judge me all you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1328380923' post='5798895'] this is the first actually balanced card WWECENA has made that I have seen. ignoring the terrible name and picture, I love the card. [/quote] This isn't balanced in any way, shape, or form. [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1328380923' post='5798895']Of course it would be limited, and maybe if you wanted to stop people from having 2 mirror forces in deck say "this card's name is treated as Mirror Force." Mirror force needs a buff, and this is it. [/quote] If it would be limited, it is not balanced ._. That doesn't work, because the CARD Mirror Force is banned, not the name. [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1328380923' post='5798895'] Also, what is this people are saying about draining your life. If you are low on life, then you let it get destroyed... [/quote] But as is it's broken as hell. It's a +3 (+2 if its name counts as MF) Mirror Forces for your deck [img]http://images.wikia.com/yugioh/images/2/24/ImperialOrderDB1-EN-UR-UE.jpg[/img] Remember this? No one payed its cost. They just let it blow up after a turn of NO SPELLS FOR YOU. This would be used in the same way as he made it, and thus be horrendously broken. The Scrap-Iron approach is going to give it the most balance it can hace without changing it from the original intent =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 [quote name='Relius Clover' timestamp='1328318122' post='5797599'] Well, the very nature of the card is broken, and there's no true way to make this balanced without changing it completely... But what I'd recommend to make it a bit better would be: Normal Spell When an opponent's monster declares an attack: Pay 2000 Life Points; Destroy all attack position monsters your opponent controls, and Set this card face-down again instead of sending it to the Graveyard. Though, that's just me. I feel it puts the right amount of fear in their mind of what you have while drawing their MSTs away from your other traps and/or spells. The cost is hefty enough that they can counteract it simply by Ramming, and cards like Tengu just ensure maximum fighting back, but the card's still not... Balanced. Though, I don't think you can get much closer while keeping integrity. [/quote] You seriously think everything is broken. This card literally just gives mirror force the extra boost it needs in a meta with Inzektors etc... this card would simply get most decks playing a Mirror Force again, and prevent it from being dropped out of meta once and for all. And wtf is this about Normal Spell. The card you just outlined is useless. If you meant normal trap, it would see nearly NO PLAY except in anti meta decks. [quote name='Relius Clover' timestamp='1328383876' post='5799008'] If it would be limited, it is not balanced ._. [/quote] Nope.avi [quote name='Relius Clover' timestamp='1328383876' post='5799008'] [color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]That doesn't work, because the CARD Mirror Force is banned, not the name.[/size][/font][/color] [/quote] Again, nope.avi. See the harpie lady rulings. And Mirror Force is not banned ~.~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1328384099' post='5799013'] You seriously think everything is broken. This card literally just gives mirror force the extra boost it needs in a meta with Inzektors etc... this card would simply get most decks playing a Mirror Force again, and prevent it from being dropped out of meta once and for all. And wtf is this about Normal Spell. The card you just outlined is useless. If you meant normal trap, it would see nearly NO PLAY except in anti meta decks. [/quote] I don't think everyone is broken, but this section is really out of touch with the game. Mirror force is never going to go to more than 1. It's perfect at 1. I later said the normal spell was a TYPO, so you really need to learn =/ And if decks had access to 3-4 Mirror Force, they would run 3-4 Mirror Force ._. Scrap-Iron approach makes it so they'd only run about 1 more, maybe 2, and have to pay to use it. [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1328384099' post='5799013'] Nope.avi [/quote] Uh, yes ._. Please learn to play this game and design these cards. [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1328384099' post='5799013'] Again, nope.avi. See the harpie lady rulings. And Mirror Force is not banned ~.~ [/quote] Harpie Ladies say they share a name. But they aren't the same card, so, should you ban Cyber Harpie Lady, you can still run the others. If there was another copy it would be =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 [quote name='Relius Clover' timestamp='1328385833' post='5799094'] Harpie Ladies say they share a name. But they aren't the same card, so, should you ban Cyber Harpie Lady, you can still run the others. If there was another copy it would be =/ [/quote] if you ban Cyber Harpie Lady you can still run the others. However if you banned Harpie Lady, you COULD NOT. If you made this card share the same name as Mirror Force, then you could either run one or the other, not both. [QUOTE] [color=#3A3A3A][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][size=3]The name of "[/size][/font][/color][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Harpie_Lady_1"]Harpie Lady 1[/url][color=#3A3A3A][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][size=3]", "[/size][/font][/color][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Harpie_Lady_2"]Harpie Lady 2[/url][color=#3A3A3A][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][size=3]", and "[/size][/font][/color][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Harpie_Lady_3"]Harpie Lady 3[/url][color=#3A3A3A][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][size=3]" is treated as "[/size][/font][/color][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Harpie_Lady"]Harpie Lady[/url][color=#3A3A3A][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][size=3]" for all purposes, including [/size][/font][/color][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Deck"]Deck[/url][color=#3A3A3A][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][size=3] construction. So you can have 2 copies of "[/size][/font][/color][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Harpie_Lady_1"]Harpie Lady 1[/url][color=#3A3A3A][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][size=3]" in your[/size][/font][/color][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Deck"]Deck[/url][color=#3A3A3A][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][size=3] and 1 copy of "[/size][/font][/color][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Harpie_Lady_2"]Harpie Lady 2[/url][color=#3A3A3A][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][size=3]", but not 2 copies of each because you would have 4 cards in your Deck treated as "[/size][/font][/color][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Harpie_Lady"]Harpie Lady[/url][color=#3A3A3A][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][size=3]". This restriction also applies to your [/size][/font][/color][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Side_Deck"]Side Deck[/url][color=#3A3A3A][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][size=3], so if you have 3 monsters treated as "[/size][/font][/color][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Harpie_Lady"]Harpie Lady[/url][color=#3A3A3A][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][size=3]" in your [/size][/font][/color][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Deck"]Deck[/url][color=#3A3A3A][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][size=3], you cannot have any in your [/size][/font][/color][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Side_Deck"]Side Deck[/url][color=#3A3A3A][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][size=3]. [/QUOTE][/size][/font][/color] [color=#3A3A3A][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][size=3]Logic is logical. If Harpie Lady was limited, you can only have 1 of all cards whose name is treated as Harpie Lady.[/size][/font][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWECENA Posted February 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 omg Relius Clover who told you that mirror force is banned =_= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1328386194' post='5799102'] if you ban Cyber Harpie Lady you can still run the others. However if you banned Harpie Lady, you COULD NOT. If you made this card share the same name as Mirror Force, then you could either run one or the other, not both. [/size][/font][/color] [color=#3A3A3A][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][size=3]Logic is logical. If Harpie Lady was limited, you can only have 1 of all cards whose name is treated as Harpie Lady.[/size][/font][/color] [/quote] You don't know what you're talking about =/ If you ban Harpie Lady, only the CARD Harpie Lady is banned. You can still run Cyber and #s 1-3. The name "Harpie Lady" isn't banned. Just like if you banned Umi, you could still run 3 ALO. There's no defense to your argument, just the Wikia ruling that says they all share a name.[quote name='WWECENA' timestamp='1328386345' post='5799107'] omg Relius Clover who told you that mirror force is banned =_= [/quote] I never said it was banned, he just assumed I said something I didn't, as usual =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWECENA Posted February 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 oh ok lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 [quote name='Relius Clover' timestamp='1328386388' post='5799108'] I never said it was banned, he just assumed I said something I didn't, as usual =/ [/quote] Sorry to burst your bubble bro, but you sorta did. [Quote][color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]the CARD Mirror Force is banned[/QUOTE][/size][/font][/color] ... And I am afraid you do not know what you are talking about. I do not see what you do not get about this simple fact: [QUOTE] [color=#3A3A3A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]The name of "[/font][/size][/font][/color][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Harpie_Lady_1"]Harpie Lady 1[/url][color=#3A3A3A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]", "[/font][/size][/font][/color][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Harpie_Lady_2"]Harpie Lady 2[/url][color=#3A3A3A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]", and "[/font][/size][/font][/color][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Harpie_Lady_3"]Harpie Lady 3[/url][color=#3A3A3A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]" is treated as "[/font][/size][/font][/color][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Harpie_Lady"]Harpie Lady[/url][color=#3A3A3A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]" for all purposes, including [/font][/size][/font][/color][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Deck"]Deck[/url][color=#3A3A3A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] construction. [/QUOTE][/font][/size][/font][/color] [color=#3A3A3A][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][size=3]The quote says (clear as day I might point out) that you can only have 3 TOTAL of all these cards. Thus, if harpie lady was semi limited you could only have 2 TOTAL, if harpie lady was limited you could only have 1 TOTAL, and if harpie lady was banned you can have 0 TOTAL. Stop arguing a point that it is obvious you have lost before you look like you have even LESS idea of what you are talking about than when you said Mirror Force is banned.[/size][/font][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1328386880' post='5799126'] Sorry to burst your bubble bro, but you sorta did. [/size][/font][/color] ... And I am afraid you do not know what you are talking about. I do not see what you do not get about this simple fact: [/font][/size][/font][/color] [color=#3A3A3A][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][size=3]The quote says (clear as day I might point out) that you can only have 3 TOTAL of all these cards. Thus, if harpie lady was semi limited you could only have 2 TOTAL, if harpie lady was limited you could only have 1 TOTAL, and if harpie lady was banned you can have 0 TOTAL. Stop arguing a point that it is obvious you have lost before you look like you have even LESS idea of what you are talking about than when you said Mirror Force is banned.[/size][/font][/color] [/quote] Kindly, quote the whole post. Don't take it out of context =/ No. They share the same name, yes. But in thsi argument Harpie Lady is @1. Not Harpie Lady #1,#2,#3, or Cyber. AS such, you could run 1 regular and 2 of the others, because the NAME "Harpie Lady" isn't what was limited. It's the same with Grand Mole if there was a NEX variant. You can run up to 3 cards with the same name, as long as you're only runnign 1 of the physical CARD that is limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 [quote]Relius is right. The card's [b]name [/b]being treated as a card is different from being a card. If you were to ban Harpie Lady, you could still run the other Harpie Ladies as their names are the only things treated as Harpie Lady. You could only run 3 copies, even though the original is actually banned. Similarly, as Grand Mole is Limited, running a NEX version would mean you could run up to 2 including the Grand Mole in your Main Deck. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Ok, since you will not believe logic, read the rules. [QUOTE] Normally, your Deck (including Extra Deck and Side Deck) can contain up to 3 copies of a card that has the same [b]name[/b]. However, certain cards have specific quantity restrictions that further limit [b]the number[/b] that can be included in a Deck [/QUOTE] If you cant figure it out, the number is the number of cards with the same name. And sure, I would be happy to post the whole quote. [quote name='Relius Clover' timestamp='1328383876' post='5799008'] This isn't balanced in any way, shape, or form. If it would be limited, it is not balanced ._. That doesn't work, [b]because the CARD Mirror Force is banned, not the name.[/b] But as is it's broken as hell. It's a +3 (+2 if its name counts as MF) Mirror Forces for your deck [Imperial Order Pic] Remember this? No one payed its cost. They just let it blow up after a turn of NO SPELLS FOR YOU. This would be used in the same way as he made it, and thus be horrendously broken. The Scrap-Iron approach is going to give it the most balance it can hace without changing it from the original intent =/ [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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