thekazu4u Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 ... we can have a time vault-ish thing .[img]http://yugico.com/customcard/38485.jpg[/img] [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3][left]When you would enter your Standby Phase: Enter your End Phase instead. When your opponent would draw a card(s): Put one Leech Counter on this card instead. When there are 20 Leech Counters on this card: You lose the Duel.[/left][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3][left]== You need an MST[/left][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3][left]OP'd or no? Worried its broken but have not thought up a way myself. I mean, I guess you can use it with MST to draw out 19 cards for no cost if they have no useful cards in hand/field.[/left][/size][/font][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Althemia Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 How is this even good in any way? Either way it's a lose/lose situation. Why would your opponent ever MST this when it basically means that you lose the Duel and cannot do anything? You enter your Standby Phase and then your turns ends, woopie. Now your 1 turn closer to losing. Isn't that fantastic? Also, just from the first condition on this card, you won't even be able to survive for long enough to get 20 Leech Counters on the damn thing. Sure your opponent doesn't even get to draw, but you don't get to do anything and you most probably won't be able to get an MST and even so you just wasted an MST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guuu1234 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 This card wouldn't be that bad if it wasn't too situational. the problem is that you enter your standby phase, then immediately enter your end phase, which would be a good use for burn decks (solar flare dragon specifically), but isn't exactly reliable. Then your opponent would draw a card, but they can't so it creates a lockdown. While this burn/lockdown situation is extremely unlikely, the fact that if your opponent is backed against a wall, all you have to do is activate this card and suddenly they can't draw is too op'ed. You COULD use this in combination of Solomon's Lawbook, skip your standby phase, and punish your opponent. however, again, this is extremely unlikely. Not to mention that this card is broken, because it keeps your opponent from drawing under any situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sander Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 [quote name='guuu1234' timestamp='1332456154' post='5884201'] This card wouldn't be that bad if it wasn't too situational. the problem is that you enter your standby phase, then immediately enter your end phase, which would be a good use for burn decks (solar flare dragon specifically), but isn't exactly reliable. Then your opponent would draw a card, but they can't so it creates a lockdown. While this burn/lockdown situation is extremely unlikely, the fact that if your opponent is backed against a wall, all you have to do is activate this card and suddenly they can't draw is too op'ed. You COULD use this in combination of Solomon's Lawbook, skip your standby phase, and punish your opponent. however, again, this is extremely unlikely. Not to mention that this card is broken, because it keeps your opponent from drawing under any situation. [/quote] EVEN if you manage to make this so called "lockdown" you're talking about, you're still going to lose. Not because your opponent managed to beat you, but because you lost the ability to actually play any cards, par from Quick-Play Spell Cards. If it's a Stall Burn Lockdown deck, it's the utmost importance that you should be able to play (ie set) cards. If you can't, how would you activate cards like Threatening Roar / Magic Cylinder / other crappy stall or burn cards that Stall-Burn runs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 This + Metaion + MST/tornado = awesome This + Red Screen + MST/tornado = awesome This + Red Screen/Metaion + Play a lot of MSTs in deck = awesome Just saying. You are overlooking a lot. As long as your opponent does not have a spell/trap destruction card and you have this plus stall you will get 19 draws till you lose. Any MST you get in that time will probably result in a win. This card is a lot closer to being Op'd than UP'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sander Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 19 draws...did you forget that you can only have max 6 cards in your hand? Your 19 cards will be meaningless if you can't actually use them. [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1332457789' post='5884250'] This + Metaion + MST/tornado = awesome This + Red Screen + MST/tornado = awesome This + Red Screen/Metaion + Play a lot of MSTs in deck = awesome[/quote] All three of these examples are too situational to make this card useful at all. Red Screen + this card is just asking you to actually lose faster, as you're forced to pay 1k until you can't anymore. And then your opponent could just as well spring a random card that wins them the duel. Metaion is only useful once. After that, why would your opponent even bother Summoning anything if they can just as well wait for you to lose? [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1332457789' post='5884250'] Just saying. You are overlooking a lot. As long as your opponent does not have a spell/trap destruction card and you have this plus stall you will get 19 draws till you lose. Any MST you get in that time will probably result in a win. This card is a lot closer to being Op'd than UP'd. [/quote] The reason why we're overlooking this has already been explained. The card takes too much dedication to be of any use, but the idea of the card is broken. The only thing keeping this from actually being broken is the fact that you cannot play any new cards after you've activated this, par from MST etc, as I've already explained. tl;dr: Your combos are bad and too situational for this card to be considered broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1332457789' post='5884250'] This + Metaion + MST/tornado = awesome This + Red Screen + MST/tornado = awesome This + Red Screen/Metaion + Play a lot of MSTs in deck = awesome Just saying. You are overlooking a lot. As long as your opponent does not have a spell/trap destruction card and you have this plus stall you will get 19 draws till you lose. Any MST you get in that time will probably result in a win. This card is a lot closer to being Op'd than UP'd. [/quote] You make it sound like drawing a bunch of cards means something even if you can play 0 cards. Time Vault gives you infinite turns. This just makes it so you sit around waiting to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 [quote name='Zanda Panda' timestamp='1332458936' post='5884280'] Metaion is only useful once. After that, why would your opponent even bother Summoning anything if they can just as well wait for you to lose? [/quote] My bad. I thought that Red Screen activated cost in Standby not End. But still this card + meta is practically GG if they don't have a warning or MST. You play meta and set this. They would not summon (or maybe they would but they could not attack). You would get 19 draws before you lose. That is over half your deck (considering the deck is really only 34 or less cards after first hand). A single MST during this time and you get to play on with your favorite 7 cards of choice out of that ~20 cards in your hand. Most cases that is game. A smart player would try to save an MST in hand as well to not risk not drawing one during the ~19 turns of lock. And in Yugioh drawing that many cards does usually mean game Flame. Also I was trying to make a more balanced version of Vault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1332459420' post='5884299'] A single MST during this time and you get to play on with your favorite 7 cards of choice out of that ~20 cards in your hand. [/quote][size=8]HAND SIZE LIMIT.[/size] [size=3]Worth the 10% for disobeying AC.[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1332459420' post='5884299'] And in Yugioh drawing that many cards does usually mean game Flame. Also I was trying to make a more balanced version of Vault. [/quote] I played Yugioh for years, I know this. PoG is broken because of that. You seemed to missed the part where question how drawing a bunch of cards is going to end the game when you can't play any of them. That is unless your 1 draw a turn gets you a Quick-Play Spell that can eat this. Fun fact, many of the really broken cards in MTG were made because MaRo was trying to fix past failings. Yea, often times your going to end up with them being to good or trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 [quote name='Tsukasa Hiiragi' timestamp='1332459536' post='5884306'] [size=8]HAND SIZE LIMIT.[/size] [size=3]Worth the 10% for disobeying AC.[/size] [/quote] Next time please read my comment. [quote] [color=#9BA2A9][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]A single MST during this time and you get to play on with your favorite 7 cards of choice out of that ~20 cards in your hand. [/quote][/size][/font][/color] [color=#9BA2A9][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]7. 6 cards (card limit) plus draw = 7 cards.[/size][/font][/color] [color=#9BA2A9][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]And yea I know that they will do no good unless you draw into an MST or have one already in hand. That was sorta my design goal. I don't see how that is bad. If you did not need one other card to refill your hand to 7 out of the top 19 cards of your deck it would be silly. [/size][/font][/color] [color=#9BA2A9][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]Also there is all sorts of crazy craziness. 2 Solar Flare Dragons + this. Lava Golem + stall + this. [/size][/font][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guuu1234 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 [quote name='Zanda Panda' timestamp='1332456941' post='5884229'] EVEN if you manage to make this so called "lockdown" you're talking about, you're still going to lose. Not because your opponent managed to beat you, but because you lost the ability to actually play any cards, par from Quick-Play Spell Cards. If it's a Stall Burn Lockdown deck, it's the utmost importance that you should be able to play (ie set) cards. If you can't, how would you activate cards like Threatening Roar / Magic Cylinder / other crappy stall or burn cards that Stall-Burn runs? [/quote] If a player manages to summon solar flare dragon, then activate this card, it might as well be good game if their opponent has no way of destroying the trap OR destroying solar flare, 'cause then you can just burn them to 0. Even though, that is still situational, that is what i was trying to get across there in terms of a "Burn Lockdown" with those cards, not specifically a deck dedicated to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1332460120' post='5884334'] Next time please read my comment. 7. 6 cards (card limit) plus draw = 7 cards. And yea I know that they will do no good unless you draw into an MST or have one already in hand. That was sorta my design goal. I don't see how that is bad. If you did not need one other card to refill your hand to 7 out of the top 19 cards of your deck it would be silly. Also there is all sorts of crazy craziness. 2 Solar Flare Dragons + this. Lava Golem + stall + this. [/quote][/font][/size] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][quote]of choice out of that ~20 cards in your hand. [/quote][/font][/size] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Makes it seems like you forgot about the hand size. I can see what you mean but it reads poorly. Also, the card used to eat this should be counted, so it is only 6.[/font][/size] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]It is bad design because the card is literally worthless alone and most combos with it are just horrible. Again, you never want to just sit there while your opponent actually gets to play the game. It is fun and you'll just find yourself lossing every game.[/font][/size] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Ok, so you think your opponent is just going to sit around while you slowly burn them out. Yea, they aren't. Even if you have some kind of nut draw they have several turns to draw into a way to stop the combo. Normally when I play a game of yugioh the game can end in several turns and so spending that time only drawing 1 card a turn is just bad.[/font][/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guuu1234 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 huh? I'm a little confused by this card now If this card is activated, will your opponent still be able to draw? When i was reading it, I was under the impression that your opponent will be forced to skip ALL draw opprtunites while you accumlate cards, but lose your turn in the process. After all it does say "When your opponent would draw a card(s): Put one Leech Counter on this card [b]instead." [/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='guuu1234' timestamp='1332461383' post='5884371'] huh? I'm a little confused by this card now If this card is activated, will your opponent still be able to draw? When i was reading it, I was under the impression that your opponent will be forced to skip ALL draw opprtunites while you accumlate cards, but lose your turn in the process. After all it does say "When your opponent would draw a card(s): Put one Leech Counter on this card [b]instead." [/b] [/quote] No, I'm wrong. Missed the instead. Ok, that was my mistake. Still don't like since you still have their board to contend with as well as any cards they have in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted March 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1332461823' post='5884382'] No, I'm wrong. Missed the instead. Ok, that was my mistake. Still don't like since you still have their board to contend with as well as any cards they have in hand. [/quote] Well, that was the same board they started out with before you used leech, so it actually seems fairly OK considering it is only a 2 card combo and in a tough spot you could always draw into that 2nd card. Also note that you can chain it to an effect such as Gates of Darkworld to stop them getting a draw that way. Not anything humongous, but still worth mentioning. I am pretty sure the card is not UP'd, and you have convinced me it is not OP'd. Surely though it is not one of the better cards I designed for other reasons, mainly because the user does not really get to play. Although, a card is better design if it prevents the USER from playing than if it prevents the OPPONENT from playing. Neither is great, but the idea is that if you can't put up with it then just don't use it And yea its [b]instead. [/b]The whole point of the card sorta disappears if they still get to draw :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1332462397' post='5884397'] Well, that was the same board they started out with before you used leech, so it actually seems fairly OK considering it is only a 2 card combo and in a tough spot you could always draw into that 2nd card. Also note that you can chain it to an effect such as Gates of Darkworld to stop them getting a draw that way. Not anything humongous, but still worth mentioning. I am pretty sure the card is not UP'd, and you have convinced me it is not OP'd. Surely though it is not one of the better cards I designed for other reasons, mainly because the user does not really get to play. Although, a card is better design if it prevents the USER from playing than if it prevents the OPPONENT from playing. Neither is great, but the idea is that if you can't put up with it then just don't use it And yea its [b]instead. [/b]The whole point of the card sorta disappears if they still get to draw :S [/quote] Again, the biggest problem is they still get to do things. If your a head in the game you really don't need this but if your behind this just kills you. You can try using a combo but unless you already have an effect going on that kill them without your input and a way to keep them from doing anything you still can die. And that is why I thought it was horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted March 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1332463176' post='5884429'] Again, the biggest problem is they still get to do things. If your a head in the game you really don't need this but if your behind this just kills you. You can try using a combo but unless you already have an effect going on that kill them without your input and a way to keep them from doing anything you still can die. And that is why I thought it was horrible. [/quote] Fair enough. I think "horrible" is pushing it a bit too far. I think it could still be used in some teir 2-3 decks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1332463671' post='5884450'] Fair enough. I think "horrible" is pushing it a bit too far. I think it could still be used in some teir 2-3 decks. [/quote] I'm not calling the current version horrible. I was talking about the version I thought this was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted March 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1332464147' post='5884460'] I'm not calling the current version horrible. I was talking about the version I thought this was. [/quote] Oh. Then what about the real version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1332464463' post='5884470'] Oh. Then what about the real version? [/quote] It's ok. I personally don't like it, but someone will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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