Zexal Weapon Wind-Ups

So it's like Wind-Ups but with bad cards?

Like you can play ZW Wind-Ups if you really wanted to but playing bad cards Soldier, Monk, Estelle, and Thrasher over traps is just wrong. Not to mention you're severely hurting yourself with your extra deck with too many duplicates (like why would you ever summon more than one Leo Arms or three Utopias) and bad cards in general. Invoker and Ouroboros are way too gimmicky and playing Instant Fusion limits your options even more.

Wind-Ups are good because they're extremely flexible, but you're throwing this concept out the window by hindering your deck with gimmicky cards.

Oh, and you're not playing Tour Guide.

StupidFred · January 31, 2013

Because speeding your way to a 5000 ATK beater that cannot be targeted or destroyed by card effect is every player's dream. Is it not? Wind-Ups can produce Rank 4 and Rank 5 with ease already and I added the Invoker + Soldier combo so I can make Lion Arms first turn with a very high percentage. Utopia is automatic with Magician and Shark obviously and once I get Tornado Bringer and Lightning Blade on Utopia I will most likely win. It is basically a 5000ATK Obelisk. Plus you can use multiple ZW on the same Utopia/Lion Arms as long as they have different names. I also have no need for Tour Guide... Here are some screenshots:

The Perfect Setup

The Absolute Perfect Setup

Pulled This Off in Turn 1

Another Broken Turn 1

Zeppeli Gyro Supreme · January 31, 2013

Not to mention you're severely hurting yourself with your extra deck with too many duplicates (like why would you ever summon more than one Leo Arms or three Utopias)

I have summoned all three of my Utopias, my 2 Utopia Rays, and 2 of my Leo Arms all in the same duel before... It just depends on the duel and if you end up using Pot of Avarice or not. This is with my own Wind-Up Zexal deck, though. I'm not sure how you use Envoker to make Leo Arms turn 1, though. Instant Fusion? But then how are you going to make Utopia?

And yes, Tour Guide is a must. it gets the Shark combo going much faster. All you need is tour guide into Carrier, summon Magician, summon shark, and it goes from there.

byak · January 31, 2013

Because speeding your way to a 5000 ATK beater that cannot be targeted or destroyed by card effect is every player's dream. Is it not?

You're better off playing regular Wind-Ups which are ten times more consistent, can still win games with Magician Shark, and can actually grind out wins when they don't open them.

StupidFred · January 31, 2013

Why don't you just test it and find out how consistent this deck actually is?

Zeppeli Gyro Supreme · January 31, 2013

You're better off playing regular Wind-Ups which are ten times more consistent, can still win games with Magician Shark, and can actually grind out wins when they don't open them.

If he wants to play a competitive deck, or the "best possible build for wind-ups", then you're absolutely right. However, something you and everyone else in the deck section should realize is that people are not always trying to build "the winning deck", they just might possibly be building something for fun. In which case, the job of the commenter at that point is to give them tips on how to make the type of deck they want to build better.

StupidFred · January 31, 2013

If he wants to play a competitive deck, or the "best possible build for wind-ups", then you're absolutely right. However, something you and everyone else in the deck section should realize is that people are not always trying to build "the winning deck", they just might possibly be building something for fun.

Thank you lol. This deck can pull off insane combos that I had never thought was possible. Just give it a chance.

evilfusion · January 31, 2013

I actually agree with some of Jenny's comments, namely the lack of Tour Guide (an instant Zenmaity), and in my eyes, the strange abundance of ZWs. Why are Tornado and Lightning both at 3? They seem like they'd clog badly in the hand, and you can only equip one of each to a Utopia, and one can be searched with Leo Arms.

It also looks like you're using a lot of cards that will require your Normal Summon, and with no Trap lineup, you'd be extremely vulnerable if you can't get your combos aligned early.

Granted, I've never tested ZW-Wind-Up much as I want to.

Zeppeli Gyro Supreme · January 31, 2013

Suppose I should start adding in more to what I think about the deck, as well. I did agree that Tour Guide needs to be in there, so that's there. As I said, I also don't get Invoker, though if there is a real, usable combo there, it can easily be achieved with Tour Guides as well.

I dunno. I guess he is using so many of each ZW because he wants to draw into them to make his Utopia invincible from the get-go, though my build only used 1 of each so that I wouldn't get clogged. I don't think 3 of each is necessary by a long shot, and if you're playing your deck right you should only need to draw into a single ZW to get the combo going, you don't need 3 of both and Ultimate Shield (whose equip effect is not only bad but also not going to ever activate its summon effect if you successfully pull off your combo).

I would also recommend 2 Summoner Monk, as it also can set off the combo by summoning Magician, and if you don't have the combo you can summon Drawing (which I think shouldn't be played at 3, nor Thrasher).

My build, by the way: http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/296294-im-going-zexal-with-broken-cards/

byak · January 31, 2013

Honestly you can play ZW Wind-Up but the problem is your card choices are suboptimal (see: star drawing). Obviously Utopia + two equips is broken but this deck fails against anything that can set up protection before you.

StupidFred · January 31, 2013

Suppose I should start adding in more to what I think about the deck, as well. I did agree that Tour Guide needs to be in there, so that's there. As I said, I also don't get Invoker, though if there is a real, usable combo there, it can easily be achieved with Tour Guides as well.

I dunno. I guess he is using so many of each ZW because he wants to draw into them to make his Utopia invincible from the get-go, though my build only used 1 of each so that I wouldn't get clogged. I don't think 3 of each is necessary by a long shot, and if you're playing your deck right you should only need to draw into a single ZW to get the combo going, you don't need 3 of both and Ultimate Shield (whose equip effect is not only bad but also not going to ever activate its summon effect if you successfully pull off your combo).

I would also recommend 2 Summoner Monk, as it also can set off the combo by summoning Magician, and if you don't have the combo you can summon Drawing (which I think shouldn't be played at 3, nor Thrasher).

My build, by the way: http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/296294-im-going-zexal-with-broken-cards/

One of each? What would you do if Tornado Bringer got destroyed while you did not have Lightning Blade? I always have a replacement 2 ZW in my hand in case Utopia has no materials and I need to go into Utopia Ray so does not die. You don't need a lot of traps for this deck. You can so quickly summon 1 or even 2 Utopia in 1 turn that cannot be destroyed/targeted by card effects and both have 5000 ATK.

Star Drawing is to revolve with Wind-Up Shark for a Tiras and allows for that extra +. It just gives this amazing deck even more options. I am considering Tour Guide and another Summoner Monk, but they are not needed. I can't find space in the deck where there is already so much potential and I feel like the Tour Guides and another Summoner Monk could throw off its consistency.

And Jenny: How many other decks could set up before this? I am usually able to have an invincible Utopia on turn 1, turn 2 at the latest.

@ Evilfusion: The only turn I will need to normal summon a card is 1st turn. It will generally send me into a loop to bring out Utopia and some ZW's & Leo Arms.

**At least test this before you guys say more about how it needs Tour Guide and more traps. If you use the loops right, you could have 2 Leo Arms and 1 Utopia with 2 ZW's attached to it first turn.

evilfusion · January 31, 2013

Very well, I'll humor you enough to copy your Decklist and test it later today. Here's a few comments that came to mind when I was putting the Deck together:

I immediately got a bad vibe when I put in 3 copies of ZW-Leo Arms. Do you actually try to Summon 3 of them in one game? Wouldn't a different Rank 5 like Volcasaurus be better, at least as an option? I immediately consider dropping Leo Arms to 2 and adding Volcasaurus, just in case.

And why Invoker? You only have 1 target for its effect, and that's Wind-Up Soldier. (The monster Summoned must be exactly Level 4, so Wind-Up Rabbit can't be SSed). I'm just confused why you're using an Extra Deck slot for precisely one play, especially considering you're using Wind-Up Rat, which can quickly produce Rank 3s.

I'll still test the Deck as is, but it was something that rubbed me the wrong way when I was constructing. I would at least have put Leviair in.

My other concern on paper is that your primary justification for running so many ZWs is that the combo of the two makes Utopia nearly invincible, and that's true. Except cards like Solemn Warning, Torrential, and Bottomless are very real dangers (although Ultimate Shield does help a little).

At the moment, I agree you don't NEED Tour Guide, due to the intended focus on Rank 4+5.

Zeppeli Gyro Supreme · January 31, 2013

One of each? What would you do if Tornado Bringer got destroyed while you did not have Lightning Blade? I always have a replacement 2 ZW in my hand in case Utopia has no materials and I need to go into Utopia Ray so does not die. You don't need a lot of traps for this deck. You can so quickly summon 1 or even 2 Utopia in 1 turn that cannot be destroyed/targeted by card effects and both have 5000 ATK.

I always go for Lightning Blade before a Tornado Bringer, because not only will Blade also protect my Leo Arms, but more often than not the card my opponent has will be a destroying card, not a targeting one. Tornado Bringer is what I add when I already have a Lightning, or if I know my opponent's deck to have a lot of targeting cards.

Star Drawing is to revolve with Wind-Up Shark for a Tiras and allows for that extra +. It just gives this amazing deck even more options. I am considering Tour Guide and another Summoner Monk, but they are not needed. I can't find space in the deck where there is already so much potential and I feel like the Tour Guides and another Summoner Monk could throw off its consistency.

You're talking about something not based on the main goal of your deck, and you should always be looking to most consistently achieve your goal, not to add random cards that support a different theme of your deck. Anyways, Carrier still allows for Rank 5 plays with Shark and Warrior. Star Draw + Wind-Up Warrior is two normal summons, so that's not a good combo.

StupidFred · January 31, 2013

You know that Star Drawing can be used for ZW - Leo Arms as well right? Tiras is just another option depending on your current circumstances. Star Drawing can be used just like why I have Instant Fusion in there. It can be used for either a rank 4 or 5 XYZ summon. So it could potentially be used for a Utopia or ZW - Leo Arms. And Evilfusion, yes I do not use Tour Guide because I am not primarily focused on getting M-X-Saber Invoker out, even though that is an option. Zeppeli, this is also why I don't have Zenmaity in here. But about the 3 Leo Arms (Evilfusion), I have come into problems keeping the 2 I can normally get on the field. So I have another just in case. I have found that in almost every match I will use at least 2 ZW - Leo Arms. And thank you for testing it out :)

Honestly you can play ZW Wind-Up but the problem is your card choices are suboptimal (see: star drawing). Obviously Utopia + two equips is broken but this deck fails against anything that can set up protection before you.

Instead of just saying how I can lose, could you give me some feedback of how to fix it? Just saying it's bad doesn't help me at all lol.

evilfusion · January 31, 2013

Instead of just saying how I can lose, could you give me some feedback of how to fix it? Just saying it's bad doesn't help me at all lol.

For the record, suggestions for fixes were made, several times, some cards mentioned specifically. You've just shot down most of them so far and insisted on people Deck testing before their criticisms could be considered legit (okay, you didnt say this explicitly, but it's implied). Which I still plan to do, but most of Jenny's comments only look unhelpful because they're following up on her first post's opinions, but you haven't really acknowledged them.

Star Drawing does look awful at 3. This is part of what I said earlier about using too many Normal Summons. Star Drawing, not being a Wind-Up, has no method of spamming the way the others do. It does have excellent combos with Shark, Warrior, Summoner Monk, or Thrasher, but 3 feels like too many. I would maybe run 1, or 2 maximum.

If you're not using Invoker as a focus, and only have 1 target for its effect, why is being run at all over Leviair, a second Zenmaines, etc? (Your Deck list says you are using Zenmaity). And all right, I'll give benefit of the doubt for now on the 3 Leo Arms.

I'm still only making comments based on what I see on paper, and I have a few concerns about my playstyle despising the high monster count in the Main Deck and lack of flexibility in the Extra, but I'll set that aside for now. I will definitely return to post some of my results from playtesting when I get the time to do that.

Synchronized · January 31, 2013

I can't understand why you're running Ultimate Shield when there's really no point to it.

Also, 3 copies of each of the other ZW's is actually really bad

StupidFred · January 31, 2013

Because it is easily accessible and can offer good protection at times.

@Evilfusion: Thanks for the feedback. I have just been using this build for a little while now based on my friend's build. He is like this deck-building genius from Pojo. But anyways, I was posting it on here to see if you guys had any different suggestions than the people just saying "deck looks good" on Pojo. What should I replace 1 of the Star Drawing with for testing?

Synchronized · January 31, 2013

deck-building genius from Pojo

Surely this was a joke.

StupidFred · January 31, 2013

Actually, no. He has come up with some really cool concepts I have seen before. Here is the link to his deck: http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=1097801&page=3

Synchronized · January 31, 2013

His Deck and your Deck are virtually identical. Therefore my opinion still stands.

~Marluxia~ · January 31, 2013

Because speeding your way to a 5000 ATK beater that cannot be targeted or destroyed by card effect is every player's dream. Is it not? Wind-Ups can produce Rank 4 and Rank 5 with ease already and I added the Invoker + Soldier combo so I can make Lion Arms first turn with a very high percentage. Utopia is automatic with Magician and Shark obviously and once I get Tornado Bringer and Lightning Blade on Utopia I will most likely win. It is basically a 5000ATK Obelisk. Plus you can use multiple ZW on the same Utopia/Lion Arms as long as they have different names. I also have no need for Tour Guide... Here are some screenshots:

The Perfect Setup

The Absolute Perfect Setup

Pulled This Off in Turn 1

Another Broken Turn 1

My dream and goal is just to win the duel, that's all. ANd I agree, these are some choices you've made.

evilfusion · February 1, 2013

Okay, I have returned from a round of playtesting with new info.

Game 1 I won with relative ease.

Game 2 I lost because I made a misplay and was too cautious with my moves, although next turn I probably would have won.

Game 3, in one turn (my 2nd turn), I brought out Utopia and 2 Leos Arms, plus Lightning and Tornado for an 11000 Utopia.

Star Drawing is not needed at all. It should not even be in the Deck, as all 3 games, I assembled perfectly solid combos and plays without it, all of which easily resulted in Utopias and Leo Arms.

Instant Fusion clogs at 3. Many games, I ended up with more copies than I needed, and Set one as a bluff. It would always get destroyed. Only 2 copies are needed, especially since you only have 2 Fusions to SS with it.

I would remove Invoker for Leviair or another Zenmaines, just because they're better than Invoker. 9/10 you'll go for Zenmaity in the first place, since it's got way more spam and combo potential than Invoker.

Photon Thrasher might not need to be run at 3, but right now, I don't care.

Ultimate Shield sucks. Remove it at once.

No major issue at this time with clogging ZWs, so no complaint with each being at 3.

-3 Star Drawing

-1 Ultimate Shield

-1 Instant Fusion

-1 Invoker

+1 Leviair

As for adding cards...I'm thinking you need some sort of defensive card to prevent being OTKed. Something like Gorz, or Tragoedia, and maybe Effect Veiler for protection. If speed is too much of an issue without Star, maybe Upstart Goblin could be considered. But Star simply was not needed at all.

StupidFred · February 1, 2013

I've been thinking about Trag so I could have some hand-traps... Maybe I'll take out 3 Star Drawing for 2 Effect Veiler and 1 Trag. I still don't like the -1 Instant Fusion because that has come so handy and the rest that I draw can become fodder for Summoner Monk (Same with Wind-Up Factory). My Ultimate Shield isn't used for his equipping ability, even though that can become a + for a few occasions, but it is an instant Leviair. It's first effect is that when it is normal/special summoned that it can target 1 banished XYZ monster and special summon it in defense. I would be using this for ZW - Leo Arms. Thank you so much for the feedback!

I also forgot to tell you the Invoker combo lol. It's when you summon Invoker and you have Shark in hand. Soldier gets SS'd and then you have an instant level 5 right there.

evilfusion · February 1, 2013

You have the same combo by going Zenmaity (you'll always do this first before even considering Invoker, and if Soldier isn't in Deck, Invoker is a dead card). Leviair is for just-in-case scenarios, I still rarely make any Rank 3 other than Zenmaity.

The lack of other Rank 4s in this Deck is bugging me. Utopia isnt always the ideal monster for the job. It's your ace and you definitely use it the most, but it isn't always ideal for every situation.

I'd also consider cutting down the ZW counts to 2 each. While the combo is fantastic, I played 2 more games today where I ended up getting 2 copies each of Lightning and Tornado in hand, and with so many dead cards and no trap lineup (or even Book of Moon), I couldn't do anything.

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