This game does not need any more notorious topdecking gods

[AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW]

This thread consists of two boss-like monsters that only hit the field after enough Graveyard setup has been provided, and something I hope won't be achieved [i]too[/i] easily. Their names are also alliterations, because alliterations are always amusing (that's assonance, by the way). I'll start with the one that relies on Spells being in your Graveyard. It requires the banishment of more cards than the one that you will see later that requires Traps, but Spells tend to be faster.

[spoiler='Spell Sage Sagethus'][img]http://i48.tinypic.com/9jiu6c.png[/img]
[i]Cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. Must first be Special Summoned (from your hand) by banishing 4 Spell cards from your Graveyard. Once per turn, during either player's turn: You can send 1 Spell or Trap card from either player's side of the field to the Graveyard; gain 1500 life points. When this card is destroyed: You can discard 1 card; send 1 Spell card from your Deck to the Graveyard and add 1 card with the same name from your Deck to the hand.[/i]

Here is the Spell-based card, and the one who is probably more powerful of the two. On the field, it offers a MST during each player's turn, and a somewhat-decent method of Life Point recovery. It is a Quick effect, so you can chain it to a previously-activated card to reap the healing from it if you are sure you won't be using it on anything better. Its real power lies upon its destruction, however. Upon discarding a card, you can dump a Spell Card from your Deck to the Graveyard to give yourself a Spell Card with the same name. It's designed like this so it wouldn't become instant access to Dark Hole, and the Deck thinning could be a nice side-effect to this.[/spoiler]

[spoiler='Trap Tactician Taciturn'][img]http://i49.tinypic.com/33natc1.png[/img]
[i]Cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. Must first be Special Summoned (from your hand) by banishing 3 Trap cards from your Graveyard. Cards cannot be activated in response to this card's Summon. When this card is Summoned by this effect: You can send 1 Spell or Trap card from your Deck to the Graveyard; draw 1 card during your End Phase. Once per turn: You can target 1 of your banished cards; send that target to the Graveyard. It cannot activate its effect(s) during this turn. When your opponent activates a card effect: You can banish 1 card with the same name from your Graveyard; negate that effect, and if you do, destroy it.[/i]

The number of cards you need to get rid of to fulfill the requirements of this card are fewer, but Traps aren't as easy to get into the Graveyard as Spells. Upon its Summon, firstly, your opponent can't use BTH or TT against it, and secondly, you get a Foolish Burial for Spells and Traps, which isn't useful now, but could become so if Konami does something. Its big bad scary effect isn't the duplicate of a recently-released card that I forgot which basically stops generic card effects, but is the fact that this card can return your banished cards to the Graveyard for whatever reason you need (and the disability to activate itself during that turn was because Mezuki was looking at me funny). Anyway, I feel like this one is more disappointing than Sagethus, but I've tried to make Taciturn useful in his own right.[/spoiler]

[drcrisis]

[b]Hmm, very good. I like them a lot, and I would definately use them.[/b]

[b]My rating is only 7/10 though, and I'll tell you why.[/b]

Too overused.

Every single deck would use these cards. All of the decks even considerable during this format don't care about their spells and traps being banished, so both of these cards would be used in almost every single deck.

Thats bad because it ruins the originality of the card. With a card being a staple, it has no originality or anything like that to it.

Look at all the staples we have in most decks. Heavy, Dark Hole, Monster Reborn, no originality in those cards to be honest. These cards would just stack up on the list of a cards that are very very OP and used in every deck.

[Darkneptune]

Hes got a point. As soon asi read Sagethus, i imagined myself using him in a crystal beast deck. The way i used to use crystal beast was mostly spells in the deck, so summoning him would have been a breeze.

Still i do like the concept and the way they work. i specially like that Tactiturn can cancel traps, that is always good to have

in full honesty i would give you 8/10 and ask you for 2 copies of Sagethus

[Sora1499]

This thread is bad.
[quote name='drcrisis' timestamp='1356661605' post='6103860']
[b]Hmm, very good. I like them a lot, and I would definately use them.[/b]
[b]My rating is only 7/10 though, and I'll tell you why.[/b]
Too overused.
Every single deck would use these cards. All of the decks even considerable during this format don't care about their spells and traps being banished, so both of these cards would be used in almost every single deck.
Thats bad because it ruins the originality of the card. With a card being a staple, it has no originality or anything like that to it.
Look at all the staples we have in most decks. Heavy, Dark Hole, Monster Reborn, no originality in those cards to be honest. These cards would just stack up on the list of a cards thalt are very very OP and used in every deck.
[/quote]
1. Lol, these 2 cards are actually really slow and would only be used in a minority of decks, namely Fire fists and hero beat respectively (and I'm not so sure about the former).
2. How the hell does being a staple desecrate originality? There is literally no connection between your "argument" and your statement.
[quote name='Darkneptune' timestamp='1356752856' post='6104813']
Hes got a point. As soon asi read Sagethus, i imagined myself using him in a crystal beast deck. The way i used to use crystal beast was mostly spells in the deck, so summoning him would have been a breeze.
[/quote]
1. If you're under the illusion that the crystal beasts are spells while in the graveyard, then you're damn wrong. I don't think they could bring this out too easily even if they were.

Now that that's out of the way, I can give you my thoughts on these guys:
*Sagethus- I love this guy! He's really well designed in that he can't grab broken s*** like reborn, and a +0 with a spell seems pretty fair to me. Sadly, he's too slow to see play. The only deck that could run him would be fire fists, but he'd be pretty slow even then, and I don't think he'd be run at more than 1 (if anything).
*Taciturn- Actually, he's probably a lot easier to play than Sagethus because of decks like wabbit and hero beat. He's also really well designed because his effect won't always be consistent, but using it does give you a bit of a safeguard against problem cards. One more reason why I love him: Imagine him in a mirror match. XD

Overall, I really like these two. They're well-designed, interesting, and very original/creative/innovative. Sadly, they're too slow for meta-level play save for a few selective decks. But they're still awesome!!!!! 9/10, definitely

[Darkneptune]

Actually no, i know exactly how crystal beasts work, and i do not want my crystals to be banished from the game. my crystal beast deck had 17 monsters, 2 traps, and 22 spells for a total of 41 cards. 70% of my first draws were spells, and there were no cards in the deck that returned spells from the grave. at the speed i was using spells i could have summoned Sagethus by my second or third turn and still have some spells left in the graveyard.

[Sora1499]

[quote name='Darkneptune' timestamp='1356795439' post='6105063']
Actually no, i know exactly how crystal beasts work, and i do not want my crystals to be banished from the game. my crystal beast deck had 17 monsters, 2 traps, and 22 spells for a total of 41 cards. 70% of my first draws were spells, and there were no cards in the deck that returned spells from the grave. at the speed i was using spells i could have summoned Sagethus by my second or third turn and still have some spells left in the graveyard.
[/quote]

Fair enough, you probably know more about CBs than I do.

[Aix]

[quote name='Darkneptune' timestamp='1356795439' post='6105063']
Actually no, i know exactly how crystal beasts work, and i do not want my crystals to be banished from the game. my crystal beast deck had 17 monsters, 2 traps, and 22 spells for a total of 41 cards. 70% of my first draws were spells, and there were no cards in the deck that returned spells from the grave. at the speed i was using spells i could have summoned Sagethus by my second or third turn and still have some spells left in the graveyard.
[/quote]
Many Duels are already decided by the time you get to your second or third turn with the speed of todays meta.

The only Deck that can bring out Sagethus at any sort of speed would be Fire Fists and Prophecy, and thus, they would be broken as hell cuz its 3000 Life Points every turn, plus double Spell/Trap removal. Though this card would only be run at 1 to avoid clogging. I don't like it because it seriously only works in those two decks and it would make them way strong.

Taciturn is quite good against problem cards like BTH and TT as well as Mirror Force, though sadly it cannot stop stuff like Solemn. However, its downfall is that getting 3 Traps in your Graveyard would be VERY slow except perhaps in Fire Fists.

[Sora1499]

[quote name='AixDivadis' timestamp='1356797580' post='6105105']
The only Deck that can bring out Sagethus at any sort of speed would be Fire Fists and Prophecy, and thus, they would be broken as hell cuz its 3000 Life Points every turn, plus double Spell/Trap removal. Though this card would only be run at 1 to avoid clogging. I don't like it because it seriously only works in those two decks and it would make them way strong.
[/quote]

Life Points don't matter, just sayin. If you're using this, it's probably mid-late game when your opponent has exhausted most, if not all, of their backrow. This card needs some incentive for you to summon it, but now that I think about it, the quick effect clause is a bit of an overkill.

[Aix]

Its another luck draw kind of card. Prophecies can bring this out first turn.

[Sora1499]

Prophecies ain't meta, and I don't think this card would make them meta. Besides, they want their spellbooks in the grave for tower and junon.

[Aix]

There's those cards they have that return banished Spellbooks to the hand. And they have enough for Junon and Tower. They just need 1 or 2.

[Sora1499]

Eternity is only ran at 1 in spellbound and I don't think that this would change that. It's not game-breakingky OP enough to build a deck around like Lightpulsar or DAD.

[drcrisis]

[quote name='Archlord Sora' timestamp='1356764704' post='6104937']
This thread is bad.

1. Lol, these 2 cards are actually really slow and would only be used in a minority of decks, namely Fire fists and hero beat respectively (and I'm not so sure about the former).
2. How the hell does being a staple desecrate originality? There is literally no connection between your "argument" and your statement.

1. If you're under the illusion that the crystal beasts are spells while in the graveyard, then you're damn wrong. I don't think they could bring this out too easily even if they were.

Now that that's out of the way, I can give you my thoughts on these guys:
*Sagethus- I love this guy! He's really well designed in that he can't grab broken s*** like reborn, and a +0 with a spell seems pretty fair to me. Sadly, he's too slow to see play. The only deck that could run him would be fire fists, but he'd be pretty slow even then, and I don't think he'd be run at more than 1 (if anything).
*Taciturn- Actually, he's probably a lot easier to play than Sagethus because of decks like wabbit and hero beat. He's also really well designed because his effect won't always be consistent, but using it does give you a bit of a safeguard against problem cards. One more reason why I love him: Imagine him in a mirror match. XD

Overall, I really like these two. They're well-designed, interesting, and very original/creative/innovative. Sadly, they're too slow for meta-level play save for a few selective decks. But they're still awesome!!!!! 9/10, definitely
[/quote]

[b]The whole point is, 99/100 decks could care less if their spells got banished, or traps. It just makes these cards way too useful. Having a card that can fit into any deck, and probably would due to its power, isnt right. Staples, to me, are bad. Every deck needs to be more original with their choices instead of adding the cards that any deck can use, just like these.[/b]

[Sora1499]

[quote name='drcrisis' timestamp='1356910221' post='6106496']
[b]The whole point is, 99/100 decks could care less if their spells got banished, or traps. It just makes these cards way too useful. Having a card that can fit into any deck, and probably would due to its power, isnt right. Staples, to me, are bad. Every deck needs to be more original with their choices instead of adding the cards that any deck can use, just like these.[/b]
[/quote]
Just because a deck doesn't care about banished spells doesn't mean that it can run this, lol. You'd need a target number of about 16 for this to be consistent, and most decks don't run 16 spells, and the decks that do usually have better options.

I'm not even gonna address your other point.

[AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW]

[quote name='drcrisis' timestamp='1356910221' post='6106496']
[b]The whole point is, 99/100 decks could care less if their spells got banished, or traps. It just makes these cards way too useful. Having a card that can fit into any deck, and probably would due to its power, isnt right. Staples, to me, are bad. Every deck needs to be more original with their choices instead of adding the cards that any deck can use, just like these.[/b]
[/quote]

The point of the S/T banishing to Summon is to delay the speed it takes for them to hit the field, it's not supposed to punish a Deck that banishes the wrong Spells and now you can't play Mystical Moon because it banished all of its Mystical Moons. And if we ran every cool-looking card we could because we have a chance of Summoning it, everyone would have 60-card decks and then 15 more in the side.

As for "every Deck must be original!!1!", that would really only work in M:tG, and even then I have a hunch that they play similar effects sometimes even if the spell names are different. If we just dropped every staple right now (and made sure we wouldn't use any back up staples, so that every Deck is 100% different), we would have a lot of similar effects like "Reveal 1 <archetype monster> and target 1 Spell or Trap card on the field; destroy that card." Either that or backrow will benefit heavily from practically only monsters being able to kill them, since about any S/T that kills backrow is gone. If what you had in mind was neither of that, then Konami would have to do a lot of work to make multi-effect S/T removal and we'd have Mushroom Men with Stamping Destruction-Dualities and M-Warrior Mobius-Dark World Dealings. Oh, and we have to make sure it is [u][i]all[/i][/u] balanced. MST shouldn't even have so many extra effects anyway.

Now of course, Decks shouldn't be 100% the same (unless you're netdecking), but Yugioh can't just say "lol let's be stapleless!" all of the sudden. I'm sure M:tG might even have staples cards for their certain creature type Decks or colors, like one that all Elves run.