Sora1499 Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 You heard the title! I've made an all-new Rescue monster (as in rabbit and cat), that hopefully isn't quite as broken as its two predecessors.[spoiler='Here it is'][img]http://i.imgur.com/qRQ3y.jpg[/img][/spoiler] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 It's... not "as broken" as the others, but it's still the same story. It makes easy Formulas and Rank 2s. This isn't an inherent problem, seeing as that gives you 2 Synchros and 4 Rank 2s, but it's open to the exact same abuse that every other card of its sort suffers from. It's a costless, deck thinning +1 that makes Xyz/Synchros stupidly easily for what it does. Not just that, with how easy it is to Special Summon modern day, pulling out Spore + Doppelwarrior can lead to assorted crazy Xyz. At that, cards like Constellar Hawwa and Schet (While not really the best choices to run enough of to abuse this) exist, and can make plays with this just completely insane. It's also an instant Cyber Valley from the deck, among other things. This card needs to Banish itself, rather than send to grave, needs to negate the effects of what it Summons akin to Debris Dragon, and, while I'm not sure how to word it, make it so that any Monster its used as material for the summon of must be of the same attribute as the cards summoned. Even then, I'm sure there's abuse I'm overlooking, but at least it's better than it is now. As long as the extra deck exists, cards like these are busted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted November 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Oh balls. I made it "level 2 or lower", I meant to make it just level 2. Otherwise you could just rekindle 2 laval dual slashers, splash this, go into formula, and quasar. Will edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
宇佐見 蓮子@C94 Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 It's certainly not broken, but it's heading towards the "Toilet Paper" category. I don't know which decks actually run Level 2 Effect monsters nowadays. I guess it's a free Gachi and Dark Mist, (or a Level 4 Synchro) but that's about it. But as it stands, I have no idea how to make it better without breaking it. So yeah, me no gusta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Here's a list of problem targets that exist as Level 2 alone: Atlantean Heavy Infantry Cherry Inmato Deep Sea Diva (Though less so than others) Dragunity Phalanx Dragunity Aklys Esper Girl Gale Dogra Gishki Abyss + Gishki Vision Hero Kid Krebons Naturia Pineapple Pain Painter Plaguespreader Zombie Prior of the Ice Barrier Psychic Jumper Quillbolt Hedgehog Ronintoadin Slushy Swap Frog T.G. Striker The Agent of Mystery - Earth The Calculator Unifrog Not to mention silly things like Sea Otter + Tree Otter, though that's nothing too serious. I don't even think I listed everything there was to list, and some of these have clearly superior methods to using them or bringing them out... But that doesn't change the fact that the abuse is there. You have to be more restrictive with something like this or it can gowild in no time.[quote name='★Toyo-tan★' timestamp='1352002081' post='6060706'] It's certainly not broken, but it's heading towards the "Toilet Paper" category. I don't know which decks actually run Level 2 Effect monsters nowadays. I guess it's a free Gachi and Dark Mist, (or a Level 4 Synchro) but that's about it. But as it stands, I have no idea how to make it better without breaking it. So yeah, me no gusta. [/quote] It's definitely closer to broken than Toilet Paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neutrality Man Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Two stipulations that instantly remove the abusiveness to all monsters with Rescue in the name. "...may not be used as a Synchro Material for a Synchro Summon." and "may not be used as an XYZ Material for an XYZ Summon" Really, that's the only way to minimize the Rescue monsters' abusiveness. Let the summoned creatures have their effects but remove one or both of THOSE two plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love of Ghibli Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Nope still bad even with restrictions especially if I can get Earth and Striker out at the same time. I'll have my Hyperion drop and I'll just use the T.G. Creature Swap and proceed for hilarious shenanigans. I'm never really for special summoning anything straight from the deck it just sounds abusive at inception. Even Hydrogeddon was pushing it for me and then they came out with those Evolzars and that's when I knew there was a problem. The rescue series has never been balanced in the sense that no matter what you target they still just grab cards from the deck for no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted November 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 @Reborn I've negated the effects of the monsters summoned with Dog, so the majority of the cards you just listed are not a big problem. It also now only says "Level 2" so you can't spam formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 [quote name='Archlord Sora' timestamp='1352043293' post='6060936'] @Reborn I've negated the effects of the monsters summoned with Dog, so the majority of the cards you just listed are not a big problem. It also now only says "Level 2" so you can't spam formula. [/quote] I already knew you made it only level 2, hence why I listed level 2s. Negating effects doesn't even do enough. Tour Guide is amazing because it basically Foolish Burials Sangan and other targets for a Rank 3. This thing does the same, so most of the cards listed are STILL problem targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 [quote name='Reborn Black' timestamp='1352048269' post='6060990'] I already knew you made it only level 2, hence why I listed level 2s. Negating effects doesn't even do enough. Tour Guide is amazing because it basically Foolish Burials Sangan and other targets for a Rank 3. This thing does the same, so most of the cards listed are STILL problem targets. [/quote] Apart from arguably Phalanz, Plague, Heavy Infantry, Ronintoadin and Pineapple most of the targets are useful. I wouldn't dedicate space and a normal summon to a card that just gets me a Gachi even if it put one of those cards in Deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 [quote name='Kabbles' timestamp='1352051359' post='6061036'] Apart from arguably Phalanz, Plague, Heavy Infantry, Ronintoadin and Pineapple most of the targets are useful. I wouldn't dedicate space and a normal summon to a card that just gets me a Gachi even if it put one of those cards in Deck. [/quote] That doesn't change the fact that the abuse EXISTS. Card Design is a largely on paper process. You can't just say, off the bat "That's meh". Rabbit + Vanilla Dinos seemed meh on Paper initially, but look where that got. Quillbolt, the Gishkis, and the other Frogs also set up heavy plays even faster. It's still badly designed, and it won't always be a free Gachi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhat Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 [quote name='Reborn Black' timestamp='1352048269' post='6060990'] Negating effects doesn't even do enough. Tour Guide is amazing because it basically Foolish Burials Sangan and other targets for a Rank 3. This thing does the same, so most of the cards listed are STILL problem targets. [/quote] Dumping any Level 2 monsters with no effects, so they can be revived later, is broken? [quote name='Reborn Black' timestamp='1352002161' post='6060709'] Here's a list of problem targets that exist as Level 2 alone: Atlantean Heavy Infantry [b]And then what? Grab it with Salvage? Revive it with Roar?[/b] Cherry Inmato [b]And then what?[/b] Deep Sea Diva (Though less so than others) [b]Y luego que?[/b] Dragunity Phalanx [b]Already extremely searchable.[/b] Dragunity Aklys [b]Same.[/b] Esper Girl [b]Wouldn't it be better to have it in the Deck for Witch?[/b] Gale Dogra[b] To pay the Life Points or to dump Synchros?[/b] Gishki Abyss + Gishki Vision [b]To grab with Salvage?[/b] Hero Kid [b]...[/b] Krebons [b]Already extremely searchable.[/b] Naturia Pineapple [b]How dangerous is it? If you make Gantetsu, Pineapple is dead. If you don't make Gantetsu, Pineapple is dead.[/b] Pain Painter [b]Already extremely searchable.[/b] Plaguespreader Zombie [b]Already extremely searchable.[/b] Prior of the Ice Barrier [b]Already extremely dumpable.[/b] Psychic Jumper [b]And then what?[/b] Quillbolt Hedgehog [b]This one could be dangerous.[/b] Ronintoadin [b]Makes Frogs faster, so this could be dangerous.[/b] Slushy [b]Mite B cool.[/b] Swap Frog [b]Could be dangerous because you can use both of their costs.[/b] T.G. Striker [b]And then what?[/b] The Agent of Mystery - Earth [b]2 shots for Hyperion? You wouldn't get a Gantetsu, but wouldn't Normal Summoning Earth achieve the same thing in the same quantity?[/b] The Calculator [b]And then what?[/b] Unifrog [b]And then what?[/b] [/quote] Ronin, Quillbolt and Swap I understand, but the others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 [quote name='newhat' timestamp='1352053566' post='6061070'] Dumping any Level 2 monsters with no effects, so they can be revived later, is broken? Ronin, Quillbolt and Swap I understand, but the others? [/quote] Dumping any Level 3 Fiend with no effects, so they can be revived later, is broken? Not all of them are still great targets afterwords, just most of them are. Also, the arguments for half of them is "There are other ways"... Which I already addressed with "[color=#666666][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]some of these have clearly superior methods to using them or bringing them out... But that doesn't change the fact that the abuse is there. You have to be more restrictive with something like this or it can gowild in no time."[/size][/font][/color] The fact that most of them have better ways to dump or search doesn't make it any less busted. Rescue Cat wasn't absurd originally, but then new ways to abuse it came to be. This is the same concept. Rescue Beasts are tickign time bombs that just wait for the right thing to make them explode. You can't just say "Oh it's just a free Gachi", when more Rank 2s are sure to come. You can't say "not enough good targets" when Level 2s are CERTAINLY more to come. This card is busted card design. Would it be top tier off the bat? Who knows, despite speeding up Frogs. Would it get there eventually? Definitely. Card Design needs to largely think of preventative measures to keep from breaking something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love of Ghibli Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 [quote name='newhat' timestamp='1352053566' post='6061070'] Dumping any Level 2 monsters with no effects, so they can be revived later, is broken? Ronin, Quillbolt and Swap I understand, but the others? [/quote] You could still easily creature swap and Striker's effect activates in grave so he would still go off and yes you would get your free Hyperion which makes it deadly seeing as you're going for a push with a boss monster. Also how are plaguespreader and Pain painter extremely searchable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhat Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 [quote name='Beginning446' timestamp='1352052491' post='6061079'] Also how are plaguespreader and Pain painter extremely searchable? [/quote] They're both valid targets for Pyramid Turtle, Goblin Zombie, Mystic Tomato and Sangan. Tomato isn't common, but the other three are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 [quote name='Reborn Black' timestamp='1352054187' post='6061077'] The fact that most of them have better ways to dump or search doesn't make it any less busted. Rescue Cat wasn't absurd originally, but then new ways to abuse it came to be. This is the same concept. Rescue Beasts are tickign time bombs that just wait for the right thing to make them explode. You can't just say "Oh it's just a free Gachi", when more Rank 2s are sure to come. You can't say "not enough good targets" when Level 2s are CERTAINLY more to come. This card is busted card design. Would it be top tier off the bat? Who knows, despite speeding up Frogs. Would it get there eventually? Definitely. Card Design needs to largely think of preventative measures to keep from breaking something. [/quote] By that argument any card has potential to be broken with any new release. Nobody cared about Mind Control until synchros came out and I'm sure nobody ever thought it was bad card design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 [quote name='Kabbles' timestamp='1352061411' post='6061182'] By that argument any card has potential to be broken with any new release. Nobody cared about Mind Control until synchros came out and I'm sure nobody ever thought it was bad card design. [/quote] But it IS bad design. You should never design somethign that has high potential to be broken. A +1 from the deck pretty much screams abuse, the same way Rabbit and Cat did. Now that we have Xyz and Synchros, this is completely unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Thunder Dragon is a +1 from deck but that never became good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 [quote name='Kabbles' timestamp='1352152183' post='6061531'] Thunder Dragon is a +1 from deck but that never became good. [/quote] It's also restrictive, adds to hand, and gives you 2 otherwise mediocre cards. Not to mention, it /did/ see use in Gem-Knights, so even then, it did enable stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_Gustos Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 hmm, special summon 2 effect monster and have there effs negate. I think i will use rescue rabbit and special summon 2 Frog the Jam instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunnoMan Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 A little dangerous in frogs with two pretty decent targets, but overall balanced. Frogs aren't a real threat to the meta, they're good but i can only see this helping them, not pushing them over the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neutrality Man Posted April 8, 2013 Report Share Posted April 8, 2013 People keep mentioning Xyz plays in this thread: ... "may not be used as an Xyz Material for an Xyz Summon"... Again, take that away, the broken dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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