Effect Veiler vs. Forbidden Chalice

[EmpoleMew]

[img]http://images.wikia.com/yugioh/images/d/dd/EffectVeiler-ORCS-EN-SR-LE.png[/img][img]http://images.wikia.com/yugioh/images/3/3a/ForbiddenChalice-BP01-EN-C-1E.png[/img]

Lately I've found myself debating on which one I should be running. Chalice has the advantage of being unrestricted in when it can be sprung, but Veiler is more likely to still be around since it's not susceptible to MST/Heavy/Hornet. Veiler undoubtedly appears to be the better choice due to the format, but I've found myself increasingly asking "Why can't I use Veiler on my turn? At least make it during either player's Main Phase."

Discuss.

[.Rai]

Veiler, because it's a hand-trap? /thread

Still, the most amusing use of Chalice is to use it on Rush Rhino.

[Cherz]

lol, wut purpose would that serve? thatsthepointisntit?
I personally prefer chalice even though EV is a hand trap, chalice can be used during either players turn, any phase~

[Blake]

I only use Chalice over Veiler because Veiler clogs like hell. But that's only for things that need a low hand count. I use Veiler pretty much anywhere except there, unless it's some silly niche.

Still, like Chalice more, but Veiler's better.

[ihop]

Veiler should be played over Chalice in every Deck apart from Bubble Beat.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1343163294' post='5987867']
I only use Chalice over Veiler because Veiler clogs like hell. But that's only for things that need a low hand count. I use Veiler pretty much anywhere except there, unless it's some silly niche.

Still, like Chalice more, but Veiler's better.
[/quote]
I feel pretty much the same way. Veiler is a better card in terms of actual use, but I like Chalice since it has a bit more versatility in more ways than one, and you can use it as bait.

[Blake]

[quote name='Kabasaurus' timestamp='1343164620' post='5987898']
Veiler should be played over Chalice in every Deck apart from Bubble Beat.
[/quote]
Fableds can't run Veiler unless Wind-up Variant. Infernities don't like Veiler, either.

They're not Meta decks, but they still don't like Veiler.

[ihop]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1343165207' post='5987914']
Fableds can't run Veiler unless Wind-up Variant. Infernities don't like Veiler, either.

They're not Meta decks, but they still don't like Veiler.
[/quote]

I'm thinking of serious Decks here, I have no idea of Fableds but obviously you shouldn't play Veiler in Infernity unless you're an absolute moron, for the same reason you don't play it in Bubblebeat.

[Blake]

[quote name='Kabasaurus' timestamp='1343165371' post='5987919']
I'm thinking of serious Decks here, I have no idea of Fableds but obviously you shouldn't play Veiler in Infernity unless you're an absolute moron, for the same reason you don't play it in Bubblebeat.
[/quote]
So it's not ONLY in BubbleBeat. There ya go.

And I said they weren't meta, but that doesn't mean they can't be maximized, in which case, Veiler is a no.

[Kazooie]

[quote name='Kabasaurus' timestamp='1343165371' post='5987919']
I'm thinking of serious Decks here
[/quote]

Dark Worlds are a serious deck and don't run Veiler.

[ihop]

[quote name='Kanade Otonashi' timestamp='1343165515' post='5987926']
Dark Worlds are a serious deck and don't run Veiler.
[/quote]

Well, yeeeeeeeaaah.
Fair enough.

[El Majishan]

[quote name='Kanade Otonashi' timestamp='1343165515' post='5987926']
Dark Worlds are a serious deck and don't run Veiler.
[/quote]

Because they play Dragged Down and Skill Drain.

[Blake]

[quote name='Le Magician' timestamp='1343165891' post='5987934']
Because they play Dragged Down and Skill Drain.
[/quote]
... Exactly. They, like BubbleBeat, can have easily clogged hands. That's the point.

[El Majishan]

exactly. Veiler depends on the deck you're running.

[Synchronized]

I like Fiendish Chain and I am disappoint that it was not included in the argument here.

As I've said in multiple threads, Veiler is a necessity, but I don't like it at all. The fact that you're essentially forced to run 2-3 Veiler is not a good thing, because it's the only way to keep the damn format somewhat balanced. Chalice would be much better if cards like Tour Guide, Rescue Rabbit, and the likes weren't running around @3.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

[quote name='- Neo -' timestamp='1343168658' post='5987972']
I like Fiendish Chain and I am disappoint that it was not included in the argument here.

As I've said in multiple threads, Veiler is a necessity, but I don't like it at all. The fact that you're essentially forced to run 2-3 Veiler is not a good thing, because it's the only way to keep the damn format somewhat balanced. Chalice would be much better if cards like Tour Guide, Rescue Rabbit, and the likes weren't running around @3.
[/quote]
Chain is slower and susceptible to removal, though it does last longer (if it stays) and can be used to stop attacks. However, it doesn't work as a direct comparison.

[Synchronized]

[quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1343170815' post='5987997']
Chain is slower and susceptible to removal, though it does last longer (if it stays) and can be used to stop attacks. However, it doesn't work as a direct comparison.
[/quote]

Believe it not, that attack stopping has come in hand significantly for me on multiple occasions.

[This Account is Unplayable]

Skill Drain.

[Lonk]

Jurracs prefer Chalice over Veiler anyday.

[ranma1/2]

pick one, side the other? i'll just keep swapping both depending on what i'm up against.

honestly, i like veiler more because it's a surprise plot twist, but i think chalice is faster.

[Miror B]

Why is veiler more versatile when the only thing it has over Chalice is MST immunity?

[This Account is Unplayable]

[quote name='Miror B.' timestamp='1343222523' post='5988526']
Why is veiler more versatile when the only thing it has over Chalice is MST immunity?
[/quote]

It has Lyla immunity too.

And can be used on turn 1. Which is its biggest selling point.

And it's a level 1 Tuner.

Heck, at worst it's a meat shield.

[Βyakuya]

Veiler cause it's in the hand vs. the field. That simple. There are instances where one can be run over the other, but a majority of decks do this instead.[/thread]

[Mehmani]

Veiler, in all decks except Bubblebeat, or perhaps as was said earlier, Dark World. Veiler's hand-trap status grants it immunities that Chalice doesn't have. It's good in a pinch.

[Lonk]

[quote name='Botvinnik' timestamp='1343225427' post='5988558']
Veiler, in all decks except Bubblebeat, or perhaps as was said earlier, Dark World and Jurracs. Veiler's hand-trap status grants it immunities that Chalice doesn't have. It's good in a pinch.
[/quote]

Fixed.

Though Veiler is more versatile than Chalice because it is searchable, LIGHT, Level 1 Tuner and a Hand-Trap. That is 4 distinct advantages it has. Chalice can be used any turn though.