Sort-of-mana-system for YGO... kind of format.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

Actually sleepy, that's almost the same consequence that MtG players face when deck building "multi-color" decks, usually of 3 colors or more. It's something that balances use of certain cards with certain decks and makes Deck Building more of a challenge (that's my point of view anyway, so it could be wrong).

 

The same applies in Yugioh. I tried building Glad Beasts as a test and it's very difficult to play these "archtype" multi-attribute decks and although they are not unplayable, they are at an unfair advantage...so why not:

 

 

 

-Using a mana card that has the same "archtype name" to play an "archtype name" card counts for any color.

[Sleepy]

As in "Wind-Up" for "Wind-Up" or "Elemental HERO" for "Elemental HERO"?

That could be interesting. I mean while it would count with many of the restrictions already present in MTG, we must also not forget that YGO shares a lot of extra restrictions that MTG doesn't.

They still have limited Zones on the field

They still have the "1 Normal Summon each turn" restriction

They still need Tributes/Materials for big monsters along with the mana

MTG doesn't need to Set cards for backrow

Much of the support out there is archetype-specific on top of the already good Attribute restrictions the format already has.

 

 

I guess it could work for when a deck is meant to play as an archetype, though the example I used above "HERO" makes the idea a bit tricky. 

It is possible, but I'd still like other opinions because I can't help but think I'm missing some important repercussion somewhere.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

"HERO" in itself is an archtype, just a very very large one...But yeah, you get the picture.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

Since madolches return to deck effect is manditory you wouldn't have need to pay a mana cost for it correct?

[Sleepy]

Since madolches return to deck effect is manditory you wouldn't have need to pay a mana cost for it correct?

 Correct. Their "shuffle into the Deck" effect is mandatory.

Magieliene's searching effect needs 1 mana though. Everthing that gives you the option of doing it or not will cost you. Monarchs are also pretty much free of mana cost there iirc what their wording is.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

@sleepy - With the exception of Kuraz, Delg and Mobius...since they're optional.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

 Correct. Their "shuffle into the Deck" effect is mandatory.

Magieliene's searching effect needs 1 mana though. Everthing that gives you the option of doing it or not will cost you. Monarchs are also pretty much free of mana cost there iirc what their wording is.

What about Chateau?

 

And from where do you play the mana from? Your hand? It isn't stated where in the op.

[Sleepy]

What about Chateau?

 

And from where do you play the mana from? Your hand? It isn't stated where in the op.

Hmm I thought I did. It's up to 1 from your hand each turn. It makes them not as lucky to pull as top-decked Lands, but you need to give-away something that otherwise might be part of your strategy.

 

Madolche Chateau's activation is 2 mana of any color (attribute or S/Ts, whatever really works).

It's +ATK effect is there on it's own, it's "shuffle Grave into the deck" effect also comes on it's own. 

The optional part of returning them to hand, however, is what costs you 1 mana per usage. Way more expensive than your usual Madolche play xD

 

 

 

@sleepy - With the exception of Kuraz, Delg and Mobius...since they're optional.

If they are optional, then they cost. So yeah =D

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

Hmm, also your op doesn't state the mana cost for traps.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

It does...its just they "type" of card.

[Sleepy]

Hmm, also your op doesn't state the mana cost for traps.

I didn't want to get EVEN more complex about these things. So you just need to care about the Icon for that. Normal Traps and Normal Spells are roughly the same price, etc.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

There's another reason I would suggest "Archtype" mana.

 

[Sleepy]

You can try it with that rule and tell me how it went.

It'll be better as a test if you try it against a non-archetype deck to see how it goes (I'm curious)

I talked about this format with my brother IRL, he didn't seem to like this one so, I will only have it in theory over here.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

From testing vs. Madolches against D.A., archtype rule seems to be necessary. I just played with Gladiator Fist...and if they're restricted to only "Attribute Mana", they can't play at all. They can't even summon Gyzarus.

[Sleepy]

From testing vs. Madolches against D.A., archtype rule seems to be necessary. I just played with Gladiator Fist...and if they're restricted to only "Attribute Mana", they can't play at all. They can't even summon Gyzarus.

Alright. I'll do that.

After all, the main idea is to slow the game and limit the amount of options per turn, not kill off decks.

 

 

BTW, do you Main Deck Doriado? She's like, most colors of Mana by herself.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

BTW, do you Main Deck Doriado? She's like, most colors of Mana by herself.

I might consider doing that :o completely forgot about Homonculus and Doriado. Those are probably staples.

 

 

I think...I should state these:

 

 

 

Standards:

3 Doriado

3 Homonculus the Alchmec Being

 

These are probably staples in all but a few DARK decks.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

So normal traps cost 3 O.O That's insane.

 

So counter traps cost 1? That's even crazier........

[Strider Tigerwolf]

A little update. "Archtype mana" seems to save these decks. However, D.A. feels it may be overpowering due to the fact that Spells and Traps that fall under the archtype gives it an unfair edge. I really don't see this especially since mana would flow like so:

 

"Archtype" Spell/Trap counts as: 1 "Archtype" mana OR 1 Colorless mana

"Archtype" Monster counts as: 1 "Archtype" mana OR 1 "Attribute" mana

 

@D.A.

 

Actually, it would be:

 

Ritual Spells/Traps = 1 Colorless Mana

Continuous, Counter, Field, Equip Spells/Traps = 2 Mana

Normal, Quick-Play Spells/Traps = 3 Mana

 

It's actually reasonable since the most "useful" tend to fall into category 3. I'm also taking this into account even further since it's still a bit weird.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

A little update. "Archtype mana" seems to save these decks. However, D.A. feels it may be overpowering due to the fact that Spells and Traps that fall under the archtype gives it an unfair edge. I really don't see this especially since mana would flow like so:

 

"Archtype" Spell/Trap counts as: 1 "Archtype" mana OR 1 Colorless mana

"Archtype" Monster counts as: 1 "Archtype" mana OR 1 "Attribute" mana

 

@D.A.

 

Actually, it would be:

 

Ritual Spells/Traps = 1 Colorless Mana

Continuous, Counter, Field, Equip Spells/Traps = 2 Mana

Normal, Quick-Play Spells/Traps = 3 Mana

 

It's actually reasonable since the most "useful" tend to fall into category 3. I'm also taking this into account even further since it's still a bit weird.

Normal Traps dont even seem to be worth running if their going to be 3 mana.

 

Like here's an example. I set 1 Jar of greed. I then have to wait the grueling 3 turns till I can play it. Buy that point though why would I when I could play duality? I mean if your playing duality the odds of you having the mana to ss anyways is unlikely & i get to decide from 3 cards. The same could even be said about reckless since the hand really takes a toll what with all the mana you have to play to do stuff.

 

Sure there's torrential/bottomless but are they really worth 3 to play? I don't really think so.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

Torrential imo is worth the 3. And frankly so is Bottomless, and Compulsory, and D. Prison, etc.

 

And Jar of Greed being submitted to these conditions really does decrease the efficiency of Exodia and Alt win conditions.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

Torrential imo is worth the 3. And frankly so is Bottomless, and Compulsory, and D. Prison, etc.

 

And Jar of Greed being submitted to these conditions really does decrease the efficiency of Exodia and Alt win conditions.

So your saying wasting an additional turn (cause you actually have to save mana in most cases) which your opp. would clearly see through cause you saved mana and have a face-down) to get rid of (in most cases) 1 monster, is worth it? I can see torrential being worth it but nothing else.

 

Also, instead of Arch-type mana why not monster type & Attribute mana?

[Sleepy]

So your saying wasting an additional turn (cause you actually have to save mana in most cases) which your opp. would clearly see through cause you saved mana and have a face-down) to get rid of (in most cases) 1 monster, is worth it? I can see torrential being worth it but nothing else.

 

Also, instead of Arch-type mana why not monster type & Attribute mana?

Yes it is worth it. There is not as much swarm as it would normally happen. Remember when Sakuretsu was a decent alternative to Mirror Force? yeah..

 

Besides, Jar of Greed is not exactly "the best card ever" regardless of the format.

This is not supposed to give ALL outclassed cards a fighting chance, just shift the game in another direction for the sake of entertainment. Whatever is good in this new enviroment is a question of discovery. 

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

Yes it is worth it. There is not as much swarm as it would normally happen. Remember when Sakuretsu was a decent alternative to Mirror Force? yeah..

 

Besides, Jar of Greed is not exactly "the best card ever" regardless of the format.

This is not supposed to give ALL outclassed cards a fighting chance, just shift the game in another direction for the sake of entertainment. Whatever is good in this new enviroment is a question of discovery. 

There isn't more swarm yes. But, by the time you have the mana for them you could already be screwed to all hell by just plain old Normal Summons. 

 

Turn 1, play mana & NS. Turn 2 Play mana & Normal summon with an atk. Turn 3, play a mana NS atk two times. & Bare in mind this is just from the view point of the person going 1st. Also, it becomes increasingly lower that you'll even add mana the longer time goes on. I mean in our tests the highest mana either of us got was 6. You can bet that we went over 6 turns too.

[Sleepy]

By your turn 3, you can only attack twice if you Normal Summoned.

 

Also, how long was the Duel?

Finally, I'm also still curious for more examples, because there is such a thing as cheap Defense while you gather move mana. There is such a thing as a "late game player" that takes the hits from the faster players that play smaller stuff, in exchange for being able to screw you up later on. That style hasn't appeared yet, has it?

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

By your turn 3, you can only attack twice if you Normal Summoned.

 

Also, how long was the Duel?

Finally, I'm also still curious for more examples, because there is such a thing as cheap Defense while you gather move mana. There is such a thing as a "late game player" that takes the hits from the faster players that play smaller stuff, in exchange for being able to screw you up later on. That style hasn't appeared yet, has it?

That was a mis type, my apologies and to be honest I don't think a late game player is even possible how it's made out. 

 

You would have to constantly each turn put mana in play and do almost nothing. Sue you can chump block but that in of itself takes another card away from your hand. So by your third turn you would have next to no hand. If you didn't chump block though by turn three you'd have a 5 card hand but then what? You dark hole & clear their board? Sure that sounds good in theory but is it really? It buys you a turn or two but that's about it.

 

Now me playing Madolche did allow me to get a fair amount of maintained advantage (mainly cause during three of those games I had a starting hand that consisted of Magi) but I did still have to wait a bit before i got the ball rolling.

 

As for how long the duels got, i would say around 10-12 turns for each of us.