Replacement for Exodia the Forbidden One

[AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW]

You say this like this is a fact.. while it is just your opinion.

 It's not exactly that. When making a card, designing it so that it allows for an interactive experience and fun helps it to get better reception by the user, the opponent, and anyone else. Like Grapha, the Dark World dragon guy, for example. It is a generally disliked card because it can re-Special Summon itself very easily and spams all too much for an opponent's liking. By no means is it exactly broken in the current format, but the whole easy-to-revive idea just did not work well with that card's reception.
 

This card is sent to the Graveyard during the End Phase of the turn in which it was summoned, giving you no second chances to attack with or use this card.

That's why I said the Exodia player would not do anything until it has a chance to go for game. You aren't going to Summon Exodia on the first chance possible when the only monster on your opponent's side of the field is a face-down monster. Given the nature of Exodia Decks, making such a mistake would disable the Deck, leaving it with no chance of winning. This is also not a good idea because the Deck does one thing and one thing only: Draw into Exodia for an attack with infinite damage.

[vla1ne]

You are still arguing that the lesser of two evils is not evil. That's like saying that Heavy Storm is an alright card to have because it's less powerful than Harpie's Feather Duster. The truth is that Heavy Storm is an evil card as well that works as a safeguard for OTKs, and the only thing keeping it in the game is that it makes it risky for players to Set all of their backrow, therefore encouraging strategy and skill. If it weren't for that, then Heavy Storm would have stayed on the banlist forever. This card is slightly better than Exodia design-wise, but saying that it is a nicely done card is wrong.

I never said that this Exodia was a well-designed(but I will now say that in comparison to the actual one, it is.), what i'm saying is its still a better card than the current Exodia.

 

Your entire argument seems to be that this Exodia is too hard to stop, or it's infinite atk is a problem, but have you stopped to consider that this card is actually better for the game than the current Exodia?

 

The current Exodia has an effect that literally kills ALL interaction, this one might be hard to stop, but at least you have a chance to prepare for it. and so what if it encourages a otk strategy, it would take more than enough time to set one up anyways, and while one lost card/ missed opportunity might kill the Exodia deck's  chances at otk winning due to the strict requirements for victory, every other deck has cards that back them up if they make any mistakes and usually has multiple cooperative engines.

 

It would make cards that are less run more important than they would be otherwise. cards like Enchanted Javelin/Rainbow Life are not bad, they are just overshadowed by other cards that happen to work better in the current Metagame, they have good design, but they are overlooked in favor of more powerful cards. 

 

Infinite LP would mean that the duel would either be a draw, or a deck out match. And a deck out match is the very definition of using all the cards at your disposal. Localized tornado? that card is considered to be just as bad an option as enchanted javelin, so they would both gain a boost in importance. and Sebek's blessing isn't even an option for this Exodia, he's a one-shot that wins by hitting your opponent. Sebek triggers after the hit, so it's literally a moot card.

 

Like I said before: Exodia is MEANT to be a win condition. at least this way you stand a chance after he goes off. Just side in a  Chaos Hunter, or a Krystia, or any card that prevents special summons, like an Ophion, or either solemn, and this deck goes down fast. none of those would work on the current Exodia, but they would on this one.

 

In summary, because there are far more outs to this card, including the ones that already exist for the current exodia, yes, it is far better than the current Exodia, in design and in executing the effect.

[darkhorus]

Why would Enchanted Javelin be a bad card?

[AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW]

I never said that this Exodia was a well-designed(but I will now say that in comparison to the actual one, it is.), what i'm saying is its still a better card than the current Exodia.

 

Your entire argument seems to be that this Exodia is too hard to stop, or it's infinite atk is a problem, but have you stopped to consider that this card is actually better for the game than the current Exodia? I said that it is about as difficult to stop as the real Exodia because there are simply not that many outs to this card, and its infinite ATK is a problem because you win instantly just by attacking a monster and letting damage happen.

 

The current Exodia  has an effect that literally kills ALL interaction, this one might be hard to stop, but at least you have a chance to prepare for it. and so what if it encourages a otk strategy, it would take more than enough time to set one up anyways, and while one lost card/ missed opportunity might kill the Exodia decks chances at winning due to the strict requirements for victory, every other deck can have cards that back them up if they make any mistakes.

 

It would make cards that are less run more important than they would be otherwise. cards like Enchanted Javelin/Rainbow Life are not bad, they are just overshadowed by other cards that happen to work better in the current Metagame, they have good design, but they are overlooked in favor of more powerful cards. 

Yes they are. There is no normal reason in this game whatsoever to gain Life Points. Enchanted Javelin is completely outclassed by Draining Shield in practically every case to the point where it had to be errata'd to work with the user's attacks and it still sucks. Oh, and Draining Shield also sucks. And Rainbow Life can't be used very well unless you force your opponent to attack, as they would simply stop swinging for so much damage once you activate it. Plus, it has a cost just to gain a bit of Life Points.

Infinite LP would mean that the duel would either be a draw, or a deck out match. And a deck out match is the very definition of using all the cards at your disposal. Localized tornado? that card is considered to be just as bad an option as enchanted javelin, so they would both gain a boost in importance. and Sebek's blessing isn't even an option for this Exodia, i's a one-shot that wins by hitting your opponent. Sebek triggers after the hit, so it's literally a moot card. Bah, my memory. And my point IS that Localized Tornado and Enchanted Javelin are terrible cards and this card would encourage their use. They can be used in this Deck, but that does not stop them from being terrible. Their use here, by preventing you from losing ever, doesn't make them good in the slightest. Just stupid because the Exodia player can't lose.

 

Like I said before: Exodia is MEANT to be a win condition. at least this way you stand a chance after he goes off. Just side in a  Chaos Hunter, or a Krystia, or any card that prevents special summons, like an Ophion, or either solemn, and this deck goes down fast. none of those would work on the current Exodia, but they would on this one.

By meant to be a win condition, you mean meant to be badly designed? Even though RC holds cards up to a standard where things are not supposed to be piss-poor design, that does not mean AoC should be completely exempt from it. Also, saying that something is balanced just because it can be countered is not a very good argument. You can say the same thing about a Level 1 monster with 4000 ATK and no negative effects being balanced because we can have 2 Mirror Forces, TTs, and a whole lot of other things to stop it.

In summary, because there are more outs to this card, yes, it is better than the current Exodia.

 

 

Why would Enchanted Javelin be a bad card?

 

It is designed only to give you Life Points, and Life Point gain in this game is not a very useful mechanic. It only helps you to survive rather than to actually win. Then there is the fact that Draining Shield does what Javelin does, but better, and still sucks due to the whole concept of Life Point gain being bad. It is just much better to use the space to run cards that help you win by either increasing your capabilities or by hindering your opponent. Besides, preserving Life Points is better than gaining Life Points.

[vla1ne]

Most of what you said was answered at a later point in that same quote.

 

For the parts that weren't, or weren't fully covered:

"I said that it is about as difficult to stop as the real Exodia because there are simply not that many outs to this card, and its infinite ATK is a problem because you win instantly just by attacking a monster and letting damage happen."

Reflect bounder, Rainbow Life, Waboku, or Enchanted Javelin become staples in side decks. it's literally that simple.

 

"Localized Tornado and Enchanted Javelin are terrible cards and this card would encourage their use. They can be used in this Deck, but that does not stop them from being terrible. Their use here, by preventing you from losing ever, doesn't make them good in the slightest. Just stupid because the Exodia player can't lose."

running those cards, even at 2 each would slow the draw engine dramatically, thus rendering their advantage moot. and running them at 1 each means you have to rely on the luck of the draw to get them at the right time without sacrificing your draw advantage cards. and they are not bad cards, Yatagarasu is a bad card, thousand eyes idol(without thousand eyes restrict) is a bad card,

Localized Tornado and Enchanted Javelin can be used in any deck and I Have used localized tornado in my frog deck to great effect until I found better cards, they are just overshadowed because their effects have no use in the Metagame. if a card comes along that makes them viable they are no longer overshadowed, and thus are no longer unused. for examples see:

Rescue Cat - was considered a bad card until it was used to top a ycs

Mass Driver - the frog engine made this card a beast, it was no longer unusable because it had gained a deck to belong to. (once substitoad got banned, it went back to unusable)

Cannon Soldier - see above

 

"By meant to be a win condition, you mean meant to be badly designed? Even though RC holds cards up to a standard where things are not supposed to be piss-poor design, that does not mean AoC should be completely exempt from it. Also, saying that something is balanced just because it can be countered is not a very good argument."

anything that has an Instawin ability is bad by default, that was never in question. I never called it balanced, a win condition is not supposed to be balanced, it's supposed to be a win condition, what I said was In comparison to the current exodia, you stand an infinitely better chance at winning.

 

"You can say the same thing about a Level 1 monster with 4000 ATK and no negative effects being balanced because we can have 2 Mirror Forces, TTs, and a whole lot of other things to stop it"

a level one monster with no drawbacks, be it normal or effect, with 4000 ATK is far more broken than this card could ever be. this card requires you to draw 5 specific cards, then has a 1 turn lifespan to attack you with. in addition a generic lv1 would be summon able with a ton of cards, have much more support than this card, and since you said no drawbacks, would not have either a summoning restriction, or a time limit to it's field presence. see what I'm getting at?

 

This card is a win condition. Point Blank. It's meant to be broken, It's meant to be the last card played, but the drawbacks to messing up are the loss of 5 cards from your hand and a presumably empty field seeing as you would have had to save 5 cards in your hand until you attempted to summon it, leaving no real room for anything other than draws and one-at a time sets.

 

yes it's broken once it hits field, but in order to hit field, you need to jump through more hoops than a Black Luster Soldier EotB+ Blue-Eyes Shining combo. and possibly run through half your deck to even draw the necessary cards

 

And in order to win anything after the first battle using this card, your opponent would have to be the most noob player ever by not recognizing obvious signs that you were holding the potential for this card in your hand, like having 5 cards in your hand that you won't get rid of.

 

Just because there are vey few ways around this card does not make it bad, he made it as a hypothetical replacement for Exodia. The fact that it takes more skill to effectively use this than to solitaire into Exodia is in itself, a plus. and the fact that the use of  this card against you is actually survivable makes this card infinitely better than the draw 5 = Instawin. that is the current Exodia.

[AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW]

most of what you said was answered at a later point in that same quote.
 
For the parts that weren't, or weren't fully covered:
"I said that it is about as difficult to stop as the real Exodia because there are simply not that many outs to this card, and its infinite ATK is a problem because you win instantly just by attacking a monster and letting damage happen."
Reflect bounder becomes a staple in side decks. it's literally that simple.

No, you don't run cards in the Side Deck because one card exists, and why would you ever attack Reflect Bounder with this anyway? Plus, Bounder is terrible against other Decks, so the player would want to side in a card that protects against this card while not sucking against other Decks.
 

"Localized Tornado and Enchanted Javelin are terrible cards and this card would encourage their use. They can be used in this Deck, but that does not stop them from being terrible. Their use here, by preventing you from losing ever, doesn't make them good in the slightest. Just stupid because the Exodia player can't lose."
running those cards, even at 2 each would slow the draw engine dramatically, thus rendering their advantage moot. and running them at 1 each means you have to rely on the luck of the draw to get them at the right time without sacrificing your draw advantage cards.

That does not mean it is ok to have the possibility to have infinite Life Points and the chance to never Deck out together. Localized Tornado isn't really as much of a problem as Javelin would be when it comes to the Exodia player stopping oneself from losing. Having infinite Life Points just should not ever happen.
 

"By meant to be a win condition, you mean meant to be badly designed? Even though RC holds cards up to a standard where things are not supposed to be piss-poor design, that does not mean AoC should be completely exempt from it. Also, saying that something is balanced just because it can be countered is not a very good argument."
anything that has an Instawin ability is bad by default, that was never in question. I never called it balanced, a win condition is not supposed to be balanced, it's supposed to be a win condition, what I said was In comparison to the current exodia, you stand an infinitely better chance at winning.

And if it was actually balanced, then it would be a more impressive card than it is now. And one should just try not to attempt alternate win conditions because most of the time, they just won't be fun for somebody. Like Exodia, this still doesn't allow for much interaction - much less than a normal Deck - and is pretty much just as easy to bring out as the real version. 

"You can say the same thing about a Level 1 monster with 4000 ATK and no negative effects being balanced because we can have 2 Mirror Forces, TTs, and a whole lot of other things to stop it"
a level one monster with no drawbacks, be it normal or effect, with 4000 ATK is far more broken than this card could ever be. this card requires you to draw 5 specific cards, then has a 1 turn lifespan to attack you with. in addition a generic lv1 would be summon able with a ton of cards, have much more support than this card, and since you said no drawbacks, would not have either a summoning restriction, or a time limit to it's field presence. see what I'm getting at?

 You missed the point. I didn't say that a Level 1 with 4k ATK and no negative effects would be as balanced as this. I said that the argument you made could be made for that Level 1 monster. Anything can be countered, but that does not give cards the right to be badly designed.

This card is a win condition. Point Blank. It's meant to be broken, It's meant to be the last card played, but the drawbacks to messing up are the loss of 5 cards from your hand and a presumably empty field seeing as you would have had to save 5 cards in your hand until you attempted to summon it, leaving no real room for anything other than draws and one-at a time sets.

Allowing cards to be broken is just a terrible idea. As this is AoC, anyone can make a absolutely terribly designed and broken card, and, for the most part, it will be accepted in this horrendous section. But it would be better if this was not broken and actually required more interaction between the players. But if AoC allows piss-poor design to run rampant, then it may never lose its reputation as being the toilet of YCM instead of being a place for new concepts, jokes, and balanced unrealism.

yes it's broken once it hits field, but in order to hit field, you need to jump through more hoops than a Black Luster Soldier EotB+ Blue-Eyes Shining combo. and possibly run through half your deck to even draw the necessary cards

This is about as easy to bring out as it is to assemble the real Exodia, and that isn't even that difficult to pull off if you run the correct sort of draw engine. If anything, the only real hindrance is that you can't play Pot of Duality, and that isn't necessarily in every Exodia build.

And in order to win anything after the first battle using this card, your opponent would have to be the most noob player ever by not recognizing obvious signs that you were holding the potential for this card in your hand, like having 5 cards in your hand that you won't get rid of.

So in other words, the goal to winning against this Deck is to turtle up in Defense Position until that player is ready to win in a turn? Way to get rid of player interaction completely. Instead of Yu-Gi-Oh, you're playing some sort of 100-yard dash in card game form.

Just because there are vey few ways around this card does not make it bad, he made it as a hypothetical replacement for Exodia. The fact that it takes more skill to effectively use this than to solitaire into Exodia is in itself, a plus. and the fact that the use of  this card against you is actually survivable makes this card infinitely better than the draw 5 = Instawin. that is the current Exodia.

And it would be a whole lot better if there was a better-designed replacement for Exodia, if one should even exist at all. And as I said, if an alternative win condition wants to be respected, it needs to be fun to play with and against. The method of assembling the pieces is not fun to play against, and if the strategy is messed up, it is not fun for the user. Of course it is better than the real Exodia, but it still isn't good enough design-wise.

[darkhorus]

Allowing cards to be broken is just a terrible idea. As this is AoC, anyone can make a absolutely terribly designed and broken card, and, for the most part, it will be accepted in this horrendous section. But it would be better if this was not broken and actually required more interaction between the players. But if AoC allows piss-poor design to run rampant, then it may never lose its reputation as being the toilet of YCM instead of being a place for new concepts, jokes, and balanced unrealism.

 

Why not remove this section altogether, then, and only allow for abso-realistic cards from then on?

 

And it would be a whole lot better if there was a better-designed replacement for Exodia

What would you consider a better alternative for the real Exodia than mine is? One that isn't resistent to card effects and doesn't have infinte ATK? Well then what would be the point of said card being Exodia? It's Exodia we're talking about here. Exodia is supposed to be an almighty creature in the first place. It's only normal that card effects and the such wouldn't affect it. I think an alternative for the current/real Exodia could not be toned down any more than this one.

[vla1ne]

No, you don't run cards in the Side Deck because one card exists, and why would you ever attack Reflect Bounder with this anyway? Plus, Bounder is terrible against other Decks, so the player would want to side in a card that protects against this card while not sucking against other Decks.
 

That does not mean it is ok to have the possibility to have infinite Life Points and the chance to never Deck out together. Localized Tornado isn't really as much of a problem as Javelin would be when it comes to the Exodia player stopping oneself from losing. Having infinite Life Points just should not ever happen.
 

And if it was actually balanced, then it would be a more impressive card than it is now. And one should just try not to attempt alternate win conditions because most of the time, they just won't be fun for somebody. Like Exodia, this still doesn't allow for much interaction - much less than a normal Deck - and is pretty much just as easy to bring out as the real version. 

 You missed the point. I didn't say that a Level 1 with 4k ATK and no negative effects would be as balanced as this. I said that the argument you made could be made for that Level 1 monster. Anything can be countered, but that does not give cards the right to be badly designed.

Allowing cards to be broken is just a terrible idea. As this is AoC, anyone can make a absolutely terribly designed and broken card, and, for the most part, it will be accepted in this horrendous section. But it would be better if this was not broken and actually required more interaction between the players. But if AoC allows piss-poor design to run rampant, then it may never lose its reputation as being the toilet of YCM instead of being a place for new concepts, jokes, and balanced unrealism.

This is about as easy to bring out as it is to assemble the real Exodia, and that isn't even that difficult to pull off if you run the correct sort of draw engine. If anything, the only real hindrance is that you can't play Pot of Duality, and that isn't necessarily in every Exodia build.

So in other words, the goal to winning against this Deck is to turtle up in Defense Position until that player is ready to win in a turn? Way to get rid of player interaction completely. Instead of Yu-Gi-Oh, you're playing some sort of 100-yard dash in card game form.

And it would be a whole lot better if there was a better-designed replacement for Exodia, if one should even exist at all. And as I said, if an alternative win condition wants to be respected, it needs to be fun to play with and against. The method of assembling the pieces is not fun to play against, and if the strategy is messed up, it is not fun for the user. Of course it is better than the real Exodia, but it still isn't good enough design-wise.

The game is already broken as hell the way it is now, This card might be a broken replacement for a broken card, but it is far less broken than the card it's replacing, and would be a good start at replacing Exodia.

 

So what if it's still broken? it's still better than the card it's replacing, and like I said before, the game is still gonna be broken whether or not this card exists, at least this way games against Exodia have more interaction than just: my turn/ draw engine/ GG/ bye.

 

This card introduces interaction, no matter how minor, to the formerly solitaire Exodia deck. and my largest point is, after the first match, you know everything there is that you need to know and should be able to strategize and sidedeck effectively no matter what card you prefer to use. if you lose after the first match, then you messed up big time.

 

Lets say I faced this card, and had no way to counter it in my deck. I might lose the first one, but I'm smart enough to realize that my best bet after that would be to defend, set up, and bide my time until I can go into a killing combo. or better yet, save my solemns (That I mysteriously forgot about the previous match) until he summons this monster. you can kill/restrict it at least 100 different ways, and they would all leave your opponent open the next turn. it's not as hard as you seem to believe. 

 

 

Against the current Exodia, that Is not an option, the only option against the current one is to hope your opponent doesn't draw their win. On the other hand, after the initial match against this one, r even during it, you know what you need to stop/ get past, and can dedicate all your resources to beating that one card. this means that you have one thing to focus on, and one thing only. and you can immediately do whatever you want after that threat is gone, or even before it appears if you get your cards set up first. this card could be cut down by saving your divine wrath, or even saving a solemn for it. it's not that hard. and even without those, if you have a decent defense set up, your opponent would not be able to otk you unless he magically drew into dark hole AND heavy storm on the same turn he had all 5 pieces in his hand.

 

And please keep in mind that this card is only meant to be evaluated against the current Exodia, and I do believe that this would be the better choice if only one of them was allowed to exist. Exodia's very concept is to be used for an instawin, anything less broken would not be Exodia, but a flooded down imitation like Tradetoad is to Substitoad.

 

The luck, and interactions required to win with this card means that he is less useable than Exodia for auto win, and is therefore a better card for the game than exodia is.

[AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW]

Why not remove this section altogether, then, and only allow for abso-realistic cards from then on?

 Because there are still things that do not belong in Realistic Cards, such as joke cards, concepts that aren't used in the game (like a new kind of card), and AoC provides a "newb zone" for posters who are getting into cardmaking.

What would you consider a better alternative for the real Exodia than mine is? One that isn't resistent to card effects and doesn't have infinte ATK? Well then what would be the point of said card being Exodia? It's Exodia we're talking about here. Exodia is supposed to be an almighty creature in the first place. It's only normal that card effects and the such wouldn't affect it. I think an alternative for the current/real Exodia could not be toned down any more than this one.

Being resistant to all card effects makes for an annoying monster, especially when it has an enormous ATK to prevent destruction in battle. Since you need to ditch 5 cards that suck on their own in order to Summon it, it becomes much more justifiable to allow it to even have an unrealistic ATK score of 8000. But infinity as an ATK score is just pretty dumb, since it takes out the concept of Life Points as you win by attacking anything (as well as that combo with Enchanted Javelin, to a lesser extent). Also, being resistant to all card effects would not make perfect sense as it would make it immune to Spellbinding Circle, which, as I recall, was what was used to seal him in the first place. Also, Exodius was a rather ok version of Exodia. Even though it isn't necessarily good, it at least interacts better.

The game is already broken as hell the way it is now, This card might be a broken replacement for a broken card, but it is far less broken than the card it's replacing, and would be a good start at replacing Exodia.

So you're saying "This game is broken, so let's make broken cards," Right? That's also a terrible excuse for an argument, and also, having an ATK of infinity is not solely the problem with this card. This card's Summoning method is just like the actual Exodia, which is a boring Deck to go against. The design needs to be redone so it allows for more interaction.

So what if it's still broken? it's still better than the card it's replacing, and like I said before, the game is still gonna be broken whether or not this card exists, at least this way games against Exodia have more interaction than just: my-turn-draw-engine-gg-bye.

If you use the "I don't care if it's broken, it's <whoever>" idea, then you are, obviously, saying that broken cards should be allowed to exist in the game. What I'm saying that if an Exodia replacement were to happen, it needs to either not be so automatic in its method of victory and/or be a lot more of a nicer Deck to go against.

This card introduces interaction, no matter how minor, to the formerly solitaire Exodia deck. and my largest point is, after the first match, you know everything there is that you need to know and should be able to strategize and sidedeck effectively no matter what card you prefer to use. if you lose after the first match, then you messed up big time.

Again, you're arguing, somewhat, that being able to be countered makes the card alright and that all players will have an anti-Exodia Side prepared. Sidedecks are for combating the threats of the game, currently the likes of Prophecies and Dragon Rulers. If players don't side against the actual version of Exodia, then what makes you think they will side against this version of Exodia? The only real way to counter against this would be to deal 8k damage in a turn, while putting up some sort of wall to wait it out. Again, it's not interactive. You're just waiting for a chance to win. Then the Exodia player has managed to do nothing in that duel. It will result in a boring matchup.

Lets say I faced this card, and had no way to counter it in my deck. I might lose the first one, but I'm smart enough to realize that my best bet after that would be to defend, set up, and bide my time until I can go into a killing combo. or better yet, save my solemns (That I mysteriously forgot about the previous match) until he summons this monster. you can kill/restrict it at least 100 different ways, and they would all leave your opponent open the next turn. it's not as hard as you seem to believe.

If you did not have a Solemn card in the first duel, then you did not draw into it. What exactly were you supposed to use your Solemns on when against Exodia? An Upstart Goblin? And as I pointed out, you do nothing but wait until you can OTK. The only interaction you get from that is that you attack a few times for 8k+ damage. Even if you can counter it, it still isn't going to be an exciting experience. Maybe the first few times you "beat Exodia," but then it gets stale. Plus, the draw engine also gives the Exodia player access to the occasional protection effect such as a Fader, Scarecrow, or any other Battle Phase ending card much more easily than a normal Deck. Even if it hurts how fast you can draw into Exodia, stopping the Battle Phase leaves the opponent's monsters in Attack Position since they just tried to go for game. And then you still lose.

Against the current Exodia, that Is not an option, the only option against the current one is to hope your opponent doesn't draw their win. On the other hand, after the initial match against this one, r even during it, you know what you need to stop/ get past, and can dedicate all your resources to beating that one card. this means that you have one thing to focus on, and one thing only. and you can immediately do whatever you want after that threat is gone, or even before it appears if you get your cards set up first. this card could be cut down by saving your divine wrath, or even saving a solemn for it. it's not that hard. and even without those, if you have a decent defense set up, your opponent would not be able to otk you unless he magically drew into dark hole AND heavy storm on the same turn he had all 5 pieces in his hand.

And please keep in mind that this card is only meant to be evaluated against the current Exodia, and I do believe that this would be the better choice if only one of them was allowed to exist. Exodia's very concept is to be used for an instawin, anything less broken would not be Exodia, but a flooded down imitation like Tradetoad is to Substitoad.

The luck, and interactions required to win with this card means that he is less useable than Exodia for auto win, and is therefore a better card for the game than exodia is.

So, you're saying that this card should only be compared to the Exodia we have right now and we should just not take how it would be able to work into account? Of course this is better design than the existing Exodia, but it still works a lot like Exodia in that you run an enormous draw engine to get it, and the penalty for not being able to stop one card results in an instant loss. If you can't counter it, then it doesn't matter which version of Exodia you got hit with. You still can't stop it, and you still lose just as badly.

[darkhorus]

I'm saying that if an Exodia replacement were to happen, it needs to either not be so automatic in its method of victory and/or...

 

what would be the point of it being Exodia then? Exodia is supposed to be an almighty creature. It's only natural that card effects and the such wouldn't affect it, and that its strength is unrivaled by that of any other monster.

 

If I were to tone down its effect any more, then it wouldn't be Exodia anymore.

 

We all agree with your point, though, that an exodia deck wouldn't make for a very fun duel.

 

So, you're saying that this card should only be compared to the Exodia we have right now and we should just not take how it would be able to work into account?

 

Well, actually, that's the only reason I made this card; as a hypothetical replacement for the current/real Exodia

I know it's OP, but it's Exodia after all.

[Neochu-H]

this card isn't soooo op, i mean there are a few ways to destroy this card, like solemn warning i think or solemn judgment

and i think threatening roar can stop it.

and prohibition

plus that one earthbound immortal

and monsters that can't be destroyed by battle.

[darkhorus]

'This card is unaffected by card effects.'

 

I'm fairly positive this card's attack cannot be stopped by Threatening Roar.

 

On the other hand, Threatening Roar's text says 'Your opponent cannot declare an attack this turn.'

 

So, Threatening Roar does not affect your opponent's monsters, but it affects your opponent themselves, in that your opponent cannot select a monster to attack with that turn. So it affects the actual player, instead of the monsters.

 

Now, on the other hand, Swords of Revealing Light for example, that one specifically states in its card text that it affects the monsters, and not the player; 'Flip all monsters your opponent controls face-up. This card remains on the field for 3 of your opponent's turns. While this card is face-up on the field, monsters your opponent controls cannot declare an attack.'

 

So I guess, Swords of Revealing Light will not stop this card's attack, while Threatening Roar will.

[vla1ne]

So to summarize everything, (at least from my point of view)

 

1.) This is a less broken replacement to a vey broken card, and given the choice, this would be the preferred card to exist.

 

2.) While this card IS broken as all hell, it's only one shot unless you have the skills/ luck/ cheating ability of Yugi.

 

3.) The game of Yu-Gi-Oh needs serious re-tweaking anyways.

 

4.) Single player games are boring

 

5.) This card would cause some very interesting, and funny new scenarios if it were to exist.

 

6.)  If you play this card, you lose all hand advantage.

 

7.) Another line that this card needs is: "When this card is summoned, send all cards you control to the graveyard"

 

8.) Win condition cards are broken as all hell

 

9.) Players can't prepare for everything

 

and finally 10 ) broken cards exist in Yu-Gi-Oh, and replacing them with less-broken-but-still-broken-as-hell-versions in the fake card thread is looked down upon.

 

EDIT: bonus number 11) I just looked at the card that came before this one, and Semi-Exodia was far worse than either this card, or the original Exodia could ever be LoL

[darkhorus]

I just looked at the card that came before this one, and Semi-Exodia was far worse than either this card, or the original Exodia could ever be LoL

 

OH YES !!

 

The game of Yu-Gi-Oh needs serious re-tweaking anyways.

 

I can't say I totally disagree with this. However, Konami made/make the game so they decide how to make it, what it will look like, how powerful cards can be, what can be considered balanced and not OP, and what would work in their game.

 

Speaking of a card being OP; what I consider OP is any effect that is more powerful than that of the anime Egyptian God Cards, nothing more nothing less.

 

While this card IS broken as all hell, it's only one shot unless you have the skills/ luck/ cheating ability of Yugi.

 

Oh so true LOL

 

Players can't prepare for everything

 

That's right.

 

Another line that this card needs is: "When this card is summoned, send all cards you control to the graveyard"

 

Meh, this would mean the controller of this card would literally not have a single chance left to win if he were to blow it with this card. I don't like that.

 

btw, you should probably make that: "When this card is Special Summoned (successfully?), send all other cards you control to the Graveyard"

[vla1ne]

Meh, this would mean the controller of this card would literally not have a single chance left to win if he were to blow it with this card. I don't like that.

 

btw, you should probably make that: "When this card is Special Summoned (successfully?), send all other cards you control to the Graveyard"

If a card that's as broken as this is allowed Backrow support, it really would be invincible, at the very least, sending all spell and trap cards you control to the grave would make this card feasibly less broken, due to having nothing to prevent your opponent from defending themselves. it's enough of a win condition as is, Backrow support is pretty much overkill offense at that point.

 

as a monster with attack points that equal a win condition, and immunity to all card effects, it's already broken enough, giving him Backrow support after he hits field is not really fair in terms of allowing for  interactive defense.

Not really as mandatory, but it would stop him from hitting field and then you using torrential to swing for game if he had an effect that prevented you from at least activating other cards the turn he's summoned.

[darkhorus]

If a card that's as broken as this is allowed Backrow support, it really would be invincible, at the very least, sending all spell and trap cards you control to the grave would make this card feasibly less broken, due to having nothing to prevent your opponent from defending themselves. it's enough of a win condition as is, Backrow support is pretty much overkill offense at that point.

 

as a monster with attack points that equal a win condition, and immunity to all card effects, it's already broken enough, giving him Backrow support after he hits field is not really fair in terms of allowing for  interactive defense.

Not really as mandatory, but it would stop him from hitting field and then you using torrential to swing for game if he had an effect that prevented you from at least activating other cards the turn he's summoned.

 

Yeah, I can see that working. I get your point, and I agree.

 

The fact is, if I summon this card in an attempt to OTK my opponent, and fail, then this card goes to the Grave during the End Phase, so it would be nice after that happens to still have something to defend myself with when my opponent strikes back during their turn.

 

On the other hand, if this card is played with an Exodia deck, I'm afraid that after this card is gone, there isn't much you would still be able to draw or do to win.

[vla1ne]

Yeah, I can see that working. I get your point, and I agree.

 

The fact is, if I summon this card in an attempt to OTK my opponent, and fail, then this card goes to the Grave during the End Phase, so it would be nice after that happens to still have something to defend myself with when my opponent strikes back during their turn.

 

On the other hand, if this card is played with an Exodia deck, I'm afraid that after this card is gone, there isn't much you would still be able to draw or do to win.

I get your point, but that's what's meant to happen in decks like Exodia, if you screw up, you get punished for it. Big time. The effect addition meant to say was:

 

"During the turn you summon this card you cannot summon other monsters, or activate spell and trap card effects"

 

Any deck that runs a win condition needs to be high risk. high cost, higher reward, otherwise it becomes the easiest deck in the game to abuse. that's why people hate the current Exodia decks, They're built in such a way, that the risk is practically reduced to nonexistent, and therefore they become low-medium risk decks, with a reward that isn't deserved in the least due to solitaire plays.

 

With your Exodia design, rushing into your 5 Exodia pieces would mean that you give up all hand advantage, you also run the risk of not having them at a time you can use them (especially once your opponent knows you run it) and holding it in your hand becomes a liability, not an asset. the restriction on your Backrow would make using this card into the ultimate mind game:

 

You have one shot to get it right, but if your opponent sees it coming and avoids the hit somehow, you're left practically wide open for at least 3 turns while you re-gather your hand and use up whatever field resources you have left to try to recuperate yourself after such a tremendous play.

 

In most matches 3 turns of weakness is enough to kill you, so screwing up your own move would end almost all hope of victory, since your opponent would be better off saving their heaviest hitting cards until they know they can get a clean hit against this deck.

[darkhorus]

You're absolutely right :)

[vla1ne]

Thank you.

[darkhorus]

It would be cool if Konami re-made Exodia into an actualy playable Monster Card, instead of its cheap unstoppable auto-win concept. If they did this, however, they couldn't make him that powerful.

 

I've been thinking of ways to do this, but it's very difficult to make a non-cheap Exodia, without giving up too much of its almightiness.

[AdamX]

You know what'd be cool? A spell card of some sort that lets you remove the pieces of Exodia from your deck (And some other negative effect) To summon an Exodia monster like Dark Horus was talking about. 

[darkhorus]

You know what'd be cool? A spell card of some sort that lets you remove the pieces of Exodia from your deck (And some other negative effect) To summon an Exodia monster like Dark Horus was talking about. 

 

Such would be a hell of a lot broken than the one I made! LOL

[vla1ne]

there was an attempt to make a non broken exodia. it's name is exodia necrosis and nobody likes it lol

[darkhorus]

Well a non-broken/non-cheap Exodia could never exist. If you were to strip Exodia of too much of its power or unstoppability, then it wouldn't be Exodia anymore. It would be next to impossible to make a balanced Exodia without taking too much of its superiority away LOL

 

 

Do you mean Exodia Necross?

[vla1ne]

yeah. it's pretty much the worst of all the exodia copies because of how easy it is to kill