Wicked God's Combined Form

[Kyng's Old Account]

The Egyptian God Cards, [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Obelisk_the_Tormentor"]Obelisk the Tormentor[/url], [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Slifer_the_Sky_Dragon"]Slifer the Sky Dragon[/url], and [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/The_Winged_Dragon_of_Ra"]The Winged Dragon of Ra[/url], have [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/The_Creator_God_of_Light,_Horakhty"]The Creator God of Light, Horakhty[/url].

The Sacred Beasts, [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Uria,_Lord_of_Searing_Flames"]Uria, Lord of Searing Flames[/url], [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Hamon,_Lord_of_Striking_Thunder"]Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder[/url], and [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Raviel,_Lord_of_Phantasms"]Raviel, Lord of Phantasms[/url], have [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Armityle_the_Chaos_Phantom"]Armityle the Chaos Phantom[/url].

And now, The Wicked Gods, [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/The_Wicked_Dreadroot"]The Wicked Dreadroot[/url], [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/The_Wicked_Eraser"]The Wicked Eraser[/url], and [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/The_Wicked_Avatar"]The Wicked Avatar[/url], have The Wicked Diuval:
[hr]
[center][img]http://i.imgur.com/aRPXg.jpg[/img][/center]
[hr][spoiler=Effect]Must be Special Summoned by attaching "The Wicked Eraser", "The Wicked Dreadroot", and "The Wicked Avatar" from your Graveyard (you do not attach them from the field). This is treated as an Xyz Summon. This card cannot attack during the turn it is Xyz Summoned. Xyz Materials attached to this card are banished when detached. Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card; this card gains one of the following effects:
• The ATK and DEF of this card are each 1000 points higher than the highest face-up monster's original ATK on the field (except "The Wicked Diuval").
• Halve the ATK and DEF of all monsters on the field, except this card.
• When this card is destroyed and sent to the Graveyard, destroy all cards on the field.[/spoiler]

This is, in simple layman's terms, my attempt to make the Harbinger for the Wicked Gods. I love these guys so much I just couldn't resist.

However, I want to improve this card. So, I want tons of CnC to improve it. Any Adv. Clause worthy critique will be appreciated!

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

[quote name='Kyng' timestamp='1350342099' post='6045248']
The Egyptian God Cards, [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Obelisk_the_Tormentor"]Obelisk the Tormentor[/url], [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Slifer_the_Sky_Dragon"]Slifer the Sky Dragon[/url], and [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/The_Winged_Dragon_of_Ra"]The Winged Dragon of Ra[/url], have [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/The_Creator_God_of_Light,_Horakhty"]The Creator God of Light, Horakhty[/url].

The Sacred Beasts, [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Uria,_Lord_of_Searing_Flames"]Uria, Lord of Searing Flames[/url], [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Hamon,_Lord_of_Striking_Thunder"]Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder[/url], and [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Raviel,_Lord_of_Phantasms"]Raviel, Lord of Phantasms[/url], have [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Armityle_the_Chaos_Phantom"]Armityle the Chaos Phantom[/url].

And now, The Wicked Gods, [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/The_Wicked_Dreadroot"]The Wicked Dreadroot[/url], [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/The_Wicked_Eraser"]The Wicked Eraser[/url], and [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/The_Wicked_Avatar"]The Wicked Avatar[/url], have The Wicked Diuval:
[hr]
[center][img]http://i.imgur.com/aRPXg.jpg[/img][/center]
[hr][spoiler=Effect]Must be Special Summoned by attaching "The Wicked Eraser", "The Wicked Dreadroot", and "The Wicked Avatar" from your Graveyard (you do not attach them from the field). This is treated as an Xyz Summon. This card cannot attack during the turn it is Xyz Summoned. Xyz Materials attached to this card are banished when detached. Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card; this card gains one of the following effects:
• The ATK and DEF of this card are each 1000 points higher than the highest face-up monster's original ATK on the field (except "The Wicked Diuval").
• Halve the ATK and DEF of all monsters on the field, except this card.
• When this card is destroyed and sent to the Graveyard, destroy all cards on the field.[/spoiler]

This is, in simple layman's terms, my attempt to make the Harbinger for the Wicked Gods. I love these guys so much I just couldn't resist.

However, I want to improve this card. So, I want tons of CnC to improve it. Any Adv. Clause worthy critique will be appreciated!
[/quote]


Well the worst problem about this card is the effs gained by detaching.

Simply put, the first part wont stack with itself, meaning any further detachments will be pointless.

The 2nd part is the only one that is reusable but screws the first effect over because it's weakening will in turn weaken it (until something stronger hit the field of course)

Finally the 3rd part, like the first wont stake.

To fix this what I would do is simply detach all three from it.

Just my thoughts, hoped they helped.

[Shinobi Phoenix]

Original Text:
[quote]Must be Special Summoned by attaching "The Wicked Eraser", "The Wicked Dreadroot", and "The Wicked Avatar" from your Graveyard (you do not attach them from the field). This is treated as an Xyz Summon. This card cannot attack during the turn it is Xyz Summoned. Xyz Materials attached to this card are banished when detached. Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card; this card gains one of the following effects:
• The ATK and DEF of this card are each 1000 points higher than the highest face-up monster's original ATK on the field (except "The Wicked Diuval").
• Halve the ATK and DEF of all monsters on the field, except this card.
• When this card is destroyed and sent to the Graveyard, destroy all cards on the field.[/quote]


I'm not quite sure what to cover first and this will get long since I have to explain the logic of it. I will ignore any OCG changes until we know what this card can and SHOULD be doing, then worry about fixing the text after that.


[b][u]First Issue:[/u][/b]
I disagree with the previous poster, because the first effect obviously isn't supposed to be cumulative, you do it one time. Also, the effects aren't necessarily redundant with the second effect because it will still matter if this card attacks directly (which is easily possible) since it will still reflect the ATK when calculating damage and still be looking at that very alive monster. It is redundant however in basic battles as it would always be higher even if you halve the ATK's. The previous poster also forgot that this card will only EVER be 1000 stronger than the strongest monster and thus unless you also control the strongest monster, the only damage you will do fighting your opponent is 1000. That's basic math. Your opponent has a 4000 monster, your card becomes 5000, that's still only 1000 damage, you half the ATK, opponent has 2000, you have 3000, still only 1000 damage. The damage does not change regardless of the stat change [b]UNLESS[/b] you control the strongest monster, in which this entire thing is moot anyway.

All that said, if you intend for it to be permanent (as in a continuous effect), how are you going to prevent the infinite loop that would happen if The Devil's Avatar (The Wicked Avatar) is on the field as well? They would both look at each other and raise by 1000... until infinity. It would be rather lazy writing to just make it disable Avatar or not look at Avatar, but Avatar would still look at it. Maybe for fairness and preventing problems, it would be best to make the first Overlay Effect into a Trigger, NOT a Continuous. That also means changing the stats to 0/0 or whatever you decide on (and I would have started 0/0 instead of ?000/?000 anyway as there's no base continuous effect that the card is looking at for its stats).

Prehaps even rework the whole card to keep the ????/???? stats but its ATK/DEF looks at its own # of Overlay Units (as in 3 = 3000 ATK) and then use the Overlay Effects to regularly field advantage.

Example:
[quote]"This card's original ATK and DEF are equal to the number of Xyz Materials attached to this card times 1000. Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card; This card gains one of the following effects:
- This card gains ATK and DEF equal to the highest face-up monster's original ATK on the field." [i](Possibly include "[u]until your next standby Phase[/u].")[/i][/quote]


[b][u]Second Issue:[/u][/b]
Halving the ATK/DEF of the other monsters on the field is fine, as long as you understand the way you wrote that makes it a trigger effect (because you are detaching Overlay Units for it), [b]not[/b] continuous. You may have copy pasted the text, but that doesn't mean you've retained its mechanic because your card is activating it differently and you have to reflect that by changing your text. If you are making it continuous it should say "While this card is face-up on the field, halve the ATK and DEF of all other monsters."

In fact, that effect for your card (out of fairness and preventing mechanical issues) should be Trigger instead of Continuous anyway. Just think of it as a big Black Feather Gale of the Hurricane, instead of just copy-pasting Dreadroot. It might be rather overpowered if you are 1000 ATK higher (not continuous though) and always halving every other monster. It forces your opponent to HAVE to blow it up to get rid of it and that's just bad gameplay, there's already too much of "blowing up things" in this game.



[b][u]Third Issue:[/u][/b]
The third effect doesn't work since it would be dead before you can detach anything (you have the trigger-point as *card must die to activate* so you can't detach it at that point. If you word it *if it has ORU when it dies, activate this effect*, that would work, but that wouldn't be at all how you wrote it originally and it wouldn't fit in with your *choose one of following effects* scheme, you'd have to detach the effect from that setup and type that in the earlier part of the card. If you word it that you would detach during your turn and it last as a static effect until some period of time, than that would be fine, but all it would do it prevent your opponent from trying to kill it. Not very effective at all, especially if your opponent has a near empty field and doesn't care or you don't have any ORU's left or you simply didn't use the effect (it's also a Spell Speed 1, so you couldn't activate it during your opponent's turn anyway). I understand you just copy-pasted the effect text of the original 3 Devil God cards, but that doesn't at all give it the same effects, you need to do a lot of re-writing.

I'm afraid your card needs a crazy amount of reworking to work the way you seem to want to intend it to. Sorry to be so forthright, but you said you wanted help, so I gave it to you hard and real. I wouldn't tell you anything that I wouldn't put myself through working on my cards alone.



Card design is more complex than it looks if you want to do it right and that's before you even correct your grammar.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

[quote name='Shinobi Phoenix' timestamp='1350361701' post='6045532']
Original Text:



I'm not quite sure what to cover first and this will get long since I have to explain the logic of it. I will ignore any OCG changes until we know what this card can and SHOULD be doing, then worry about fixing the text after that.


[b][u]First Issue:[/u][/b]
I disagree with the previous poster, because the first effect obviously isn't supposed to be cumulative, you do it one time. Also, the effects aren't necessarily redundant with the second effect because it will still matter if this card attacks directly (which is easily possible) since it will still reflect the ATK when calculating damage and still be looking at that very alive monster. It is redundant however in basic battles as it would always be higher even if you halve the ATK's. The previous poster also forgot that this card will only EVER be 1000 stronger than the strongest monster and thus unless you also control the strongest monster, the only damage you will do fighting your opponent is 1000. That's basic math. Your opponent has a 4000 monster, your card becomes 5000, that's still only 1000 damage, you half the ATK, opponent has 2000, you have 3000, still only 1000 damage. The damage does not change regardless of the stat change [b]UNLESS[/b] you control the strongest monster, in which this entire thing is moot anyway

[b][i][size="4"]I'm going to disagree with you as I did not "forget" any of the effects when I reviewed. I'm well aware that this card will always have 1000Atk more then any monster but a weakening is still a weakening no matter how you look at it.[/size][/i][/b]

All that said, if you intend for it to be permanent (as in a continuous effect), how are you going to prevent the infinite loop that would happen if The Devil's Avatar (The Wicked Avatar) is on the field as well? They would both look at each other and raise by 1000... until infinity. It would be rather lazy writing to just make it disable Avatar or not look at Avatar, but Avatar would still look at it. Maybe for fairness and preventing problems, it would be best to make the first Overlay Effect into a Trigger, NOT a Continuous. That also means changing the stats to 0/0 or whatever you decide on (and I would have started 0/0 instead of ?000/?000 anyway as there's no base continuous effect that the card is looking at for its stats).

[b][i][size="4"]It can retain it's effects without blatantly changing the whole thing. All he/she needs to do is add a Clause that stats that it can be the Only "The Wicked" monster on the field. That would prevent itself from being summoned if the user controls a different "The Wicked" monster. And yes I know there are monsters that have "The Wicked" in their name aside from these three but odds are your not going to be having those monsters in your Deck anyways.[/size][/i][/b]


Prehaps even rework the whole card to keep the ????/???? stats but its ATK/DEF looks at its own # of Overlay Units (as in 3 = 3000 ATK) and then use the Overlay Effects to regularly field advantage.



Example:



[b][u]Second Issue:[/u][/b]
Halving the ATK/DEF of the other monsters on the field is fine, as long as you understand the way you wrote that makes it a trigger effect (because you are detaching Overlay Units for it), [b]not[/b] continuous. You may have copy pasted the text, but that doesn't mean you've retained its mechanic because your card is activating it differently and you have to reflect that by changing your text. If you are making it continuous it should say "While this card is face-up on the field, halve the ATK and DEF of all other monsters."

In fact, that effect for your card (out of fairness and preventing mechanical issues) should be Trigger instead of Continuous anyway. Just think of it as a big Black Feather Gale of the Hurricane, instead of just copy-pasting Dreadroot. It might be rather overpowered if you are 1000 ATK higher (not continuous though) and always halving every other monster. It forces your opponent to HAVE to blow it up to get rid of it and that's just bad gameplay, there's already too much of "blowing up things" in this game.



[b][u]Third Issue:[/u][/b]
The third effect doesn't work since it would be dead before you can detach anything (you have the trigger-point as *card must die to activate* so you can't detach it at that point. If you word it *if it has ORU when it dies, activate this effect*, that would work, but that wouldn't be at all how you wrote it originally and it wouldn't fit in with your *choose one of following effects* scheme, you'd have to detach the effect from that setup and type that in the earlier part of the card. If you word it that you would detach during your turn and it last as a static effect until some period of time, than that would be fine, but all it would do it prevent your opponent from trying to kill it. Not very effective at all, especially if your opponent has a near empty field and doesn't care or you don't have any ORU's left or you simply didn't use the effect (it's also a Spell Speed 1, so you couldn't activate it during your opponent's turn anyway). I understand you just copy-pasted the effect text of the original 3 Devil God cards, but that doesn't at all give it the same effects, you need to do a lot of re-writing.

I'm afraid your card needs a crazy amount of reworking to work the way you seem to want to intend it to. Sorry to be so forthright, but you said you wanted help, so I gave it to you hard and real. I wouldn't tell you anything that I wouldn't put myself through working on my cards alone.



Card design is more complex than it looks if you want to do it right and that's before you even correct your grammar.
[/quote]

Bold Ital are my replies.

[Sander]

[quote=♥ D.A._Siegfried ♥]I'm going to disagree with you as I did not "forget" any of the effects when I reviewed. I'm well aware that this card will always have 1000Atk more then any monster but a weakening is still a weakening no matter how you look at it.[/quote]

How is it weakening itself with the halving effect if it can only ever deal 1000 battle damage in the first place?

Anyways, card is badly designed. Why? Because a beater that is so god awfully easy to Summon is perfect card design, no? No, really, Foolish Burial, Armageddon Knight, Dark Grepher, Monster Gate, Reasoning / other cards that mill aka the whole Lightsworn Archetype can get the cards into the Graveyard so fast that it's not even funny.

[Sora1499]

I'd have to agree with Zanda on this one. It acquires exceedingly (pardon the pun) stronger effects than its Wicked Counterparts, all 3 of which can be used. Not to mention the fact that there are numerous cards that mill, and an even greater number that mill DARK monsters specifically. This would end up being summoned ALOT. If this card were to be released, the Wicked Gods would have to be limited each to balance it out, which is the exact opposite of support.

[Sander]

[quote name='sora1499' timestamp='1350423004' post='6046121']
If this card were to be released, the Wicked Gods would have to be limited each to balance it out, which is the exact opposite of support.
[/quote]

Lololololol, no. If something has to get hit, it's this card, not the materials that it uses. And note that I didn't say that the card was broken, I was saying that it was too easy to get out. Other than that, the card is perfectly balanced when it comes to the effects that it gains with each material detached. But removing the Summoning condition from it would make the card bad etc. etc. Really, I'd have to suggest to scrap this and any future ideas that contain a Summoning condition like this.