Sora1499 Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 What Chris is claiming: Grapha is an individually balanced card. Chris's argument: His deck sucks. Saying that an individual card is balanced because his support is crap is a flimsy argument at best: all grapha needs is a few more good targets to take the meta by storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted December 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 So, because it attacks the game from a different angle to other bosses, it's broken? Ok then...[quote name='Archlord Sora' timestamp='1356325950' post='6100737'] What Chris is claiming: Grapha is an individually balanced card. Chris's argument: His deck sucks. Saying that an individual card is balanced because his support is crap is a flimsy argument at best: all grapha needs is a few more good targets to take the meta by storm. [/quote] Every card has the potential to be broken given the right support you f***ing nimrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1356326043' post='6100738'] Every card has the potential to be broken given the right support you f***ing nimrod. [/quote] Chris, your tits. Calm them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted December 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 I forgot, cursing apparently = frustrated. s: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1356326141' post='6100740'] I forgot, cursing apparently = frustrated. s: [/quote] No, you just seem frustrated all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted December 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 Blunt, narcissistic, harsh, call how I act whatever, but pretty much anyone who's spoken to me knows it's almost impossible to frustrate me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 I should speak with you more then, I wasn't aware of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-so-Radiant Arin Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 I honestly don't see what's broken about a 3000 vanilla, except for the fact that it can revive itself by dropping a Beiige. And even then, Macro and Crow exist, as well as Sack Luster Soldier. Hell, even Chaos Sorcerer can do the job sufficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 [quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1356325325' post='6100720'] Haven't we gone over this before? And like... We all agreed Snoww was the problem(?) [/quote]Snoww wouldn't be the problem. It'd be the solution. [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1356325867' post='6100734'] Why hit Snoww at all when DWs are already bad enough? [/quote]Because they're not. OT: Grapha is terrible design. So bad that the existence of Dark World monsters breaks it. However, because the rest of the meta is absolute bullshit, it's not bad enough to ban. Or is it? The deck has been destroying the OCG and Grapha is the main reason. So yes, Grapha can and honestly [b]should[/b] be hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 @Agro My hero. I don't think it's bannable because then DWs literally die. It'd be fine at 1, maybe even 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 [quote name='Archlord Sora' timestamp='1356327736' post='6100761'] @Agro My hero. I don't think it's bannable because then DWs literally die. It'd be fine at 1, maybe even 2. [/quote]I don't care if Dark Worlds literally die. I want them to die. I'd be happy to see them go. Just like I'd be happy to see any poorly designed card get banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizarus Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 [quote name='Archlord Sora' timestamp='1356327736' post='6100761'] @Agro My hero. I don't think it's bannable because then DWs literally die. It'd be fine at 1, maybe even 2. [/quote] That's not a good argument. If decks need problem cards to win, they deserve to die anyway. And why hit Snoww for searching one problem card and hurting the entire deck, and not just hit the problem card itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 [quote name='Dem The Magic Dragon' timestamp='1356325935' post='6100736'] Honestly, my only real problem with Graphers is that it is self-revivable. I tend to take cards at face-value. [/quote] Junon and Hyperion are eternal +1 destruction. Why get mad at a summoner when all it does is summon? It generates you a +1 when other cards do the same thing but instead of bringing out a beatstick, they destroy the opponent's.[quote name='Wizarus' timestamp='1356328207' post='6100766'] That's not a good argument. If decks need problem cards to win, they deserve to die anyway. And why hit Snoww for searching one problem card and hurting the entire deck, and not just hit the problem card itself? [/quote] Why hit Agent Earth for searching solely Venus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 Aren't 7 targets for Grapha-bouncing good enough? Not having targets for Summoning Grapha shouldn't be a problem. And altough its true that most DWs are themselves bad, when each of them basically have the ability of becoming 3000 ATK beaters then they shouldn't be that bad anymore. But yeah, with all the new threats that have been and will be released, Grapha barely stands out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingdom Xathers Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 [quote name='Wizarus' timestamp='1356328207' post='6100766'] That's not a good argument. If decks need problem cards to win, they deserve to die anyway. [b]So, your argument should be that every Deck that is at, or close to, Meta-Level should get the shaft.[/b] And why hit Snoww for searching one problem card and hurting the entire deck, and not just hit the problem card itself? [b]Implying that Grapha is Snoww's only good target[/b] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 [quote name='Voltex' timestamp='1356328479' post='6100769'] Aren't 7 targets for Grapha-bouncing good enough? [/quote] Not when 6 of them are used as part of the consistency engine that involves sending to the Graveyard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull3tM0nk3y Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1356324385' post='6100701'] Every single Gadget summon is a +1, they must be broken. [/quote] OH SNAP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerion Brightflame Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 Didn't you make this exact last thread last time you appeared on the site...? OT: I would have said it's imbalanced, but with the amount of creep the game has gone through in the past 6 or 7 months I'd much rather play against this than things like Fire Fists. Frankly I'd rather play prebanlist Inzectors than play Fire Fists anymore but thats a moot point. In truth, it's the only thing making a deck viable, and if you ignore how annoying it is to deal with, and look at the actual hurtful things in the deck then Grapha isn't broken. Well, not any more than anything else in the game is at this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted December 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 Yes. Yes I did. Wasn't that obvious enough when I said I love YCM's reaction to me calling it balanced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 This thread is quite amusing. Now for my 2 cents: I hate Dark Worlds, but only because my friend uses them on me, and I played unconventionally when we dueled the most, so...yeh. This card, itself is fine because it has basically just a built in CotH, and a destruction effect. 3k isn't much when you can just roll over it with all these destruction cards. In regards to what should be hit (if anything): Hit the searcher. Lowering a deck's consistency is the best way to keep it in check. See: Inzectors, HEROes, Agents, etc. Now watch as I get basked in flames by [s]the flamers[/s] everybody :U Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 My gripe isn't with Grapha. That title would have to belong to Skill Drain. Other than that, I don't mind DW too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizarus Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 [quote name='Meta~' timestamp='1356328357' post='6100767'] Why hit Agent Earth for searching solely Venus? [/quote] Precisely. [quote name='Kingdom Xathers' timestamp='1356328727' post='6100775'] [/quote] Ideally, yes. And what card is anyway near problematic that Snoww can search other than Grepha? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 It's not that grapha's design is balanced, it's just that his deck is crap. If you gave him to anything good, then he'd probably be insta-banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 [quote name='Archlord Sora' timestamp='1356361358' post='6100971'] It's not that grapha's design is balanced, it's just that his deck is crap. If you gave him to anything good, then he'd probably be insta-banned. [/quote]^this. All of this. Grapha is broken by one card existing (any Dark World monster). Thankfully, that entire deck is crap without Grapha. But yes, if something other than Grapha got Grapha, the deck would be impossibly stupid and Grapha would get banned as soon as humanly possible. In other words, if Dark Worlds get something else that pushes them further into tier (in other words, makes them Tier in the TCG), then Grapha's getting hit (kinda like REDMD) [quote name='Meta~' timestamp='1356328357' post='6100767'] Junon and Hyperion are eternal +1 destruction. [/quote]Junon and Hyperion don't come back when you kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted December 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 ITT: a card attacks the game from a different angle so it's broken. Unless you think unlikely future possible cards are a remotely decent argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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