Agro Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 I never said that luck and skill were removed, I only said that it's better to be lucky than good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1340685576' post='5962570'] I never said that luck and skill were removed, I only said that it's better to be lucky than good. [/quote] In some situations, yes, but overall the fact that certain people will consistently top pretty much proves you wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1340718053' post='5962644'] In some situations, yes, but overall the fact that certain people will consistently top pretty much proves you wrong. [/quote]Not at all. That isn't a statement you can "prove wrong". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-so-Radiant Arin Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1340722145' post='5962668'] Not at all. That isn't a statement you can "prove wrong". [/quote] Even I'm not this stupid. There is NO competition whatsoever; having a consistent Deck that is well built and that you know well will purely triumph over the luck aspect of any game. And if you rely on lucksacking your opponent so much, you're not really a good player. And if you still don't believe, try playing Cardfight Vanguard (Yeah, I know, I used the Cardfight card, sue me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 You can build a good deck and play well all you want. Still doesn't mean you'll top or win. You need to be lucky to do that. Whether or not you diminish it, this is still a game about probability and if luck isn't on your side you won't do as well as you should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1340723851' post='5962678'] You can build a good deck and play well all you want. Still doesn't mean you'll top or win. You need to be lucky to do that. Whether or not you diminish it, this is still a game about probability and if luck isn't on your side you won't do as well as you should. [/quote] That wasn't your point though. Your point was it's better to be lucky than to be good. Good players will be able to beat opponent's even in a seemingly worse situation, it's called outplaying someone. They also know how to deal with the sub-par hands their deck can give. Heck, unsurprisingly they'll be able to build a deck with as few dead hands as possible. Yeah, there are some game scenarios absolutely no one could win, but for the most part those better players will win because they are better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BehindTheMask Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1340685576' post='5962570'] I never said that luck and skill were removed, I only said that it's better to be lucky than good. [/quote] But that is also being terrible. Luck is bound to only do so much, before it "runs out" while being good is something you can work on and improve. Its better to be lucky AND good, rather than to be lucky than good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1340685576' post='5962570'] I never said that luck and skill were removed, I only said that it's better to be lucky than good. [/quote] So Dwarven King and Toot are the most successful players on YCM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 We're on two different pages. My argument is that if a player had the lucky draw 100% of the time, they'd win. That's obviously not going to happen unless a miracle occurs. DK and Toot may get lucky, but they'll never be able to do it 100% of the time. So of course players have to make up for that by playing well and making a deck that minimizes the chance of drawing poorly. Even then, though, you'll need luck to win, since that's what any card game is based around. You're not going to win when your only out is a BLS and you draw an MST. I stand by the statement I made about luck v skill, and if I always drew the right card, I wouldn't really care if I wasn't that good a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1340759855' post='5962886'] We're on two different pages. My argument is that if a player had the lucky draw 100% of the time, they'd win. That's obviously not going to happen unless a miracle occurs. DK and Toot may get lucky, but they'll never be able to do it 100% of the time. So of course players have to make up for that by playing well and making a deck that minimizes the chance of drawing poorly. Even then, though, you'll need luck to win, since that's what any card game is based around. You're not going to win when your only out is a BLS and you draw an MST. I stand by the statement I made about luck v skill, and if I always drew the right card, I wouldn't really care if I wasn't that good a player. [/quote] [img]http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/images/11/2008/02/faceslap.jpg[/img] What you just described is, in no way, luck. It's an extremely advanced form of CONSISTENCY where any hand can have the out you need. If you ALWAYS drew the right card, then that'd be consistency. Luck disappears if it's a 100% chance. I mean, say I'm playing Fire Emblem and I have a 100+% critical hit CHANCE, which I have seen before. There's no luck there, I [b]AM[/b] going to get a critical hit. It's not exactly the same situation, but it's close enough, considering you do things to tip luck, eventually the kind of non-luck you were spouting, in your favor like using skills and certain weapons to up the Crit Hit chance. Do you know what that's called in Yugioh? Building a consistent deck. Alternately, it's stacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 It's one thing to have a good hand. It's another thing entirely to know how to use that hand as best as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyropower Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 [quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1340760935' post='5962896'] What you just described is, in no way, luck. It's an extremely advanced form of CONSISTENCY where any hand can have the out you need. If you ALWAYS drew the right card, then that'd be consistency. Luck disappears if it's a 100% chance. I mean, say I'm playing Fire Emblem and I have a 100+% critical hit CHANCE, which I have seen before. There's no luck there, I [b]AM[/b] going to get a critical hit. It's not exactly the same situation, but it's close enough, considering you do things to tip luck, eventually the kind of non-luck you were spouting, in your favor like using skills and certain weapons to up the Crit Hit chance. Do you know what that's called in Yugioh? Building a consistent deck. Alternately, it's stacking. [/quote] This may be an old example but, another way to turn a luck-situation into a "must", is to play in a way there is no other chance that the right one. Like someone attacks me and I activate "A Hero Emerges" with the only cards in my hand being 3 copies of "Blue-Eyes White Dragon", if he is going to pick one card to special summon in my side of the field, wich one would yo expect that will be summoned? Is an example that I use when I explain to new players how to make situations in duel to outsmart luck, even if someone would rather not use any luck-based card, that doesn't mean that using apparently luck cards does not represent strategy and skill. Knowing how to orientate the factors in duel in your favor, that even are "apparently" luck, will grant you the results you want. And to clarify, I prefer skill than luck. Luck is something one cannot be training, but skill in the other hand, it IS something you obtain by practice and can improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 I honestly wish luck was perfect. Consistency was crafted so that players can artificially engineer the power of luck. Yet, luck can always be an unpleasant female, so no deck can truly achieve the consistency that can go par-to-par with luck. Even the most consistent decks will be unable to avoid the dreaded dead hand and lose because luck says otherwise. It happens to even against the best decks and the best players, but good players try to make the best with what they have and hope that they are lucky enough to go into some consistency. So in light of this conversation, since a player needs to be lucky in order to be consistent, Luck > Consistence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoAreYou? Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Look at my +1 post guise, LOOK AT IT!! OT: I always lieked Joey, so I always depended on luck. Loljk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 [quote name='DJVD' timestamp='1341508265' post='5967847'] Look at my +1 post guise, LOOK AT IT!! OT: I always lieked Joey, so I always depended on luck. Loljk [/quote] You're not funny. On topic, Skill is vastly more important that luck/consistancy as almost every Deck requires skill to perform the optical move, most importantly skill in reading stuff eg knowing when Gorz is coming and knowing roughly what backrow is what. A bad player with a good deck will when some games but when it comes to it they will never win nearly as many games as good players, e.g. the fat kid at our nationals who went 0-4 and drop playing Rabbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.