Hey look guys i made the greatest card evah!!!11!! :D :D :D [Single]

[kordeleski]

[quote name='Archlord Sora' timestamp='1351566976' post='6056930']
@Kordeleski
Dark Worlds and Fables don't activate their effects if they were discarded via a cost bro... I don;t know what planet you live on, but in our metagame, people would rather turn 2 level 4s into an Xyz instead of incorporating a comparably dead draw level 1 tuner for a level 9 synchro. And it really isn't broken: the cost is pretty hefty for a +0 destruction, and your scrap dragon scenario is very specific. You haven't really given us any reason to believe that this card is broken, it's just a decent level 9 synchro that our game could benefit from right now.
[/quote]

I realize that Dark worlds do not. I didn't think of the ability as a cost, but fabled do activate as a cost.

From the rulings page of the wikia

[quote]If "The Fabled Cerburrel", "Fabled Lurrie", "Fabled Krus", "The Fabled Catsith", or "The Fabled Ganashia" is discarded from the hand to the Graveyard as a cost, then its effect does not miss the timing, and will activate after the current Chain fully resolves.[/quote]

Second in both my case I do not have 2 level 4s I either have 1 level 2, 3 and 4 monsters (which I can get out on the field without even using my normal summon), or 3 level 3 monsters (almost equally as easy) depending on the deck. I normally summon zenmaines when the second deck is involved, as I said it is almost never worth it to summon mist wurm unless I am going for game (in which case I might still have better options than Wurm).

Finally this card copies 4 different cards (One of which a staple is the more broken effect) and is only limited by 1) Discarding a card, and 2) Having a monster, spell, or trap (depending on what you are doing) in your hand, or already in a players graveyard.

I think other examples would get it across better.

Opponent summons Judgement dragon - Oh you were gonna use your effect *discards and banishes a monster* not any more
BLS - Nope
Acid golem - ha
Dark armed dragon - dont think so
Foolish burial hornet - Nah

Basically any boss monster won't even stay on the field, and all this guy HAS to do is discard a card and either have a card he can chain or take a -1.

If it really came down to it and they attack him with a stronger monster while you have an empty field he can suicide with his own effect.

And if they are unlucky enough to have to top deck and they get a trap, or a monster with an Ignition effect they are probably taking 2800 to the face next turn.

Guess I should point out that he is a suped up D.D. crow every time he uses his effect. and D.D. crow can do a lot for discarding a card.

[Sora1499]

@Kordeleski
I see your point, but the fact remains that you have to -2 before you can -1 the opponent. This means you have to sacrifice a backrow card or another monster AND a card from the hand... Not very appealing if this card gets d.p.'d, soul taker'd, book of moon'd, etc. Although, you do raise a good point... Perhaps Toyo should make the card type-dependent effect (the scrap dragon-esque one, the slight burn, or the draw) only go off during your turn. That prevents abuse and still makes it able to stop graveyard combos in their tracks.

[Alpakha]

@Kord Are you saying that this stops JD/BLS/DAD with it's BANISHING effect? It can stop boss monsters but only with the destruction, which is still once per turn. If your opponent summons BLS, you can't just go "OH OH WAIT. Imma banish your monster so you can't summon it". That would be a huge misplay and a super nooby move. Only way to prevent their summons to too do it beforehand, then it's a guessing game. You don't know if they have BLS/JD/Etc. Sure this thing can easily destroy bosses, but vice versa. You're making it seem impossible to beat. It's still vulnerable to boat loads of stuff.

[kordeleski]

That would be considerably more balanced.

My major problem with it other than that is it's not just "new Trish" it's "super new Trish". I honestly feel it should lose at least 200 ATK, but that is less out of balance more out of deferance.

No I am saying after they summon you can use his banish effect to banish a monster and kill it before they trigger the effect.

Sure you have to kill a card, but if you can chain an mst to kill another trap you take a 0 instead of a -1, and if you can't you killed a card and stopped what is most likely their strongest monster (and possibly their only card that can threaten this monster).

[Alpakha]

[quote name='kordeleski' timestamp='1351569721' post='6056965']
Sure you have to kill a card, but if you can chain an mst to kill another trap you take a 0 instead of a -1
[/quote]

By this logic, scrap dragon is broken... which it's not.

Anyway, you're still making this seem impossible to kill. It's still vulnerable to spell/traps. Example: Rageki Break (yes i seen people run this), mind control, soul taker, enemy controller, book of moon, dark hole, forbidden lance/chalice/dress, etc.

[kordeleski]

1 scrap dragon is an ignition effect not a quick effect. That makes all the difference in this situation.
2 he is not only scrap dragon'ing, but crow'ing every time he uses this effect.
3 All monster that don't sport built in protection have those same inherent weaknesses. You cannot say a card that may or may not be broken is not broken because smashing ground.

Finally I was not kidding if they start top decking and they don't draw smashing, or other removal spells (or a monster with an effect that removes upon summon) and there is a card in your hand and a monster in your hand/graveyard they can't do anything as you will scrap dragon in their end phase (or in response to summon for monsters) and kill the card they drew before they can use it's effect.

[Alpakha]

Yes, this card's destruction eff is way better than scrap drag's. I'm just saying that the situation you set up (with mst and stuff) is situational and doesn;t make the card broken.

You're thinking of having this card LATE game, when everyone exhausted their materials. Having (almost) any boss monster late game is basically a win for you. That isn't special to this card.

[kordeleski]

[quote name='AznKvn' timestamp='1351570886' post='6056976']
Yes, this card's destruction eff is way better than scrap drag's. I'm just saying that the situation you set up (with mst and stuff) is situational and doesn;t make the card broken.

You're thinking of having this card LATE game, when everyone exhausted their materials. Having (almost) any boss monster late game is basically a win for you. That isn't special to this card.
[/quote]

But you don't need MST for it to be useful. I am saying this is a card that basically kills nearly any boss monster with a mitagatable cost. Sure you will not always be able to turn that -1 into a 0 or higher (For those stars align situations), but that is possible, AND the important part is there are few monsters that can stop this (especially during your turn when you can't use Veiler).

boss monsters are usually either win more or turn around cards, but this one is both, and then some. BTW improving on a Staple is hard to do while keeping the card balanced (that's why they are staples).

[Alpakha]

Look dude, I haven't been disagreeing with you (not directly). I'm just saying you're putting it in situations where it would be o'ped no matter what. You bring this out mid/early-game it won't last long enough to kill you. I been in MANY situations where they got out their boss and were winning, but still lost.

Why toyo did you have to cause such a controversy... I'm tired, someone elese continue this conversation/argument...

[kordeleski]

If I can make a lot of situation where it is "Op no matter what" what does that make you think.

The only scenario where I can see this card not getting the last laugh is they had no hand.

Anyway I am tired of arguing. You make it sound like this card cannot be over powered because if you run soul taker you will draw it 100% of the time.

[Alpakha]

Well you make it sound like it's effect have no costs...

[kordeleski]

It's effect has a cost, but it can be a 0 most turns. In fact during your turn his effect will almost always be a 0 so long as there is a monster in the grave.

activate a card: chain this effect destroying the activated card and an opponents card.

[宇佐見 蓮子@C94]

The amount of bickering is outrageous here.
Anyways, I changed the effect slightly. You might want to re-read the card effect now.

[Shinobi Phoenix]

[quote name='Archlord Sora' timestamp='1351566976' post='6056930']
@Kordeleski
Dark Worlds and Fables don't activate their effects if they were discarded via a cost bro...
[/quote]


Actually, I explained this to you in [u]your own thread[/u]. In your [b]Volt[/b] set in explaining cost vs effect (which was the reason none of your Volts worked), my exact example was the difference between Dark World and The DRG (Fabled in TCG). Dark World can't be activated by cost (because they specifically say "by effect"), but Fabled don't care because they only want to be discarded (as long as it says discarded instead of "sent to the Graveyard").

This is why Graceful Charity was in EVERY Dark World deck.


Anyway, this is here nor there about this card directly. Yes, it will activate Fabled, no that's not important or needing changes just for this one thing. Other than this, I wasn't even going to comment on this card.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

[img]http://i47.tinypic.com/b4vn5t.jpg[/img]

I will now dissect this seemingly out of place monstrosity.

Let's start with the "obvious". It's a Level 9 DARK Dragon-Type monster. I see "Pulsar/REDRUM" plays immediately, especially if you summon the card successfully. My red-flag is "waving" but not that bad...yet.

[quote]
1 Tuner + 2 or more non-Tuner Monsters
[/quote]

So you're argument was the fact that decks that are able to "spam" Level 9s are "dead" when that's not exactly the case. While Glow-Up Bulb and such cards are no longer viable except in Traditional, the other reason said decks died off in OCG and TCG is because they don't have any viably broken targets (Trishula) that they can abuse. The ability to Synch into 9 is still legitimately there, but with Mist Wurm being the only "viable" generic target, it's usually not worth it. Still, can't judge just yet. I need to review the effect in order to see if "Generic" Synchro Summon would be broken or not for this card.

[quote]
When this card is Synchro Summoned: You can Banish up to 3 cards from either Player's Graveyard.
[/quote]

Pseudo Trishula effect that kills most if not all Graveyard oriented plays. That makes the card actually worth playing especially since it's from "either Player's Graveyard" allowing you to reap off some benefits or picking off problem/recurring cards. With just this effect, it's a very nice card and doesn't really need anything more.

[quote]
Once per turn: You can Discard 1 Card; Banish 1 Card from either Player's Graveyard and apply the following Effect(s) based on the type of the Card Banished.
[/quote]

This...can't be good...

[quote]
●Monster: Destroy 1 Card on both player's side of the field.
[/quote]

Discard + Banish Monster = Scrap Dragon effect. I can now reap the benefits of Necroface, Fabled monsters and Eclipse Wyvern. Fableds Chaos can potently go into Generic Level 9 Synchros, and adding a Chaos Dragon "engine" or beat down card isn't that difficult to do either. Granted, Wyvern will probably not be used, but other cards such as the Fabled Discard effects can be done so that you turn that "discard" cost from a -s into a +s and being a Pulsar Target means that this card can be a recurring beater, as well as abuse Pulsar's Special Summon effect should you have one to use. It's already doing too much...And I just realized this, you can also tech in a D.D. Scout Plane for additional +s. It's DARK, it's a recurring banishing monster, and allows for Gachi Plays as well as Pulsar Fodder. Get 1 into the Grave (which shouldn't be that much of a task) and you have a free-be monster that can be used as multiple types of fodder such as "Tributing" for Pulsar Dragon, Synching for other stuff, relaunching this Scrap Dragon effect, etc, etc, etc.

[quote]
●Spell: Inflict 400 Damage to your opponent for each DARK Monster on the field.
[/quote]

Burn effect for DARKs. You're already granted a 400 Burn since this card is DARK and it can "accumilate" from there into higher numbers. Granted that you'll most likely have REDRUM, it's 800 burn "constant". Given the Scout Planes I've stated above, as unwitty a card and with the "potency" of being a Dead Draw, Pulsar says otherwise and makes it add another 400 burn should your opponent be stupid enough to let it on the field.

[quote]
●Trap: Both players Draw 1 Card and Discard 1 Card at the End Phase of this turn.
[/quote]

Omg...really? Even if it's "at the End Phase" it's still a draw and a discard. You can now possibly tech Dark Worlds and such. Now this card is capable of doing more than just it's share and is just "broken" in design. It honestly didn't need these additional -1 -> +1 effects since it's very first effect was potent enough. Now...it's a card that does what it does, and then some more.

[Sora1499]

@Chance
You still forget that it requires you to give up some hand advantage as well as a backrow in order to use the effect. This could leave you vulnerable, and in our meta, even 2 turns of defenseless can become game. Although I do see where you're going with Chaos Dragons (dammit Konami!!!) so perhaps Toyo could add in a clause like "This card can only be special summoned by synchro summon." As for the DW abuse you've mentioned, personally, I'd rather use Gates's effect than this. Besides, what kind of shitty DW deck techs in level 1 tuners?

[Strider Tigerwolf]

I'm not forgetting the advantage. I'm stating it. Fabled's + Chaos Dragon absolutely love this card since it fits so well with both and a deck can be made around this card for maximum capacity. The discard and banishment in turn, really don't become costs at all but additional effects from which you can +s instead of -s. The only 2 Dark World cards you'll even want in this type of deck IF you want to run them would probably be:

2 Graphas
2 Snows
2 Browws
3 Dealings
1 Gateway (not Gates)

I'll have a build ready to show you what I mean.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/5DRbr.png[/img]

It's rough, but it's around. 2 Browws since draws are what you want, 1 Snow for needed search. 2 Graphas for recuring plays. Raven at 2, Teched to Scout Planes for another recurring monster, Triple Pulsar targets being: RedRum and Synchro DARK Dragons, most notably Dark End, (Trishula=Proxy This guy), and void Ogre (since you can get handles with the deck and even then still be in a good position and then rack +s the turns after. It's mostly control, Tourguides give access to Xyz/Grapha Plays, and staples (didn't find room for reborn, but again, it's a rough build) and Level Eater for Teching into Graoha (Level 7) + Level Eater + Level 1 Tuner (Chawa...which could be run at 2).

Does it look inconsistent, probably. But then again, I did say it was a rough build.

[Sora1499]

@Chance
Test it.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

I'm online if you want me to

[Sora1499]

Awesome. What's your user?

[D.D. King32]

Mine is a bit broken but it is fair.[attachment=35626:untitled.bmp]

[宇佐見 蓮子@C94]

3 pages..? Well, at least I'm getting attention so all is well.

[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(251, 253, 254)]FIXES: This card can only be Special Summoned by Synchro Summon[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(251, 253, 254)]....Discard 1 Card, Banish 1 card from your OPPONENT's graveyard...[/background][/size][/font][/color]