Lady Freya Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 [center][img]http://i.imgur.com/ToA0f.jpg[/img] Simple powerful, +0[/center] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic Wolf Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 When you summon it it's a Special Summon? New but I think it should be more like "You can Special Summon this card by Removing 1 WATER monster in your Graveyard from play" so it makes more sense. Then make it be an option so like "You can Special Summon this card by Removing 1 WATER monster in your Graveyard from play. If you do this, destroy 1 monster on your opponent's side of the field." That's just my opinion however. Otherwise looks great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 [quote name='Sonic Wolf' timestamp='1337792192' post='5945512'] When you summon it it's a Special Summon? New but I think it should be more like "You can Special Summon this card by Removing 1 WATER monster in your Graveyard from play" so it makes more sense. Then make it be an option so like "You can Special Summon this card by Removing 1 WATER monster in your Graveyard from play. If you do this, destroy 1 monster on your opponent's side of the field." That's just my opinion however. Otherwise looks great! [/quote] Why on Earth would he want to do that? ._. As is, it's a +0 that basically turns a WATER monster you control into "Pop 1 card". Your way makes it so that you banish 1 in the Grave and kill 1, which nets you advantage for no good reason. Ironically, it might not be as abusive as it is now, that way, but is a worse concept overall. Also, this card is really badly designed because it rewards you for literally no reason whatsoever. I summoned a WATER monster? Okay, I turn it into a 1900 beater and pop one of your cards. Sure, 1900 isn't as important anymore, but it isn't going to stick around. Then you must consider the up-and-coming [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Atlantean"]Atlanteans[/url] and [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Mermail"]Mermails[/url], not to mention Deep Sea Diva. You get to make +s off of it that are absolutely bull. Needs to be a Semi-nomi, and needs to either have a weaker effect, a much more specific cost, and/or lower stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust42 Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 ... delete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 [quote name='Dust42' timestamp='1337846839' post='5945961'] If you have to tribute a card, and a water monster too, it isn't too strong at all. It basically becomes a 1900 attack monarch (see zaborg the thunder monarch) [/quote] Read posts above you before you comment =/ No, it's too strong as is, completely. 500 Less ATK in exchange for a, as you put it, Monarch with 1900 that can still abuse Treeborn, Ronintoadin, etc. Isn't good design, in any way at all. Then there's the fact that WATER is getting /more/ support for something like this. It's gonna net you plusses by simply being in your hand, as is. Nothing should be able to get you a +2 for little to no effort, though even a +1 attached to a Special Summon is bullcrap =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-so-Radiant Arin Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 <Summon 3 of these. <Pop 3 cards. <That one really horrendous Spell Card that lets you Special Summon 3 WATER monsters from Graveyard. <Synch/Xyz like no tomorrow with Deep Sea Diva/Atlanteans. Seems legit. I think the only thing that can be made worse about this card is if it became a Salvage target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love of Ghibli Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 Okay I guess I'm confused I can't seem to see it as that bad a card like everyone (well non noobs) seem to say it is. I'm trying to understand, the card by itself is a net zero but in conjunction with other cards its broken supremely. I just do not see it. [quote name='Devil's Advocate' timestamp='1337877005' post='5946103'] <Summon 3 of these. <Pop 3 cards. <That one really horrendous Spell Card that lets you Special Summon 3 WATER monsters from Graveyard. <Synch/Xyz like no tomorrow with Deep Sea Diva/Atlanteans. Seems legit. I think the only thing that can be made worse about this card is if it became a Salvage target. [/quote] Well if you really -3 then you probably should be able to pop three. Which I guess you just sacked the same drake over and over. Now if you are talking about Roar of the sea Emperor ( the really awful water card) it does say you can't special summon for the rest of the turn so you really can't sync/xyz like no tomorrow (in fact you kinda have to wait for tomorrow). So you would have set you hand back 3, hopefully popped something useful, and are sitting on a bunch of midget monsters. I guess your opponent could not wipe you out the next turn and you live to see tomorrow. Yes this card gets pluses with Atlanteans but I don't see how the card itself is so bad. Because that would mean that most yu-gi-oh cards that are a 0 by themselves but give pluses when combined with other cards are bad and if that is the case then it sounds like the only way to be good is to start off with a -1 and no one wants that, do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 Lets see here... This card: Tribute 1 -> Special (hand) -> Pop 1... Grapha: Discard -> Pop 1 -> Return 1 DW -> Special from Grave.. "This card" can potentially pop 3 cards in a row (given you have 3 cards in your hand), while Grapha allows you to maintain field presence. Even with the release of those new Atlantean monsters, its not much of a big deal. Inzektors do it, while gaining advantage, and so do Wind-ups, and to some extent Dino Rabbit. This card, evens it out as a 1 for 1 with decent attack. Tbh...its not OPed at all. Annoying? Maybe, but balanced regardless. You can abuse it with Treeborn (like Monarchs as stated above), but it gives you nothing more than a 1900 Beater. And sure, you might be able to get into some Synchros or Xyzs, but nothing that can't absolutely be devastating like losing your entire hand or losing all your cards while fighting an army of monsters, or a Lock that negates cards and then you have a 2400 beater still waiting. Overall? This card is pretty nice. 8.2/10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 [quote name='Beginning446' timestamp='1337879448' post='5946119'] Yes this card gets pluses with Atlanteans but I don't see how the card itself is so bad. Because that would mean that most yu-gi-oh cards that are a 0 by themselves but give pluses when combined with other cards are bad and if that is the case then it sounds like the only way to be good is to start off with a -1 and no one wants that, do they? [/quote] Think about it like this Deep Sea Diva -> Atlantean Armed Soldier (The level 2) -> This -> Pop 2 -> Sync for Dewloren/Brionac/Gaia Knight/etc. -> Net profit? A +2 Synchro Ronin Toadin turns it into "Banish a Frog in Grave, pop 1", so banish Dupe Frog and you got yourself netting even more plusses. Abysshilde makes it pull a Lv. 4 Mermail out of hand, let you pull off shenanigans, and then Xyz for 4 (Which has 5 great [i]generic [/i]Xyz), though this one is less than stellar. It's the fact that it IS for WATER that breaks it. FIRE, EARTH, or WIND would be fine, but beign a WATER monster is just completely abusable in every regard. Atlanteans are a predicted Tier Deck. WATER loves being sent to the grave from the field for shenanigans, especially with ABYR and the new Structure deck. It's a Pseudo Monarch (Even with Lower Stats) that sets off for doing just what WATER does best, now: Sending stuff to the Grave for a purpose. Also, this is Realistic Cards. The aim is to make it as realistic and balanced as possible, so if the card is bad design, it needs to be fixed. Not all badly designed cards are broken, though, in any given format. [quote name='Kenji Inuma' timestamp='1337880655' post='5946127'] Lets see here... This card: Tribute 1 -> Special (hand) -> Pop 1... Grapha: Discard -> Pop 1 -> Return 1 DW -> Special from Grave.. "This card" can potentially pop 3 cards in a row (given you have 3 cards in your hand), while Grapha allows you to maintain field presence. Even with the release of those new Atlantean monsters, its not much of a big deal. Inzektors do it, while gaining advantage, and so do Wind-ups, and to some extent Dino Rabbit. This card, evens it out as a 1 for 1 with decent attack. Tbh...its not OPed at all. Annoying? Maybe, but balanced regardless. You can abuse it with Treeborn (like Monarchs as stated above), but it gives you nothing more than a 1900 Beater. And sure, you might be able to get into some Synchros or Xyzs, but nothing that can't absolutely be devastating like losing your entire hand or losing all your cards while fighting an army of monsters, or a Lock that negates cards and then you have a 2400 beater still waiting. [/quote] Are you absolutely stupid? You're citing INZEKTORS and GRAPHA as a reason this is balanced? That's like saying BLS is balanced because Chaos Emperor Dragon is MORE BROKEN ._. Seriously, Grapha is absolutely horrible design, so are Inzektors (Overall), Rescue Rabbit, and Wind-up Zenmaity. You’re citing BROKEN ASS BADLY DESIGNED META DECKS? This is likely the absolute WORST post I've seen in RC since Ragnarok was banned. Just because the meta is more broken does NOT mean this is balanced, and if you think that way, stop posting here and go to Any Other Cards, because this type of thought is not welcome in Realistic Cards. To make it even worse, you tacked a spammy rating on at the end and your post lacks any constructive content towards the card =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 Balanced = Balanced Balanced =/= Weak Balanced =/= Strong This card is balanced because its a +0. It can net more +s with other cards, but not in a way "stated above". Scenario Opponent has 3 face-downs + 3 cards in hand You: 3 of these cards in hand + Treeborn + 2 other random cards. Normal Treeborn, Special this guy, pop 1. Special again, pop again Special again, pop again. In the end you used your own resources to take out your opponent. If that's bad, then why is Gemini Spark, MST, GK Descendant, Snowman Eater, Monarchs, and others used. The only advantage this guy gives is the fact that you can do it in 1 turn. But its not "unfair" game play since your opponent still has a chance. Lol, you can even bottomless the card to stop the loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love of Ghibli Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 [quote name='Kenji Inuma' timestamp='1337883035' post='5946150'] Balanced = Balanced Balanced =/= Weak Balanced =/= Strong This card is balanced because its a +0. It can net more +s with other cards, but not in a way "stated above". Scenario Opponent has 3 face-downs + 3 cards in hand You: 3 of these cards in hand + Treeborn + 2 other random cards. Normal Treeborn, Special this guy, pop 1. Special again, pop again Special again, pop again. In the end you used your own resources to take out your opponent. If that's bad, then why is Gemini Spark, MST, GK Descendant, Snowman Eater, Monarchs, and others used. The only advantage this guy gives is the fact that you can do it in 1 turn. But its not "unfair" game play since your opponent still has a chance. Lol, you can even bottomless the card to stop the loop. [/quote] The problem isn't that he himself causes a loop its what water decks tend to do in general that makes this card a problem. In you scenario replace one random card with Deep Sea Diva. so its Diva> to Atlantean armed soldier > summon pop 2 > tribute tree born frog special another one > pop 1 now at this point you have a butt ton of options going from xyz to synchros and w/e (well you had a lot of options with just one on the field in your example as well but the options are the point slash problem. I think an adequate comparison is that he is WATER's more powerful Transarchfiend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 [quote name='Kenji Inuma' timestamp='1337883035' post='5946150'] Balanced = Balanced Balanced =/= Weak Balanced =/= Strong This card is balanced because its a +0. It can net more +s with other cards, but not in a way "stated above". Scenario Opponent has 3 face-downs + 3 cards in hand You: 3 of these cards in hand + Treeborn + 2 other random cards. Normal Treeborn, Special this guy, pop 1. Special again, pop again Special again, pop again. In the end you used your own resources to take out your opponent. If that's bad, then why is Gemini Spark, MST, GK Descendant, Snowman Eater, Monarchs, and others used. The only advantage this guy gives is the fact that you can do it in 1 turn. But its not "unfair" game play since your opponent still has a chance. Lol, you can even bottomless the card to stop the loop. [/quote] Did you even read my post? It doesn't look like it, and if you did, you absorbed NOTHING. If you have three of this in hand, and streamline like that, you're an idiot, plain and simple. Why? Ronintoadin exists, and if it isn't in your grave when you're playing Frogs, you're doing it wrong. Looping this is the play of someone who doesn't even have half a clue what they're talking about. It's also funny because your post assumes this is a first turn play, and that anyone just sets 3 and passes turn 1, which is the farthest thing from the truth I've ever heard. "Bottomless stops it" is also a stupid argument. Did you know Solemn Warning stops Shi En and Quasar? Did you know Veiler stops Wind-up loops? Clearly you did not. This card rewards you for playing the game, not even playing the game correctly. That is damn terrible design. Ronintoadin makes each copy of this in your hand a +1 that hurts the opponent. Atlanteans turn this into a Synchro that nets plusses (Which is never good design, see Librarian, Formula, Goyo, and oftentimes Trishula), for a 2 card Investment. How on Earth can you even begin to call that balanced? Legitimate Scenario that isn't completely contrived: Diva, 1 this, 1 Lemuria (Optional) in hand, Opp has 1 monster Face-up, 1 set card. Diva into Armed Soldier (Optional Lemuria to boost them both to Lv. 4) Armed soldier into this Pop both of their cards Sync for 6 (or 8 with Lemuria) You just got way too much pay off for 2 cards. This card takes a similar, though less abusive for more ATK, stance to Inzektor Hornet in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 Then the problem isn't with the card in the first place, but with what comes after it. If that's the case, the "ban" all the cards that come after just like they did with Trishula. But then again, (of course) that would mean the exile of all other extra deck cards. Diva is bad card design as is because its a much better foolish to begin with. The new atlanteans as well because they net summon after summon for effects. And you call this balanced? Nope, I call that konami. THIS card. THIS 1 card presented right here, is balanced. With all current existing cards in the world, then nearly any card that nets a +0 this way would be broken. I'll still be laughing when Konami looks at this and makes it. Want to know what I classify as horrid card design? Tourguide of the Underworld Grapha Hornet SQD Diva JD Solemn Judgment Future Fusion Heavy Storm Dark Hole Black Rose DAD Krysta Super Poly and much more... Counter arguement? Solemn was made precisely because of many of these cards. Heavy is an evil that's needed, dark hole close behind. Krysta is easy to get rid of, DAD/JD can pop up and change the game entirely...in all honest, there's probably not that many cards here in YCM that can't be abused 1 way or another...And on top of that, saying that someone needs to "play the game right" is a vague a concept as is. Its a game...is there really a "right way" to play the game? But that's going onto another topic. --- BOT: I still stand on THIS card having good design. Its an efficient 1 for 1, even if its limited or semied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 [quote name='Kenji Inuma' timestamp='1337885010' post='5946174'] Then the problem isn't with the card in the first place, but with what comes after it. If that's the case, the "ban" all the cards that come after just like they did with Trishula. But then again, (of course) that would mean the exile of all other extra deck cards. Diva is bad card design as is because its a much better foolish to begin with. The new atlanteans as well because they net summon after summon for effects. And you call this balanced? Nope, I call that konami. [/quote] Designing cards while other cards exist makes it this card's problem. We're working on making well designed cards, you can't say "Oh screw whatever breaks it". Again, go to AoC with this mentality. We're not Konami. That's absolutely stupid for you to act like "Konami does it, I can too", when Konami is scheming for money =/ [quote name='Kenji Inuma' timestamp='1337885010' post='5946174'] THIS card. THIS 1 card presented right here, is balanced. With all current existing cards in the world, then nearly any card that nets a +0 this way would be broken. I'll still be laughing when Konami looks at this and makes it. Want to know what I classify as horrid card design? [/quote] Uh, no, it's not balanced. It lets you gain Plusses for playing the game, period. Treeborn? Transfers into a -1 for the opponent (AKA +1 for you) and then a +0 Monarch on top of it. Getting +1s off of hurting the opponent is in a different category than gettign +1s off of yourself. [quote name='Kenji Inuma' timestamp='1337885010' post='5946174'] Tourguide of the Underworld [b]OMG NEVER HEARD DIS B4[/b] Grapha [b]Same[/b] Hornet [b]Same[/b] SQD [b]Quasar is fine design ._.[/b] Diva [b]Diva is fine design on its own because it's support for an underdeveloped type. It will be broken in time.[/b] JD [b]NO WAI[/b] Solemn Judgment [b]Wha...? One of this is fine.[/b] Future Fusion [b]NO REALLY[/b] Heavy Storm [b]You're an idiot[/b] Dark Hole [b]You're an idiot[/b] Black Rose [b]Yes[/b] DAD [b]I never woulda thought[/b] Krysta [b]ORLY? [/b] Super Poly [b]Now you've just made me lose all faith in anything you could ever say.[/b] and much more... [/quote] Between the Captain Obvious moments and how wrong some of them are, I'm lost for words. [quote name='Kenji Inuma' timestamp='1337885010' post='5946174'] Counter arguement? Solemn was made precisely because of many of these cards. Heavy is an evil that's needed, dark hole close behind. Krysta is easy to get rid of, DAD/JD can pop up and change the game entirely...in all honest, there's probably not that many cards here in YCM that can't be abused 1 way or another...And on top of that, saying that someone needs to "play the game right" is a vague a concept as is. Its a game...is there really a "right way" to play the game? But that's going onto another topic. [/quote] Is there a metagame? Then yes, there is a right way to play the game. Arguing the broken cards exist doesn't defend this. We covered this in my first post to you =/ [quote name='Kenji Inuma' timestamp='1337885010' post='5946174'] BOT: I still stand on THIS card having good design. Its an efficient 1 for 1, even if its limited or semied. [/quote] And I stand by the OP ignoring everything you said => And saying "This card is meant to be on the banlist" is a bad designing outlook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love of Ghibli Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 [quote name='Kenji Inuma' timestamp='1337885010' post='5946174'] Want to know what I classify as horrid card design? Tourguide of the Underworld Grapha Hornet SQD Diva JD Solemn Judgment Future Fusion Heavy Storm Dark Hole Black Rose DAD Krysta Super Poly and much more... --- BOT: I still stand on THIS card having good design. Its an efficient 1 for 1, even if its limited or semied. [/quote] Okay I have to say no to a lot of this. Quasar: Its so impractical summoning conditions allow for only a handful of decks to summon it. If your opponent allows you to get Quasar or stars align to where it is possible then sure win with it lol Krystia isn't a bad design she's just fairy bossness do you how long it was before fairies got any real good support and then we get hit. Sorry to say she powerful not a bad design. Super Poly: Well I don't know the meta where you are from maybe heroes are really a threat wherever that is. In short people don't make cards to stand solely on there own. They are made with the intention of comboing with existing cards this was probably made for only existing water support (meaning no Atlanteans) or only with the thought of Atlanteans in mind forgetting about existing cards. I do it all the time if you didn't could you really say the card was realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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