Thousand-Eyes Restrict

[Superdoopertrooper]

 

 

Why are you still banned :(. We need Goat Control to become a thing again.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

goat control will never be a format again. the card pool is far too big now for a deck concept like that to be anything approaching successful.

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

Goat control wouldn't even be a thing with this and scapegoat back @3. Metamorphosis has better things to do than make this as well. s:

Besides, if you want to play goat control, DN's unlimited is a thing, as is just playing it irl.

[Superdoopertrooper]

I know it wouldn't be competitive in todays environment at all, but it would certainly be a nice option to be able to play it as a tier 3 deck.

[Althemia]

I mean I'm pretty sure this'd be used as an Instant Fusion target in Karakuri just because of the positives of DARK, 1 for 1 removal and capable of making synchros like Formula Synchron. Dunno if it'll ever come back though.

[Agro]

A monster with its steal effect that's semi-easy to summon would be cool.

 

It'd turn Instant Fusion into: "Pay 1000 Life Points; Send 1 monster to the Graveyard and SS 1 Level 1 Token to your side of the field."

 

Which, honestly, isn't that big of an issue at all. It'd just be 1-4-1 removal, basically.

 

But Metamorphosis... yeah, no.

 

Scapegoat to 3 would be pretty cool though.

[玄魔の王]

goat control will never be a format again. the card pool is far too big now for a deck concept like that to be anything approaching successful.

 

^this, all the way.

 

A monster with its steal effect that's semi-easy to summon would be cool.

 

It'd turn Instant Fusion into: "Pay 1000 Life Points; Send 1 monster to the Graveyard and SS 1 Level 1 Token to your side of the field."

 

Which, honestly, isn't that big of an issue at all. It'd just be 1-4-1 removal, basically.

 

But Metamorphosis... yeah, no.

 

Scapegoat to 3 would be pretty cool though.

 

Metamorphosis must never come back. That said, I agree with you on this not being a big enogh threat anymore; I think letting one back would be fine.

 

I mean I'm pretty sure this'd be used as an Instant Fusion target in Karakuri just because of the positives of DARK, 1 for 1 removal and capable of making synchros like Formula Synchron. Dunno if it'll ever come back though.

It can also be used for Slacker Magician.

[Superdoopertrooper]

Metamorphosis can easily come back to 1 without any other changes. If it wants to go higher than that, Naturia Exterio is pretty much the only problematic interaction it has, so it may need to be banned.

 

PS:

 

"So Gadgets are degenerate for the game, but Elma loops aren't?

 

Gadgets in perspective aren't broken, and are actually a deck a lot of people wouldn't mind being meta. They might be unbalanced, but what in the game is balanced nowadays?"

 

Gadgets are 1,000 times more likely to win a match than a loop deck with 1 Elma in it. Therefore, no, statistically those loops decks are not as overall degenerate as Gadgets, because even though the way they win may be considered degenerate, the fact that they would hardly ever win means it wouldn't affect the game. Gadgets can win and do win, and therefore do impact the game, the reason they aren't right now is because there are newer decks which have higher chance of giving you a free win for going first, and are just as skilless to play as the loop decks and gadgets. Therefore, they actually are worse in that sense, because they both take virtually no skill to use, but one has a much higher chance of winning than the other.

[L0SS]

Metamorphosis can easily come back to 1 without any other changes. If it wants to go higher than that, Naturia Exterio is pretty much the only problematic interaction it has, so it may need to be banned.

 

PS:

 

 

Gadgets are 1,000 times more likely to win a match than a loop deck with 1 Elma in it. Therefore, no, statistically those loops decks are not as overall degenerate as Gadgets, because even though the way they win may be considered degenerate, the fact that they would hardly ever win means it wouldn't affect the game. Gadgets can win and do win, and therefore do impact the game, the reason they aren't right now is because there are newer decks which have higher chance of giving you a free win for going first, and are just as skilless to play as the loop decks and gadgets. Therefore, they actually are worse in that sense, because they both take virtually no skill to use, but one has a much higher chance of winning than the other.

That isn't how it works. Loops degenerate the game state because they encourage stupid play that has no interaction and is of no fun for, let's face it, either player. Saying that a card group can win matches isn't a reason for it to be banned. Realistically, ask yourself which you would rather play against. Gadgets are fairly monotonous, but it certainly isn't a loop, and there are ways of shutting them down. 

[Headmaster Monokuma]

Will you please shut the fucking hell up. You are horrible at theory. You are just plain horrible and obnoxious. No one here likes you, and no one here WANTS you to be here.

 

Metamorphosis should NOT come back. It has both Exterio and Cyber Twin/End. Would these cards be game breaking, no, probably not, but that doesn't mean it should come back to attempt to fuck up the game.

 

Elma is the same, the potential for future abuse with future cards is there. It isn't a matter of being broken at the given moment, it's a matter of restricting what can be done in the future, which is precisely what cards like Elma, Exodia, and even things like E-Dragons do, regardless of how much of an impact they make at any given time.

 

Gadgets do NOT make the impact that these decks make, and by implying they do you're either being butthurt about the deck or just being plain bad, and I can believe either one. Gadgets are fundamentally bad design, yes. They should probably at least be semi'd on the list, but no they should not be fucking banned. They aren't that problematic, even if the deck is repetitive. Every deck in Yugioh is repetitive.

 

Gadgets should be semi'd at the very least on the basis of just searching and thinning the deck while not losing advantage, it's pretty dumb design. But you know what? I would rather HIT cards that are actual problems while NOT bringing back cards that have the potential to be fucking stupid like Elma or MoF. Both of these cards restrict what can be done in the future.

 

Now please, fuck off.

 

OT: I would love to see this guy back. I don't really think he SHOULD come back, but I wouldn't mind if he did.

[Legend Zero]

The Judge has become the jury and executioner.

OT: This is like, one of the few banned cards I don't have or have ever owned. :S

As stated before, being back @1 would allow for Instant Fusion + revive plays which wouldn't be meta. That's about it.

[Superdoopertrooper]

That isn't how it works. Loops degenerate the game state because they encourage stupid play that has no interaction and is of no fun for, let's face it, either player. Saying that a card group can win matches isn't a reason for it to be banned. Realistically, ask yourself which you would rather play against. Gadgets are fairly monotonous, but it certainly isn't a loop, and there are ways of shutting them down. 

 

Only overtly consistent loops degenerate the game state. Otherwise, by your theory, Flintlock needs to be banned for allowing a loop deck to exist. The Flintlock loop, despite being around for years and years, has never been a negative thing for the game at large, so therefore, if a loop deck using 1 Elma has a consistency similar to that of the Flintlock loop, it is not a problem, and certainly far less problematic than a practically skilless deck like Gadgets or Samurais (not going to use the extreme examples of E-Dragons and Prophecy).

 

That in itself is an important point: it doesn't matter what the deck does, whether it be beat down or looping; if a deck requires virtually no skill or meaningful interaction and has a high probability of winning, it's a problem. Gadgets are completely linear and their optimum plays are practically always entirely obvious, so how is using that deck to win really any different to using a loop deck involving Elma? Answer: the gadget deck is the better choice to use, because you have to think just as little as the loop deck, but you have a better chance of winning. Therefore, gadgets in their current state in fact have a more negative effect on the game in that respect, same goes for a lot of other decks.

 

The Judge has become the jury and executioner.

OT: This is like, one of the few banned cards I don't have or have ever owned. :S

As stated before, being back @1 would allow for Instant Fusion + revive plays which wouldn't be meta. That's about it.

 

Thank you. Now if only people would see that MoF is in the same boat, an outdated card which is arguably even less powerful than TER.

[Aerion Brightflame]

Can we not bring the last thread into this one this one please. Getting a second topic locked because of this in one day seems pointless.

 

OT: It can come back to 1, inspire some fun decks, some memories, and have some crazed fool try and find a way to break it. It's not exactly game threatening anymore.

[L0SS]

Only overtly consistent loops degenerate the game state. Otherwise, by your theory, Flintlock needs to be banned for allowing a loop deck to exist. The Flintlock loop, despite being around for years and years, has never been a negative thing for the game at large, so therefore, if a loop deck using 1 Elma has a consistency similar to that of the Flintlock loop, it is not a problem, and certainly far less problematic than a practically skilless deck like Gadgets or Samurais (not going to use the extreme examples of E-Dragons and Prophecy).

 

That in itself is an important point: it doesn't matter what the deck does, whether it be beat down or looping; if a deck requires virtually no skill or meaningful interaction and has a high probability of winning, it's a problem. Gadgets are completely linear and their optimum plays are practically always entirely obvious, so how is using that deck to win really any different to using a loop deck involving Elma? Answer: the gadget deck is the better choice to use, because you have to think just as little as the loop deck, but you have a better chance of winning. Therefore, gadgets in their current state in fact have a more negative effect on the game in that respect, same goes for a lot of other decks.

 

 

Thank you. Now if only people would see that MoF is in the same boat, an outdated card which is arguably even less powerful than TER.

I think as someone stated before, you have to look at the future. A loop is a stupid mechanic and there is no reason for this to be unbanned to even give the possibility of abuse. Gadgets cannot be abused in such a manner, and are a fairly standard card group. Not well designed, but relatively fair and easy to combat against. Flint Lock, by the same token as Elma, is also stupid. But Elma is purely used for silly Exodia solitaire rubbish, and with a far simpler set-up than Flint Lock. You really can't compare Gadgets to Elma.

 

OT: A card that doesn't really need to be banned. It's quite fun and nostalgic. It'd be fun to troll with. I don't miss it, but it isn't that bad. @1 it would be alright.

[Legend Zero]

Thank you. Now if only people would see that MoF is in the same boat, an outdated card which is arguably even less powerful than TER.

You misunderstand. MoF is not the same as TER in this regard, because of what they are relevant to. MoF gets more useful/broken/harder/better/faster/stronger with each busted Spell that gets produced, while TER is a relic of the ancient fusions. It is much more likely that a card will come to break MoF further than it is for TER.

TER is powerful, but he lacks the versatility that Faith brings to the table. This versatility is something that could ruin a future format.

This may be offtopic, but what is your problem with cards on the banlist? Is it not natural and logical for a TCG with a continuously growing cardpool to have a continuously growing banlist? Why do cards deserve a second chance?

[Superdoopertrooper]

You misunderstand. MoF is not the same as TER in this regard, because of what they are relevant to. MoF gets more useful/broken/harder/better/faster/stronger with each busted Spell that gets produced, while TER is a relic of the ancient fusions. It is much more likely that a card will come to break MoF further than it is for TER.

TER is powerful, but he lacks the versatility that Faith brings to the table. This versatility is something that could ruin a future format.

This may be offtopic, but what is your problem with cards on the banlist? Is it not natural and logical for a TCG with a continuously growing cardpool to have a continuously growing banlist? Why do cards deserve a second chance?

 

Magician of Faith isn't always versatile, it's completely dependent on how many and what Spells you have in your graveyard, which isn't always many, and it takes at least a turn to get the spell back and there's no guarantee Faith will actually get its effect off either. No spell will ever come out which will magically break Faith. If a new completely busted Spell card is released, then it's probably going to win the game for you after you play it anyway.

 

Cards deserve a 'second chance' because of this:

 

Konami Employee #1: I'm banning Firegrass.

Konami Employee #2: Ok.

 

*Sixth Months Later*

 

Konami Employee #3: I don't think Firegrass should be ba-

Konami Employee #1: Shut up! Anything that is banned must remain there forever don't you know!? Who gives a Fuck about whether it should be or not!

Konami Employee #3: .....

 

If a card shouldn't be banned, it shouldn't be, plain and simple. Self-explanatory really.

[L0SS]

Magician of Faith isn't always versatile, it's completely dependent on how many and what Spells you have in your graveyard, which isn't always many, and it takes at least a turn to get the spell back and there's no guarantee Faith will actually get its effect off either. No spell will ever come out which will magically break Faith. If a new completely busted Spell card is released, then it's probably going to win the game for you after you play it anyway.

 

Cards deserve a 'second chance' because of this:

 

Konami Employee #1: I'm banning Firegrass.

Konami Employee #2: Ok.

 

*Sixth Months Later*

 

Konami Employee #3: I don't think Firegrass should be ba-

Konami Employee #1: Shut up! Anything that is banned must remain there forever don't you know!? Who gives a Fuck about whether it should be or not!

Konami Employee #3: .....

 

If a card shouldn't be banned, it shouldn't be, plain and simple. Self-explanatory really.

But cards are banned for a reason. If there was room for exploitation in the past, then there is room for it in the future. Firegrass is a non-starter. 

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

You misunderstand. MoF is not the same as TER in this regard, because of what they are relevant to. MoF gets more useful/broken/harder/better/faster/stronger with each busted Spell that gets produced, while TER is a relic of the ancient fusions. It is much more likely that a card will come to break MoF further than it is for TER.

TER is powerful, but he lacks the versatility that Faith brings to the table. This versatility is something that could ruin a future format.

This may be offtopic, but what is your problem with cards on the banlist? Is it not natural and logical for a TCG with a continuously growing cardpool to have a continuously growing banlist? Why do cards deserve a second chance?

 

actually restrict DOES restrict (hue hue) future card design. the difference is that the area it restricts (future fusion spells) is much much smaller than faith (all spell cards) and hardly noticed. for nostalgia reasons (and the fact that i own one somewhere) i wouldnt mind seeing it back for funsies for a format. but not anything permanent and konami probably doesnt share my view of funsies and will either leave this to rot or bring it back on a more permanent basis.

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

What fucking moron calls Gadgets bad design?

[玄魔の王]

 

Guys, I created the MoF thread so all the MoF would go there. Please stay on topic before this thread ends up like the last 2.

 

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[Superdoopertrooper]

What fucking moron calls Gadgets bad design?

 

I'm not saying they were necessarily badly designed at the time they were made (which is still questionable considering UO was at 3, and being a +1 on summon potentially 8 times is pretty good, yo) but now that the Xyz mechanic exists and that other cards that interact with them have been made (Tinplate + Kage), they are indeed an issue because they've become simultaneously very powerful and mindless to use. Not a very nice combination.

[Agro]

I'm not saying they were necessarily badly designed at the time they were made (which is still questionable considering UO was at 3, and being a +1 on summon potentially 8 times is pretty good, yo) but now that the Xyz mechanic exists and that other cards that interact with them have been made (Tinplate + Kage), they are indeed an issue because they've become simultaneously very powerful and mindless to use. Not a very nice combination.

Can you like, stop trolling? It's getting old.

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

Yeah, you have to be a fucking troll if you don't see how well designed gadgets are.

[Sora1499]

I'm not totally sure, but I think that this is supposed to be a TER thread. I could be wrong though.

[玄魔の王]

I'm not totally sure, but I think that this is supposed to be a TER thread. I could be wrong though.

That's what I said a few posts ago. Let's continue with that.

 

So does anybody else feat this thing in Piper decks?

 

 

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