Not-so-Radiant Arin Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 [img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120607014657/yugioh/images/thumb/e/e9/MasterHyperion-GLD5-EN-GUR-LE.jpg/300px-MasterHyperion-GLD5-EN-GUR-LE.jpg[/img] "Screw your 4000 ATK monster, I have topdecks." Should be limited. Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 It's almost as good as BLS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-so-Radiant Arin Posted November 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 [quote name='Dem The Magic Dragon' timestamp='1352344264' post='6063612'] It's almost as good as BLS. [/quote] Outside of it being Archetype specific, it is. If it banished a Light Fairy-Type as a cost to Summon it, it would be worse than BLS, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhat Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Same story as Hanzo. Enough good targets to make a Deck around but not enough to be banned. In my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love of Ghibli Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 the perpetual +0 I don't understand the hate around this dude. He's just great you have to give up something to summon him and you have to give up something to use his effect. Its fine the way it is unlimited. Boss monsters should be boss monsters and I wish all the butthurt and rage people get from this guy should go to horribly designed things like...grapha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekko1990 Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Yup, boss monsters should be boss monsters. In other words they should be something you play once or twice in a duel to gain good advantage, not in 3's where you can summon them as easy as a single banish. Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon had the same problem, though it was easier to spot because he was indeed more powerful than Hyperion. So since he was so easy to bring out he was limited to compensate. Vennominaga is another side to that coin, being unlimited and a great powerhouse, but so difficult to summon that you won't be seeing her in multiples. The point of a boss monster is generally and should be that you can usually only bring 1 to the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love of Ghibli Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 You never have infinite agent bullets and sacrifices you mostly have one Venus and/or one Earth. The thing is that people play smart and hold their boss hyperions to push for game. Hyperion does show up to give you good consistent advantage which is why he is great, but he isn't spammable as everyone makes him seem. REDMD was horrible because it was a walking +1 beatstick that was allowed to have more support by being a herp derp chaos beastick and could now overlay into a giant cannon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Grapha is bad because he is constantly "recurring" with a Normal Summoned Dark World meaning you never lose advantage. Machina Fortress is okay because even though he can be a "recurring" monster, it requires you to sacrifice card advantage. Hyperion is okay because even though he's a top deck with a pop, he does not become a "recurring" monster and usually when you stop it, you don't have to deal with it for the rest of the game. I'm okay with it being unlimited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 [quote name='Beginning446' timestamp='1352386057' post='6063793'] You never have infinite agent bullets and sacrifices [b]you mostly have one Venus and/or one Earth.[/b] The thing is that people play smart and hold their boss hyperions to push for game. Hyperion does show up to give you good consistent advantage which is why he is great, but he isn't spammable as everyone makes him seem. REDMD was horrible because it was a walking +1 beatstick that was allowed to have more support by being a herp derp chaos beastick and could now overlay into a giant cannon. [/quote] You'd be surprised. Agents have 2 Earth and 3 Venus, with 3 Hyperion, 1 BLS, and 1-2 Krystia. Just those five Agents alone, alongside the 2-3 Shine Balls, is enough to fuel all of those. Earth --> Venus --> Gachi is enough setup for both Hyperion [i]and[/i] Krystia, with an additional Venus/Earth/Ball/Herald/Honest to make [i]both[/i] droppable instantly. Not to mention Tour Guide gives instant BLS setup. Now, concerning Hyperion's "Ammo" issue... Whether he has infinite or not, Hyperion will, 99% of the time, have a LIGHT Fairy in the grave to burn. Hyperion, similar to the High Priestess of Prophecy, will pop a card [i]every turn it is on the field[/i], lest you either get rid of it (Which is not as easy as it sounds) or just leave your field open for Gorz/Trag. And even then, they'll just pop the stronger monster M2 and run over/crash the other one next. Who cares if one Hyperion dies? There's two more waiting in the wings, and another 2-3 boss monsters to go along with it. The next Hyperion will just move in to replace the fallen one and continue to stomp all over your field. [quote name='Chance Furlong' timestamp='1352386371' post='6063795'] Grapha is bad because he is constantly "recurring" with a Normal Summoned Dark World meaning you never lose advantage. Machina Fortress is okay because even though he can be a "recurring" monster, it requires you to sacrifice card advantage. Hyperion is okay because even though he's a top deck with a pop, he does not become a "recurring" monster and usually when you stop it, you don't have to deal with it for the rest of the game. I'm okay with it being unlimited. [/quote] Grapha is essentially a constant +1, being Normal Summonable from the Graveyard. Because you don't have to sacrifice [i]anything[/i] to bring out Grapha, you get a +1 for each summon of him you make. And he's a 2700-3000 beater every time. Machina Fortress is a powerful card with its own protection, though it [i]normally[/i] will require 2 discards (2 Gadgets, Gearframes, Geargias) after the first drop, as it can only discard itself once. It's not quite as bad, though the built-in protection it has is just a tad much. Hyperion is [i]always[/i], [i][b]always[/b][/i] a +0 summon, with a +1 destroying effect. It generates constant advantage like Grapha does, just in a different form. It doesn't matter that it isn't recurring since there's 3 of them. tl;dr Hyperion is still really bad design and never minuses you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Might as well add in "Trade-In" and Honest target so it's consistent and can be recycled with Krista. Even then I find Grapha far more problematic than Hyperion since even though there's 3, Grapha is just always there when he gets there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Not only do you summon a 2700 beater for almost nothing and then you get to destroy a card too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love of Ghibli Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 [quote name='Dem The Magic Dragon' timestamp='1352387024' post='6063801'] You'd be surprised. Agents have 2 Earth and 3 Venus, with 3 Hyperion, 1 BLS, and 1-2 Krystia. Just those five Agents alone, alongside the 2-3 Shine Balls, is enough to fuel all of those. Earth --> Venus --> Gachi is enough setup for both Hyperion [i]and[/i] Krystia, with an additional Venus/Earth/Ball/Herald/Honest to make [i]both[/i] droppable instantly. Not to mention Tour Guide gives instant BLS setup. Now, concerning Hyperion's "Ammo" issue... Whether he has infinite or not, Hyperion will, 99% of the time, have a LIGHT Fairy in the grave to burn. Hyperion, similar to the High Priestess of Prophecy, will pop a card [i]every turn it is on the field[/i], lest you either get rid of it (Which is not as easy as it sounds) or just leave your field open for Gorz/Trag. And even then, they'll just pop the stronger monster M2 and run over/crash the other one next. Who cares if one Hyperion dies? There's two more waiting in the wings, and another 2-3 boss monsters to go along with it. The next Hyperion will just move in to replace the fallen one and continue to stomp all over your field. Grapha is essentially a constant +1, being Normal Summonable from the Graveyard. Because you don't have to sacrifice [i]anything[/i] to bring out Grapha, you get a +1 for each summon of him you make. And he's a 2700-3000 beater every time. Machina Fortress is a powerful card with its own protection, though it [i]normally[/i] will require 2 discards (2 Gadgets, Gearframes, Geargias) after the first drop, as it can only discard itself once. It's not quite as bad, though the built-in protection it has is just a tad much. Hyperion is [i]always[/i], [i][b]always[/b][/i] a +0 summon, with a +1 destroying effect. It generates constant advantage like Grapha does, just in a different form. It doesn't matter that it isn't recurring since there's 3 of them. tl;dr Hyperion is still really bad design and never minuses you. [/quote] How is it a plus one destroying effect? You have to banish to destroy something...ergo you lose potential Krystia set-up or if you're smart about it you set up for krystia. This only makes sense if you don't consider banishing from the graveyard a minus, but I would because 1) its a cost, 2) it mostly stops the immediate Krystia, and 3) unless you're running tourguides the deck doesn't go into Levair enough for you to recover what you removed as cost. Agents are the only thing I'm confident about because I've done pretty much all of the little agent variants. 1 Earth and 1 Venus provide the awesome field set-up that you mentioned before. Hyperion is the boss monster that you drop help maintain advantage till someone kills it. Nevertheless you are stuck with that limited pool of Shine Balls, Venus, and Earth to use his effect, actually you don't even have that great a pool at the beginning of the game because Gachi takes to long to die and you had to remove an agent just to drop him in the first place. Loading more fairy bullets, keeping him alive, and firing more fairy bullets through cards like Herald/Honest/ Other Hyperions are all part of player interaction as I understand it. And that seems to be the one thing people on this forum proselytize about Hyperion provides great player interaction because he's easily killable and can't revive himself like his horrible Dark World counterpart. I know Hyperion is an easily summonable beatstick that has very usable effect but that is where it ends Hyperion does nothing that warrants limiting. [quote name='Chance Furlong' timestamp='1352387632' post='6063806'] Might as well add in "Trade-In" and Honest target so it's consistent and can be recycled with Krista. Even then I find Grapha far more problematic than Hyperion since even though there's 3, Grapha is just always there when he gets there. [/quote] You only count trade-in when you're running boss fairies and I've never gotten a Hyperion with Krystia's effect you grab honest, herald, or some other handtrap/answer lol (or in the very rare case Darklord Zerato lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Banishing from grave is barely a minus, it it a cost but it's you don't lose as much advantage as from hand etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Yeah, banishing fromg Grave/Milling/Etc. are not -1s. You only lose or gain advantage when it's to/from your hand or field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Well you still lose advantage banishing from grave but a different sort of advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-so-Radiant Arin Posted November 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 That Banishing can create additional advantage through the form of Return from the Different Dimension, as well. Banish Earth to Summon this, Banish Venus to pop 1, RftDD, Synch into 5, mow down the field. And, you get more ammo after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 [quote name='みゆきサン' timestamp='1352398351' post='6063904'] That Banishing can create additional advantage through the form of Return from the Different Dimension, as well. Banish Earth to Summon this, Banish Venus to pop 1, RftDD, Synch into 5, mow down the field. And, you get more ammo after that. [/quote] Yeah right RftDD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-so-Radiant Arin Posted November 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 [quote name='Kabbles' timestamp='1352409694' post='6064027'] Yeah right RftDD [/quote] I think it's hilarious that the notification that you quoted me literally came up like two seconds after I logged on. OT: How else are you supposed to get back all of your ammo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 [quote name='みゆきサン' timestamp='1352411640' post='6064046'] OT: How else are you supposed to get back all of your ammo? [/quote] By winning a few turns later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 It's really annoying. I was playing Minefield Burn against agents, and this was basically the only thing he had that could kill me. Thank god I run Warning, because this thing wrecks sh!t. If it was more of a cost to summon it, or use it's effect it'd be more tame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpoleMew Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 [quote name='みゆきサン' timestamp='1352411640' post='6064046'] OT: How else are you supposed to get back all of your ammo? [/quote] Lightray Sorc. Alternatively: [quote name='Dem The Magic Dragon' timestamp='1352411715' post='6064047'] By winning a few turns later. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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