Number 69: Heraldry Crest

[Synchronized]

Granted, Ourobouros is pretty good, I kinda forgot he's a card now.

 

There are times when I'm actually more tempted to go for Ouroborous than Shock Master because of the fact that Pandemic is a card and I don't have to worry about it getting screwed once it hits the field.  Again it all depends on the Deck but 2750 is nothing to laugh at and it easily pays for its own investment

 

Have you guys even read Mahunder, Pahunder, and Batteryman AAA? Also lol@thunderspark is bad.

 

I didn't say Thunderspark was bad, I just said it wasn't really a contender for "Best Rank 4 with 3 materials" because there's Shock, Ouroborous, and then Disigma all of which are far more useful in most situations.  It's just not really all that relevant at the moment.  I'm aware that Hunders can do some silly shit but I've yet to see that demonstrated on a level where I'd actually consider 91 a viable contender.

[Blake]

[quote name="Alestaire" post="6197033" timestamp="1368113498"]I didn't say Thunderspark was bad, I just said it wasn't really a contender for "Best Rank 4 with 3 materials" because there's Shock, Ouroborous, and then Disigma all of which are far more useful in most situations.  It's just not really all that relevant at the moment.  I'm aware that Hunders can do some silly shit but I've yet to see that demonstrated on a level where I'd actually consider 91 a viable contender.[/quote] ... Disigma's worse than 91, what the hell are you on about ._. Hunders don't even run Disigma, at all. The only time Disigma tends to be of any use is Vs. Machina Fortress or Grapha, and any other time it's job is done better by 91 or Ouroboros. Test after test after test after test as shown that it really, really is not worth it when the other options exist. 104 is even better than Disigma, as it makes pushing for games way easier in a lot of cases, and actually has a respectable body to match it. Shark Drake's really good for pushes that DON'T involve a clear field, and while it's the first to be cut, it still takes precedence over Disigma because of the fact that it isn't just marginally useful when you have other stuff in the Extra. Hell, in this format, I'd run 69 before Disigma.

[Zazubat]

I think that calling Disigma bad is pretty silly, as most Decks only run 1 Attribute, WATER for Mails, FIRE for Fists, and DARK for Evilswarm and Dark World, and while there are many other options I would pick over that, if I got some space, having that hard handy can win you games (So can Thunder Spark, Ouroborous (I forgot it wasn't an Evilsawrm exclusive, otherwise I would probably have said that) and heck, maybe even this Number 104 as it can avoid Honest, and can be used multiple times plus it got pretty nice ATK at 2700). Which I would put as number 2-4 is hard to say, since Ouro's return effect can only be used once per turn, and only during your own turn as well, it's still probably the most useful 3 mats, where I do like Spark as well, as it can get every Material in the grave at once, and leave an open field for your other fun stuff. There's also Shark Drake, which can be annoying, though why you wouldn't just go for direct, or get rid of their other monsters I don't know, but I suppose it allows itself to attack other things, and then you just attack with your lower ATK monsters on that card. This card is about maybe number 6-7 on my list.

[Blake]

I think that calling Disigma bad is pretty silly, as most Decks only run 1 Attribute, WATER for Mails, FIRE for Fists, and DARK for Evilswarm and Dark World, and while there are many other options I would pick over that, if I got some space, having that hard handy can win you games (So can Thunder Spark, Ouroborous (I forgot it wasn't an Evilsawrm exclusive, otherwise I would probably have said that) and heck, maybe even this Number 104 as it can avoid Honest, and can be used multiple times plus it got pretty nice ATK at 2700). Which I would put as number 2-4 is hard to say, since Ouro's return effect can only be used once per turn, and only during your own turn as well, it's still probably the most useful 3 mats, where I do like Spark as well, as it can get every Material in the grave at once, and leave an open field for your other fun stuff. There's also Shark Drake, which can be annoying, though why you wouldn't just go for direct, or get rid of their other monsters I don't know, but I suppose it allows itself to attack other things, and then you just attack with your lower ATK monsters on that card. This card is about maybe number 6-7 on my list.

Tell me more about how stealing a non-recurring boss is better than simply killing it and whatever else they have, in the long run. Tell me more about how Mermails/Fire Fists can't negate Disigma, how Incarnates give a fuck about Disigma, how Evilswarm can't just kill/steal it, how Prophecy remotely care.

 

Disigma's a minor, MINOR disruption against most things, only being remotely major against Machina Fortress and sometimes Grapha, and even Grapha's a fairly laughable one. You just take Grapha so it doesn't go back to the grave again.

 

The only reason it's actually good against Machina is because of the fact that it makes disposing of Fortress easier.

[Zazubat]

Tell me more about how stealing a non-recurring boss is better than simply killing it and whatever else they have, in the long run. Tell me more about how Mermails/Fire Fists can't negate Disigma, how Incarnates give a fuck about Disigma, how Evilswarm can't just kill/steal it, how Prophecy remotely care.

 

Disigma's a minor, MINOR disruption against most things, only being remotely major against Machina Fortress and sometimes Grapha, and even Grapha's a fairly laughable one. You just take Grapha so it doesn't go back to the grave again.

 

The only reason it's actually good against Machina is because of the fact that it makes disposing of Fortress easier.

Did you forget the fact that it destroys any of the monsters it battles with the same Attribute? Yes, they can steal it, but they can also steal other monsters if that was the case, so what's your point? I would also say that not putting back their E-Dragons (I didn't mention these, as it doesn't do good all too much of anything againts them) Mermails and Evilswarm is a good idea, cause that's how they kinda play. At least, from what I have seen. And Prochecy can just take it out easily, it can take pretty much anything out, and if your intend is to counter them with a Mat 3, you are probably not going for this, but for Shock Master.

 

Either way, this is not really the topic at hand is it? This is about Heraldry.

[evilfusion]

So the name is officially "Heraldry Crest"?

 

Told you it was a "Heraldry", not "Heraldic". The Japanese's use of "Medallion" has always been translated as Heraldry so far. And Crest > Emblem, so I'm fine with it. Coat of Arms would have been cool, but oh well.

 

And it occurred to me the Ultimate Rare might look badass...

[Blake]

Did you forget the fact that it destroys any of the monsters it battles with the same Attribute? Yes, they can steal it, but they can also steal other monsters if that was the case, so what's your point? I would also say that not putting back their E-Dragons (I didn't mention these, as it doesn't do good all too much of anything againts them) Mermails and Evilswarm is a good idea, cause that's how they kinda play. At least, from what I have seen. And Prochecy can just take it out easily, it can take pretty much anything out, and if your intend is to counter them with a Mat 3, you are probably not going for this, but for Shock Master.

Tell me more about how Mermails/Fire Fists can't negate Disigma,

The only reason it's actually good against Machina is because of the fact that it makes disposing of Fortress easier.

I kinda mentioned the effect destruction, right here.

Disigma's just not worth it. You've not made any points to the contrary. The point is that while, yes, this is an answer, it doesn't answer anything any better than anything else.

Ouroboros gives no fucks about Dress, pre-emptive or otherwise, so Disigma has no edge there. Safe Zone hurts Disigma just as much as Ouroboros. So that's Evilswarms out. If either succeeds, they still have other outs to them, such as Bahamut or Diamond Dire Wolf and so forth.

See Mermail/Fire Fist above.

Prophecy give no fucks, as you admitted.

Dark Worlds barely give a damn, given how the deck works. They just draw and draw, and they have access to Rank 3/4/especially 8s that give 0 fucks about Disigma. Congrats, you stopped /1/ Grapha. If they have Graphas left in deck, they don't care. If the other two are in Grave, they don't care.

Disigma isn't outright BAD, but it's nowhere near the first choices for use.

OT: Using this to copy Shock Master is so much fun, and just won me a game.

[~British Soul~]

And it occurred to me the Ultimate Rare might look badass...

This is just regular Rare though.

[Zazubat]

I kinda mentioned the effect destruction, right here.

Disigma's just not worth it. You've not made any points to the contrary. The point is that while, yes, this is an answer, it doesn't answer anything any better than anything else.

Ouroboros gives no fucks about Dress, pre-emptive or otherwise, so Disigma has no edge there. Safe Zone hurts Disigma just as much as Ouroboros. So that's Evilswarms out. If either succeeds, they still have other outs to them, such as Bahamut or Diamond Dire Wolf and so forth.

See Mermail/Fire Fist above.

Prophecy give no fucks, as you admitted.

Dark Worlds barely give a damn, given how the deck works. They just draw and draw, and they have access to Rank 3/4/especially 8s that give 0 fucks about Disigma. Congrats, you stopped /1/ Grapha. If they have Graphas left in deck, they don't care. If the other two are in Grave, they don't care.

Disigma isn't outright BAD, but it's nowhere near the first choices for use.

OT: Using this to copy Shock Master is so much fun, and just won me a game.

Yes, there's a lot of times where Shock Master is better. VS Prophecy with Spells, VS Evilswarm/Elemental/Dark World/Mails Monsters, VS I dunno, maybe Fire Fists in a bit, but not really Traps. It's all around, 99 % of the time better. But that doesn't mean that this isn't worth running if you have the space, as there's times I wish I had this, so I could quickly finish somebody off, or get rid of their monster easily, which I couldn't if I tried to go into Shock, as it got the same ATK and doens't get rid of monsters. Also remember that Shock hurts you as well. You seem to have gotten to the point, where it's not your first use, rahter than you just pointed at it calling it useless, which is good, as it isn't useless, just... situational.

[Blake]

Yes, there's a lot of times where Shock Master is better. VS Prophecy with Spells, VS Evilswarm/Elemental/Dark World/Mails Monsters, VS I dunno, maybe Fire Fists in a bit, but not really Traps. It's all around, 99 % of the time better. But that doesn't mean that this isn't worth running if you have the space, as there's times I wish I had this, so I could quickly finish somebody off, or get rid of their monster easily, which I couldn't if I tried to go into Shock, as it got the same ATK and doens't get rid of monsters. Also remember that Shock hurts you as well. You seem to have gotten to the point, where it's not your first use, rahter than you just pointed at it calling it useless, which is good, as it isn't useless, just... situational.

... Are you incapable of reading or what? I'm not comparing it to Shock Master. At all. You shouldn't compare ANY 3 Mat R4 to Shock Master, and you should really go back and read my posts where I compared it to Ouroboros and Thunder Spark.

There are times I wish I ran a second Fabled Ragin. Does that mean I should?

My entire point has been that Disigma does NOT warrant space over anything else. Ouroboros, 91, 16 (Nto comparing, just saying), 104, 32, and arguably this ALL deserve slots before Disigma because they have uses that are not, for the most part, covered by other cards in the Extra Deck.

Disigma ISN'T a bad card. I just said this. It's just outclassed in 99% of cases by other ED cards.

[evilfusion]

This is just regular Rare though.

 

Unless the system changed, all Rares+, excluding Secrets, can be printed in Ultimate Rare. This may be a mere rare, but it should have an Ultimate Rare version. Again, unless the Ultimate Rare system changed.

 

Coat of Arms requires a specific scenario to be really good, which is why it's outclassed by the more generic scenario 3 Mat Rank 4s.

[Zazubat]

... Are you incapable of reading or what? I'm not comparing it to Shock Master. At all. You shouldn't compare ANY 3 Mat R4 to Shock Master, and you should really go back and read my posts where I compared it to Ouroboros and Thunder Spark.

There are times I wish I ran a second Fabled Ragin. Does that mean I should?

My entire point has been that Disigma does NOT warrant space over anything else. Ouroboros, 91, 16 (Nto comparing, just saying), 104, 32, and arguably this ALL deserve slots before Disigma because they have uses that are not, for the most part, covered by other cards in the Extra Deck.

Disigma ISN'T a bad card. I just said this. It's just outclassed in 99% of cases by other ED cards.

I was comparing it to it. All the other examples are as well above those in terms of how I would Rank them, as I said, this is around number 6-7 on my list of those I would choose, maybe even higher, and if I did have space for it, and there was nothing else I really needed, I would put it in, or at least side it.

[Blake]

If you're running more than 4-5 3 Mat R4s, even in Hunders, you're bad. Disigma and 69 are 6/7 on the list, based on preference and any given format. It's possible a format could boost them more, but as is, they're just not the best.

Hell, I teched 69 for fun, and it's won games, but it's certainly not the best. I'm not arguing that it's bad, I'm arguing that if you can run multiple of 3 Mat R4s, you don't need to run Disigma before most of the others, because it doesn't do anything that isn't covered by 91 or Ouroboros more often than not.

And siding ED monsters is generally bad

[Aerion Brightflame]

I was comparing it to it. All the other examples are as well above those in terms of how I would Rank them, as I said, this is around number 6-7 on my list of those I would choose, maybe even higher, and if I did have space for it, and there was nothing else I really needed, I would put it in, or at least side it.

 

You'll never have the space for it though.

 

Since there's all the 2 Material Rank 4's as well before you even consider the 3 Materials.

 

So Disigma is just horribly outclassed, and will not see Extra deck places for along long time.

[Zazubat]

Hmm, I guess I don't really use it that much, I just feel like I'm gonna bite myself in the ass someday when I can't win because I didn't put this in. And yeah, 2 Mats are way better and more useful for the most part, so those are of course in first line, than Rank 4s.

[~British Soul~]

Unless the system changed, all Rares+, excluding Secrets, can be printed in Ultimate Rare. This may be a mere rare, but it should have an Ultimate Rare version. Again, unless the Ultimate Rare system changed.

Yeah, that system changed AGES ago. The system only existed from Soul of the Duelist - Force of the Breaker.

[evilfusion]

Yeah, that system changed AGES ago. The system only existed from Soul of the Duelist - Force of the Breaker.

 

Oh, I see. After that, they changed it to only Ultra Rares got Ultimate Rares. Eww...I guess I just never noticed because some of my most recent Ultimate pulls were awful cards, like Mara of the Nordic Alfar or Zekt Conversion.

[~British Soul~]

Oh, I see. After that, they changed it to only Ultra Rares got Ultimate Rares. Eww...I guess I just never noticed because some of my most recent Ultimate pulls were awful cards, like Mara of the Nordic Alfar or Zekt Conversion.

In that case, I don't blame you that you thought all rares/supers/ultras came in ultimate.