How did the meta sink so low?

[NoshpalStefan]

Okay, so, in short, I used to be and am still (at least information-wise) somewhat of a veteran Yugioh player, and by veteran I mean I have been playing since 2005 until I had a sudden stop back this June. However, I am still highly into Yugioh and DN, testing new decks and not what. Thus, leading to my question:

 

How did the meta fall so much into the depths of the discomforting abyss?

 

Right now, it just all seems like a pointless cycle - either you have what's amazingly good (now it's Dragon Rulers and Spellbooks, before it was Dino-Rabbit and Wind-Up, before Synchrocentric, and so on and so forth) or you have a mediocre deck that can (surprise, surprise!) only competitively can go against other mediocre decks. Yes, there will always be the argument that you can side against them but that's not an entirely good argument - Yugioh has become a kid's game. Any kid can pay a thousand bucks and make the best deck and sideboard. But, I remember that this game was once about skill, about strategy, about a chess-like maneuver to take the game. That was actually the sole reason that I preferred Yugioh over MtG; they were both strategy games at the time and Yugioh had some sort of allure that MtG didn't. However, I am now seriously considering switching to MtG simply because there is an actual stretch of the mind there.

 

What do you guys think? Do you think Yugioh can ever break its childish shackles and become what it once was: a decently fun strategy game rather than a money-grabbing corporate sellout? Or, do you think that as long as there are kids willing to buy it will remain a child's game? Or, perhaps, you are one of the few that thinks that the game is perfect right now as it is, in which case, besides me chuckling a bit at the thought, I would love to hear the arguments behind that.

[Dementuo]

Actually the game has only been in a really sh*t format for the past 2-3 months. Ever since Rabbit went to 2 the formats had been pretty acceptable in terms of what could be run. There were a lot of different decks that aren't considered "Competitive" at the moment that were very good and very viable pre-Tachyon.The only reason the game got so bad is because of E Dragons and Judgment. Once the format changes, we'll go back to a format where many other decks can be competitively viable without having to worry about something like E Dragons or Spellbooks popping up everywhere and stomping all over them.

[Lonk]

I personally believe that the meta started to go into utter fecal matter with the advent of ORCS.  PHSW did bring Rabbit Dino, but that format was so balanced that pretty much any rogue and undermeta Deck can win if the player was skilled enough to use those Decks.  With ORCS came Inzektors, which always had the need to pop the field, and Wind-Up hand loop.  After that, Konami thought that it was a wonderful idea to keep pumping out broken deck concepts like free candy until it reached its zenith with LTGY, where Konami realized that nobody liked broken deck concepts.

[The Warden]

Actually, I would conceive it safe to say that it turned to crap at the advent of the Machina SD. Fortress was made absurdly strong, and the cards that came after him acted on the whim of power creep.

 

But, to be frank, you can tie power creep as far back as when BLS-EotB and CED-EotE came about. Or when JD and DAD battled for supremacy. However, I like to think it all truly began with Machina Fortress. He became the first stepping stone of a now irreversible power creep, since any bosses and new cards made from Sets/SDs now have to trump the prior. Which became apparant with the likes of Hyperion/Earth and Grapha/Snoww/Gates.

 

Now, we have the Atlanteans running about being stupid with the Mermails.

 

To sum it up, our problems really began when they made Fortress OP for that tine, and then felt the need to top it. They succeeded.

[Legend Zero]

Honestly its just Spellbooks this format, imo. Sure Rulers are not the best designed cards, but the mirror match is actually quite fun and thought provoking. If you just take Prophecy out then I'd feel a lot better about the format I'm not currently playing. :/

[Steve The Bug]

You're exaggerating a ton.  Back when Synchrocentric was a thing, so was Rabbit, and so were Agents.  Tier 2 (TGs, Darkworld, Heroes, and more) could easily still compete just not quite as well.

[Zazubat]

Honestly its just Spellbooks this format, imo. Sure Rulers are not the best designed cards, but the mirror match is actually quite fun and thought provoking. If you just take Prophecy out then I'd feel a lot better about the format I'm not currently playing. :/

It sure is fun to mirror match isn't it?! Let's just not let anything else able to play other than around 3 Decks, that makes for a good competetive game!

 

Seriously though, I am glad that the banlist is coming soon so we can get some more fun Decks up there. Hopefully though, Fire Fists won't take over, as I kind of expect them to do.

[Legend Zero]

It sure is fun to mirror match isn't it?! Let's just not let anything else able to play other than around 3 Decks, that makes for a good competetive game!
 
Seriously though, I am glad that the banlist is coming soon so we can get some more fun Decks up there. Hopefully though, Fire Fists won't take over, as I kind of expect them to do.

.....what is wrong with mirror matches?

3-5 is actually a decent and reasonable number to strive for with viable top tier decks. After that having 2-5 viable Tier 2 decks would be what I would strive for. Nothing stupid and fairytale-ish as having 10+ meta decks like I think some of you believe is possible.

Though its not just the number, but what those decks are that is equally important.

[Eury]

I honestly don't mind Rulers and the only thing I really have a problem with this format is Prophecy. Should Rulers get hit? Of course. But I wouldn't really care either way. 

 

Prophecy is pretty much searching through your deck, grabbing what you need to win, and that is it. At least Rulers you have to think about what you're banishing/summoning/etc. 

[Zazubat]

.....what is wrong with mirror matches?

3-5 is actually a decent and reasonable number to strive for with viable top tier decks. After that having 2-5 viable Tier 2 decks would be what I would strive for. Nothing stupid and fairytale-ish as having 10+ meta decks like I think some of you believe is possible.

Though its not just the number, but what those decks are that is equally important.

Nothing, but it shouldn't be what the freaking game consists of though, if I wanted to play the same cards againts someone, I would probably play Poker or something.

 

Yeah, it isn't possible to have that many top Decks, since most Decks can't hold up these days, but there's not really a whole lot of Decks that can stand up againts the top Decks, which is the main problem. I don't mind having very good Decks, as long as they arn't unbeatable 9/10.

[Legend Zero]

I'm not advocating that the format should be Rulers and Evilswarm only. Just that it would be better than having Prophecy at all, and that Rulers are the most fun one can have in the meta.

[Therrion]

Fire Fists September 2013

 

On topic: I've never had trouble with a Prophecy player, to be square. I've been a Fire Fist player this entire format and have lost 0 matches on my DN using them, and only lost a few rounds here and there before the sidedeck, as it is easy to expect their side deck and the amount of pluses 3 Axis brings is redonk. I dislike that Dragon Rulers, as a deck, exists, but I love the amount of tech/power they brought to other decks. For example, Ice Barrier decks can use Tidal to set up MUCH faster then ever before for Gantala abuse, and Dragunity became a thing yet again due to Tempest. I like them in that regard, but I think anything that slams L&DD is just retarded, as the card is a +3 usually.

[Zazubat]

I'm not advocating that the format should be Rulers and Evilswarm only. Just that it would be better than having Prophecy at all

That's what it kind of sounded like when you were fine with it simply being mirror matches in the meta

 

And that Rulers are the most fun one can have in the meta.

That is highly subjective, I have not had any fun playing Dragon Rulers for the little time I actually did.

[Legend Zero]

That's what it kind of sounded like when you were fine with it simply being mirror matches in the meta
 
That is highly subjective, I have not had any fun playing Dragon Rulers for the little time I actually did.

Being 'fine with' and 'advocating for' are two very separate things.

I'm not even going to start an argument over the second thing, not worth it. But I will change my thought from "most fun one can have in the meta" to "most fun one can have with the top 3 decks".

[Zazubat]

Being 'fine with' and 'advocating for' are two very separate things.

Okay, maybe I twisted your words a bit there, though it looked like to me that you had no problems with it. I mean, I doubt anybody wishes for the format to simply be that.

[Aix]

Fire Fists September 2013

 

On topic: I've never had trouble with a Prophecy player, to be square. I've been a Fire Fist player this entire format and have lost 0 matches on my DN using them, and only lost a few rounds here and there before the sidedeck, as it is easy to expect their side deck and the amount of pluses 3 Axis brings is redonk. I dislike that Dragon Rulers, as a deck, exists, but I love the amount of tech/power they brought to other decks. For example, Ice Barrier decks can use Tidal to set up MUCH faster then ever before for Gantala abuse, and Dragunity became a thing yet again due to Tempest. I like them in that regard, but I think anything that slams L&DD is just retarded, as the card is a +3 usually.

Rulers actually don't play LADD any more.

[Agro]

I'm just going to step in and say that

 

Well, essentially they set themselves up for this.

 

They made a shit ton of broken cards. And because their banlists were separated by so much that they ended up making MORE broken cards that outshone the already broken cards and so each banlist skipped broken cards to only hit the top ones. So basically, you have a lot of broken cards being made and not enough time or playtesting to hit all of them.

[werewolfjedi]

 "most fun one can have with the top 3 decks".

wait, you can actually have fun with top tier yugioh? when did this happen? cause coin flips into solitaire decks are so much fun.

 

kidding aside, prophecy got too strong. the tower to all they needed, a consistent +1 that punished the opponent that destroyed it. with that in play they should have made the deck a ton more control and response centric, judgement should have been a an archtyped solemn that required book banishment, not a super +12 lets play whatever the hell I want to now card.

sure, a searchable counter trap may not have been enjoyable to see for the opponent, but they would see it, like how inferinty barrier happened 90% of the time. that creates counter-play and thought. and would have made the first true control deck the game has ever really seen.

 

cause that is what we are missing in this game, a true control type deck. the responses in this game are ether too few in number to actually base your defenses on, or it's all I just lock down everything you can do. and maybe lock-down control is what the game needs, but it's just not possible with so many easy field wipes that you can buy an opening for by negating/destroying the creature stopper.

[Bull3tM0nk3y]

I've been playing for as long as you have mate, and it seems fine. Sure, Konami makes OP cards to beat the OP cards that were made last year, but it's the same game as before.

[Rawkobo]

cause that is what we are missing in this game, a true control type deck. the responses in this game are ether too few in number to actually base your defenses on, or it's all I just lock down everything you can do. and maybe lock-down control is what the game needs, but it's just not possible with so many easy field wipes that you can buy an opening for by negating/destroying the creature stopper.

 

Obviously you haven't seen true Gravekeepers players run wild, nor did you experience Naturia Bambooshoot in the last format Trunade was around. I'll even throw in Heroes, because of the fact that it essentially plays anti-meta strats that force control of the board's interactions if Dimensional Fissure or Skill Drain are present.

 

Control exists in the game, but it's hindered by not being remotely close to what WotC had in M:TG for a short duration last year, because there's plenty of ways to force pressure. I'll agree with you that boardwipes might be a bit of a problem (noting M:TG once again with things like Wrath of God/Day of Judgment/Supreme Verdict), but it's also extremely clear that Konami doesn't want to push anything that would cause a different form of frustration.

Y'know, people complaining about stall winning. Because stalling out an opponent/striking out their chances of winning, and doing it consistently and without decent opposition, is not right.

[Delibirb]

I personally am mostly annoyed at some of the archetypes which have been coming out recently. I agree with the OP, this game used to be about luck, skill, and chess-like strategy. But with some of the more recent archetypes, if you can get one of those cards in your hand first turn (Which isnt hard) then you can prepare for a full on onslaught with constant searching, discarding, drawing, special summoning all in a massive chain. That isnt luck, it isnt skill, its boring. I dont use archetypes in legitimate duels, and no matter how much I lose, I doubt I ever will, because I disagree with the lack of actual deck construction talent that goes into it.

/rant

 

To be fair, I do like some/most archetypes that arent ridiculous in their searches/special summons/etc.