Let's have a legit discussion about [Trap Hole]

[Strider Tigerwolf]

 

Fasinating, isn't it? Discuss

[NeoRWBY65]

it can destroy cards with 1000-1400 ATK, which bottomless can't, but it doesn't react to special summons.

[Tenoè]

It hits nothing relevant this format that Bottomless doesn't.

[Lonk]

We all know someone with a trap hole.

 

And generally, Bottomless Trap Hole outclasses this card of the power range.  However, Fascinating Fiends make this card playable for obvious reasons.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

The very fact that this can potently kill LaDD is quite fascinating imo.

 

And it severs as a form of minor stun/disruption that's now searchable and non-negatable.

[TheKaitoKid]

Card was actually a decent tech during the Inzektor/Rabbit/Dragon format since it caught Dragonfly, Guaiba/Normal Summoned Vanilla Dino and TGU. Now it's not anywhere near as relevant.

[Sora1499]

I remember one time when I was playing old Merlans and I summoned undine, and I was gonna pitch infantry to pop the guy's lone grapha and go for game, but then he sprung this fucker on me. The cards isn't as good this format though because lol@normal summon

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

fascinating fiends dont really make this playable since its almost always dead past turn 1. and bottomless can also kill ladd in that deck because atora provides the same benefits. additionally, bottomless doesnt send it to grave to activate that other effect so *shrug*

[newhat]

It's not useless, especially against Fire Fists, but there's no point when there are better dunktraps available.

[Dementuo]

The very fact that this can potently kill LaDD is quite fascinating imo.

I see what you did there

 

And guys, remember that (At least in Fascinating Fiends) Bottomless is only two cards of the deck. Why do you think they run this, Void, and their own Trap Hole as well?

[Turtlegary]

Just play Book of Moon/Tsukuyomi on an opponent's Exceed/Synchro etc. and next turn they flip summon it and...

[Resident Fascist]

Just play Book of Moon/Tsukuyomi on an opponent's Exceed/Synchro etc. and next turn they flip summon it and...

 

Implying you'll be alive long enough to summon Tsukuyomi, book their monster, have it bounce back, probably have an empty board and wait for them to flip it. Even so, Trap Hole won't do crap to the big decks. They all either OTK you, or drop a Dress. Prophecy special summon all of their major monsters, it can't hit Spellbook Magician, so that's out. Evilswarm run Backrow Protection out of the butthole so that's also out. Elemental Dragons special summon all of their big guys and don't really even care about Trap Hole since they can push for game so easily. Fire Fist will probably pop it before it will activate and even then it's not overly relevant against them. Bujins summon Yamato turn 1 and sit behind it the whole game, with Hetsuka able to protect it later in the game and Dress you're not likely to resolve this going second and even if you do hit their first Yamato they can easily just Tenki up a second.

[Dementuo]

Implying you'll be alive long enough to summon Tsukuyomi, book their monster, have it bounce back, probably have an empty board and wait for them to flip it. Even so, Trap Hole won't do crap to the big decks. They all either OTK you, or drop a Dress. Prophecy special summon all of their major monsters, it can't hit Spellbook Magician, so that's out. Evilswarm run Backrow Protection out of the butthole so that's also out. Elemental Dragons special summon all of their big guys and don't really even care about Trap Hole since they can push for game so easily. Fire Fist will probably pop it before it will activate and even then it's not overly relevant against them. Bujins summon Yamato turn 1 and sit behind it the whole game, with Hetsuka able to protect it later in the game and Dress you're not likely to resolve this going second and even if you do hit their first Yamato they can easily just Tenki up a second.

Don't bring the metagame into this. No one thinks that this deck would work exceptionally as tier 1. No one does.

Saying that the deck would fail against the metagame is just redundant. Everyone knows that the only decks capable of holding their own are Spellbooks, E-Dragons, Evilswarm, Fire Fist, and Merlanteans. What we're discussing here is the card in relation to everything else. The meta is so terrible right now that, really, trying to discuss ANY card that isn't some sort of super-side against the top decks would only result in "too slow/weak/bad, outclassed/not good enough, next", and this is exactly the kind of discussion that we don't want.

[Resident Fascist]

Don't bring the metagame into this. No one thinks that this deck would work exceptionally as tier 1. No one does.

Saying that the deck would fail against the metagame is just redundant. Everyone knows that the only decks capable of holding their own are Spellbooks, E-Dragons, Evilswarm, Fire Fist, and Merlanteans. What we're discussing here is the card in relation to everything else. The meta is so terrible right now that, really, trying to discuss ANY card that isn't some sort of super-side against the top decks would only result in "too slow/weak/bad, outclassed/not good enough, next", and this is exactly the kind of discussion that we don't want.

 

 When you tell me to not talk about a card's applications, or lack thereof against the biggest and most played decks of the format because it's "the kind of discussion we don't want" is kinda defeating the point. Why would I play this card when most every game it will suck, and and in the others, have a minimal effect? I never even mentioned Mesmerizing Maneaters/Kowakuma/Fascinating Fiends once and you assume I'm talking about them? Who cares? They exist, they have better Trap Holes to use. Even from a non metagame perspective, there are traps you would consider far before this one. Torrential. Dimensional Prison. Bottomless. Mirror Force. Treacherous. Evac Device. Even without a busted ass metagame like the current metagame, the card is still bad and just because Kowakumas exist doesn't suddenly make it good. They have better options.

[Agro]

It'd be cooler if Normal Summons were still a thing.

[Dementuo]

 When you tell me to not talk about a card's applications, or lack thereof against the biggest and most played decks of the format because it's "the kind of discussion we don't want" is kinda defeating the point. Why would I play this card when most every game it will suck, and and in the others, have a minimal effect? I never even mentioned Mesmerizing Maneaters/Kowakuma/Fascinating Fiends once and you assume I'm talking about them? Who cares? They exist, they have better Trap Holes to use. Even from a non metagame perspective, there are traps you would consider far before this one. Torrential. Dimensional Prison. Bottomless. Mirror Force. Treacherous. Evac Device. Even without a busted ass metagame like the current metagame, the card is still bad and just because Kowakumas exist doesn't suddenly make it good. They have better options.

You realize you're only proving my point by continuing to shout about the meta, right? You're not adding anything to the discussion, you're just saying the same thing.

And I was the one who brought up Fascinating Fiends, since this card actually does do well in that deck. If anything, I'm curious about these "Better options" that you're talking about, when I just explicitly mentioned Void and Fascinating Trap Holes in my last post, which are used alongside this Trap Hole and Bottomless.

[Wildflame]

Sometimes you can use it, sometimes not, but most of the times it won't help you when you are in a pinch. Run 2 at most in Fascinating Fiends, preferably 1.

[Resident Fascist]

You realize you're only proving my point by continuing to shout about the meta, right? You're not adding anything to the discussion, you're just saying the same thing.

 

I'm adding to the discussion in the sense I'm saying this card is complete shit. As for the better options, Void + BTH + Fascinating should be enough Trap Holes. You can search them. No need to run this. If you're playing a card on the grounds that it sucks against almost every big deck in the format but may be okay against that one kid running some random obscure 60 card highlander, you may want to reconsider waiting for a better format for the card. Which will probably be never.

[Dementuo]

I'm adding to the discussion in the sense I'm saying this card is complete shit. As for the better options, Void + BTH + Fascinating should be enough Trap Holes. You can search them. No need to run this. If you're playing a card on the grounds that it sucks against almost every big deck in the format but may be okay against that one kid running some random obscure 60 card highlander, you may want to reconsider waiting for a better format for the card. Which will probably be never.

Firstly, I'm not saying the card is good, I'm saying that it has uses and that's what we should be discussing.

Second, I'm not saying that it should be run because of "That one kid running some random obscure 60 card highlander", I'm saying it should be run because it has useful applications in the deck that it's meant to be run in.

And third. Generally, running 6 Trap Holes isn't really enough, assuming that you wouldn't be crazy enough to run 3 Void and 3 Fascinating. Even if you're only running 1 of this, that's still an extra trap. Even with the ability to search any of the Trap Holes, you aren't guaranteed to draw into a bunch of them, the same goes with the searchers. That's why the other two fiends exist, to work with the Trap Holes that you do draw into.

[Resident Fascist]

I'm saying it should be run because it has useful applications in the deck that it's meant to be run in.

 

These useful applications are? All I see is a card that whiffs against 9/10 decks created since 2008. I get the idea but the card really is mediocre, and using the effect of justifying this mediocre card because it can be searched when there are far better, and more usable options against the recent decks is baffling. You can run 3 Fascinating if you really want,  therefore, you have "10" Trap Holes. 3 Fascinating, 2 Void and 2 Bottomless. You have 3 of the searcher, meaning any hand of the searcher can inherently also contain any of those 3 cards. 10 cards is 1/4 of your deck. And roughly half or more of your trap lineup in this case will be Trap Holes. That should be enough without even touching this card. Even if you opt to go 2/2/2, you still have "9" Trap Holes. As long as Trion has a target and it's decent, that should be fine. Provided you aren't flooded with Trap Holes in your opening hand, 6-7 should be enough, I don't see why you'd need more.

[wero-vasto]

OH MY GORZ! I didn't know TH target.

 

OT: Meeh card, until a new "Trap Hole" card comes out, running it at a fascinating 1 cause 2 is too much.