[TCG] April 2014 Ban List

[Dog King]

Lets think about this for a minute.

 

1)Void Ogre Dragon = Shi'en with more beef and more generic

2)Infernity Launcher, Infernity Mirage, and Infernity General summon 2 from the grave at once (and its generally both Infernity Necromancers or 1 Necro and Archfiend for more insane +s)

3)Infernity Barrier is a Solemn Judgment  (Note, this is a problem unlike other archetypes who have them, because this is SEARCHABLE)

4) Infernity Archfiend isn't restricted to OPT, so you could keep searching 3 Barriers, and set all 3. Your opponent couldn't do anything. Even now, 1 Barrier, and 2 Infernity Break is still pretty powerful. Being able to search Launcher isn't helping its case either.

5)All they do is loop (mostly). Infernities were at one point meta, with Archfiend/Necromancer/Infernity Beetle looping out Trishula for insane advantage and OTKs.

5a) Loop: Involves Infernity Mirage, Infernity Necromancer, Infernity Archfiend, Infernity Avenger, Hundred-Eyes Dragon, and Leviar the Sea Dragon. Mirage calls out 2 Necromancers (or again 1 Archfiend and 1 Necromancer with Archfiend searching Launcher if you don't already have it, or Barrier to protect, this is the more preferable option as it generates you more plus's with searches, which is one of the points of the loop). Archfiend searches Barrier or Break, set it, Necromancer calls out Avenger tune for Hundred-Eyes. Hundred-Eyes banishes Mirage and tributes itself. Summon 2 Necromancers. Necromancer A calls out Archfiend again for another search, Necro B calls out Avenger. Overlay for Leviar, detach and summon Mirage from banished pile, Mirage tributes again into another hundred-eyes, rinse repeat. If you have 2 Daemons in the grave, you can loop Number 101 to get rid of your opponents monsters as well. When all is said and done, you have 3 Barriers set, 2 or 3 Leviars on the field, and 1 Void Ogre Dragon, and maybe even an Infernity Doom Dragon, all you need is an additional 200 points to otk, which the last spot is almost always filled anyway. THIS IS THE MAIN LOOP. In /no/ way, can you tell me this is fair in any way. Not only do you get to negate an opponents magic/trap for free, but you have 3 barriers set. Your opponent just cannot overcome this. There are other loops, but they don't generate as much advantage from what I've seen. You can also technically use the Trishula loop and just use Mist Wurm instead. Either way leads to otk.

6) ACCESS TO BEELZE THE DIABOLIC DRAGON. This is a reallllly big one, with all your backrow protecting it, all the normal counters to it are no longer viable except Warning. 101 is going to get his effect negated, your opponent can't kill it in battle or by effect, and a D-Prison/Compuls/Fiendish is most likely being met with a Barrier Seven Tools, or Dark Bribe varying on the build. And possibly Wiretap too, depending on how Konami decides to handle it.

7) Infernity General. Yes this is a level 7 monster, so if you open with it, you're probably screwed unless you also open with Grepher or Launcher (or for those weird builds Infernity Inferno), but it is a GRAVE TRAPLIKE EFFECT, banishing it lets you summon 2 (level 3 or lower) Infernity monsters from your grave. Their effects are negated, but that doesn't really matter, since thats the only restriction. It doesn't stop Synchroes or Xyzs. So, varying on field, its a free Void Ogre or Beelze and in the worst case scenario, a free Leviar, or some other rank 3. IN ADDITION, if you run Infernity Beetle, you can summon one of him instead, and tribute him as cost to summon 2 more from deck for a rank 2, or instant Beelze/Void Ogre

:cool: Infernity Avenger. A minor point, but it is a level toolbox. Not only is its base level the arguably best level available for a tuner, but its also one of the best attributes (Dark, Earth follows up real close as a second). In addition, its a level toolbox. Able to alter its level anywhere from 2--->8, EXCEPT 5, since a level 5 Infernity doesn't exist to my knowledge.

9) With the arrival of Giganticastle and Leo, Infernity Destroyer becomes a fun card. This point is NOT part of arguement, but I felt I should mention it anyway. Since Avenger + Necro + Destroyer = Leo, a card with 3200 attack that can't be targeted outside of your mp2, and Destroyer + altered level Avenger = 3100 beater

10) Infernity Guardian. This card is a pain in the ass, its a mini-beelze in the sense it can't be destroyed period.

 

I think I'll stop there, since I can easily keep going.

Infernities are a fun deck to use (as much as I hate to admit it they are my my 2nd favorite 5ds archetypes, just behind the Nordics), but they play in a degenerate style revolving around loops and locking your opponents options with Barrier, Break, and Ogre.

 

This post is to be of no offense to you, so I hope you don't take it as such. Its great that you use Infernities, but you shouldn't complain when a deck that the majority of players have been raiing valid point after point of its degeneracy about for ages gets hit. This is Yu-Gi-Oh. Random s*** happens alll the time. People don't agree with some banlists, but agree with others. Its impossible to make everybody happy, and with that said, you shouldn't be taking it as a personal attack just because Konami hits your deck. The following is one of the most IMPORTANT aspects of card games. ADAPTATION. Adapting is part of the game. Embrace it and you'll be able to realize more comboes that you never thought of before, and your deck will most likely thank you for it.

 

/rant

 

this is such a bad post 

 

like srsly

[Dog King]

like you just explained an outdated deck from like 4 years ago 

and you even mentioned stuff like general and guardian like wat

[Slinky]

like you just explained an outdated deck from like 4 years ago 

and you even mentioned stuff like general and guardian like wat

 

Like I said, I haven't played/played against Infernities in a long time, but I have been paying attention to the archetype in general, looping together stuff in my mind. Anyways, the point of the post, was to broaden the members of the archetype as much as possible, regardless of how legitimate they are in the deck or not (which if you look at my post history, you'll see I like doing that. (IE: Delving into unused members of an archtype and trying to find legit ways to use them to full effect). I'm only generally looking at the end result and seeing how they manage to match up with the term "Degeneracy". Its only my view. Take it as you wish. Im in no way portraying it as fact

[Dog King]

Like I said, I haven't played/played against Infernities in a long time, but I have been paying attention to the archetype in general, looping together stuff in my mind. Anyways, the point of the post, was to broaden the members of the archetype as much as possible, regardless of how legitimate they are in the deck or not (which if you look at my post history, you'll see I like doing that. (IE: Delving into unused members of an archtype and trying to find legit ways to use them to full effect). I'm only generally looking at the end result and seeing how they manage to match up with the term "Degeneracy". Its only my view. Take it as you wish. Im in no way portraying it as fact

 

 

 

yes i understand but you explained the whole deck in not the way its used the best atm

 

its like me trying to tell someone back in blackwing format 

how vayu turbo is such a powerful deck and why cards in the deck needed to bit hit

 

because atm its xyz infernities are really the only version of the deck played and probably the only reason barrier needed to be hit

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Just a year ago people were using Guardian in the top builds. It was more of a stun deck, but obviously it just slowed the opponent down until it could loop.

[WeebYGO]

Lets think about this for a minute.

 

1)Void Ogre Dragon = Shi'en with more beef and more generic

2)Infernity Launcher, Infernity Mirage, and Infernity General summon 2 from the grave at once (and its generally both Infernity Necromancers or 1 Necro and Archfiend for more insane +s)

3)Infernity Barrier is a Solemn Judgment  (Note, this is a problem unlike other archetypes who have them, because this is SEARCHABLE)

4) Infernity Archfiend isn't restricted to OPT, so you could keep searching 3 Barriers, and set all 3. Your opponent couldn't do anything. Even now, 1 Barrier, and 2 Infernity Break is still pretty powerful. Being able to search Launcher isn't helping its case either.

5)All they do is loop (mostly). Infernities were at one point meta, with Archfiend/Necromancer/Infernity Beetle looping out Trishula for insane advantage and OTKs.

5a) Loop: Involves Infernity Mirage, Infernity Necromancer, Infernity Archfiend, Infernity Avenger, Hundred-Eyes Dragon, and Leviar the Sea Dragon. Mirage calls out 2 Necromancers (or again 1 Archfiend and 1 Necromancer with Archfiend searching Launcher if you don't already have it, or Barrier to protect, this is the more preferable option as it generates you more plus's with searches, which is one of the points of the loop). Archfiend searches Barrier or Break, set it, Necromancer calls out Avenger tune for Hundred-Eyes. Hundred-Eyes banishes Mirage and tributes itself. Summon 2 Necromancers. Necromancer A calls out Archfiend again for another search, Necro B calls out Avenger. Overlay for Leviar, detach and summon Mirage from banished pile, Mirage tributes again into another hundred-eyes, rinse repeat. If you have 2 Daemons in the grave, you can loop Number 101 to get rid of your opponents monsters as well. When all is said and done, you have 3 Barriers set, 2 or 3 Leviars on the field, and 1 Void Ogre Dragon, and maybe even an Infernity Doom Dragon, all you need is an additional 200 points to otk, which the last spot is almost always filled anyway. THIS IS THE MAIN LOOP. In /no/ way, can you tell me this is fair in any way. Not only do you get to negate an opponents magic/trap for free, but you have 3 barriers set. Your opponent just cannot overcome this. There are other loops, but they don't generate as much advantage from what I've seen. You can also technically use the Trishula loop and just use Mist Wurm instead. Either way leads to otk.

6) ACCESS TO BEELZE THE DIABOLIC DRAGON. This is a reallllly big one, with all your backrow protecting it, all the normal counters to it are no longer viable except Warning. 101 is going to get his effect negated, your opponent can't kill it in battle or by effect, and a D-Prison/Compuls/Fiendish is most likely being met with a Barrier Seven Tools, or Dark Bribe varying on the build. And possibly Wiretap too, depending on how Konami decides to handle it.

7) Infernity General. Yes this is a level 7 monster, so if you open with it, you're probably screwed unless you also open with Grepher or Launcher (or for those weird builds Infernity Inferno), but it is a GRAVE TRAPLIKE EFFECT, banishing it lets you summon 2 (level 3 or lower) Infernity monsters from your grave. Their effects are negated, but that doesn't really matter, since thats the only restriction. It doesn't stop Synchroes or Xyzs. So, varying on field, its a free Void Ogre or Beelze and in the worst case scenario, a free Leviar, or some other rank 3. IN ADDITION, if you run Infernity Beetle, you can summon one of him instead, and tribute him as cost to summon 2 more from deck for a rank 2, or instant Beelze/Void Ogre

:cool: Infernity Avenger. A minor point, but it is a level toolbox. Not only is its base level the arguably best level available for a tuner, but its also one of the best attributes (Dark, Earth follows up real close as a second). In addition, its a level toolbox. Able to alter its level anywhere from 2--->8, EXCEPT 5, since a level 5 Infernity doesn't exist to my knowledge.

9) With the arrival of Giganticastle and Leo, Infernity Destroyer becomes a fun card. This point is NOT part of arguement, but I felt I should mention it anyway. Since Avenger + Necro + Destroyer = Leo, a card with 3200 attack that can't be targeted outside of your mp2, and Destroyer + altered level Avenger = 3100 beater

10) Infernity Guardian. This card is a pain in the ass, its a mini-beelze in the sense it can't be destroyed period.

 

I think I'll stop there, since I can easily keep going.

Infernities are a fun deck to use (as much as I hate to admit it they are my my 2nd favorite 5ds archetypes, just behind the Nordics), but they play in a degenerate style revolving around loops and locking your opponents options with Barrier, Break, and Ogre.

 

This post is to be of no offense to you, so I hope you don't take it as such. Its great that you use Infernities, but you shouldn't complain when a deck that the majority of players have been raiing valid point after point of its degeneracy about for ages gets hit. This is Yu-Gi-Oh. Random s*** happens alll the time. People don't agree with some banlists, but agree with others. Its impossible to make everybody happy, and with that said, you shouldn't be taking it as a personal attack just because Konami hits your deck. The following is one of the most IMPORTANT aspects of card games. ADAPTATION. Adapting is part of the game. Embrace it and you'll be able to realize more comboes that you never thought of before, and your deck will most likely thank you for it.

 

/rant

 

EDIT: While I was typing this little "essay", the Laval Chain loop was brought up. Since I haven't played against Infernities in a while, I completely forgot about it. The Chain loop is just as viable as the one I had mentioned here as both generate an equal amount of advantage. The Chain loop just further sets up your grave for later plays if the opponent actually legitly manages to bypass all your negations (which they shouldn't)

Alright, lets me give me my personal experience as somebody who mains infernity for over a year now.

1. Yes, he is stronger compared to Shi En. He isn't a Infernity card though, he can be played in decks like Dark World too.
I agree that this card is really strong though, however Infernity Doom Dragon was more of a problem, since he allowed cards like Infernity Barrier to be played. Void Ogre Dragon will see more playing in this format i think. Imo his Attack and Def combined with its effect is quite... overpowered, i agree

2.Infernity General is bad because of 2 tributes. Don't see a reason to run him to be honest.
Infernity Launcher is OP, but it is limited... at the moment the card feels justified.
Infernity Mirage is mainly played in Synchro Infernity (i run them).
He is quite situational, he can really suck in your first hand, because he is a 0/0. He can combo well with archfiend, maybe a little bit too good.

3.Infernity Barrier.. You need to control a face-up attack position Infernity. There are only a couple of cards who can do this without being instagibbed, like Archfiend and Doom Dragon. It might be a bit too strong because its situational, maybe an errata change making it once per turn would be better, or making archfiend unable to search it would be more fitting. Limiting.. isn't the right way of nerfing Infernity imo.

4. Infernity Archfiend is indeed the true problem in Infernity. If anything, this card should be made semi-limited yes. Limiting it would make XYZfernity unplayable, that would be a ridiculous move. This card should have an errata change of once per turn, or be semi-limited. 3 of them are way too overpowered, because of the past were you could get 3 barriers. Now you got the new problem with being able to get 3 infernity breaks, or maybe even new cards?

5.

I do agree they are too much of a loop deck at times. I rarely loop myself though.
There is a reason why Trishula is banned, i haven't played in this format so i can't really judge on this situation.
This loop is quite situational, i have never heard of this loop before and i have never been able to make it either. I have had equal loops, getting my opponent from 8 to 0 in my first turn, but those were situations with empty opponents fields. If anything, running 1 maxx C or Veiler could shut down entire infernity.

6. Wait a second, is this card even released?
This card is broken, and i can't believe this card would ever be released.
This card will be released before release, i refuse that this card can exist.
This is Stardust Dragon overkill mode, i just don't see this card happening....

7.Infernity General is just not an option in Infernity.... It can get stuck in hand, and thus will not be seen in play.
Too high risk, too low reward. Would only work if you get foolish burial early, or another way to discard him...
You could work around it, but i just can't see a reason to run it.

8. Infernity Avenger
Hmm yeah quite the toolbox, he is the reason why level 8 synchros are easy (SS Archfiend somehow, get necro, get avenger with necro, insta doom dragon/void ogre)
He is the hearth and soul of the synchro infernity deck. He is like Junk Synchron is to normal tuners.
Adjusting to others level can be good, or end up bad.
With the lack of good lvl 7 synchros, him becoming level 4 could end up bad.

9. What Leo? Could you give me a link? Never heard of that leo card. Infernity Destroyer can give you dead draws too easily, so don't see this as a viable combo to be honest.

10. Infernity Guardian is beyond ridiculous, but with the card pool that exists nowaday its effect can backfire with ease.
He is quite ridiculous though, i gotta agree with that.

Mweh, Infernity might be quite degenerate style of play... but almost all decks that are being played nowdays are degenerate... so its not really just Infernity being a problem.
I don't take it as offense (lots of people on here are quite easily offended when they aren't right... like seriously).
I can see your point, i think Archfiend and barrier semi-limited would be a reasonable hit to Infernity.
What they have done however, is just nerf Infernity way too hard.

I have adapted a lot in the past, i have played since structure deck... Pegasus? If not earlier...
Have played almost all the yu gi oh videogames,these require you to adapt a lot.
I have played with friends (all stopped playing because of me lel) and had to teach them all how to play their decks.
I have played pretty much all decks out there before the XYZ age.
I adapt myself a lot.
After all those years of playing, i finally found a deck which was fun to play, Infernity, because it was diverse, every duel was different.
Sometimes you had to deal with having 5 monsters in 1 had, sometimes you could summon 3 synchro monsters in 1 turn and feel like a god.
I just loved playing Infernity, and it got me back into the game.
Watching Infernity just die out is a sad deck. (Lets be honest, it won't get new support anyway... and new OTK decks will just keep coming and coming)



 

 

[Dog King]

lol beelze is confirmed for gold series or some other pack for tcg

its good but not too powerful or anything

[WeebYGO]

lol beelze is confirmed for gold series or some other pack for tcg

its good but not too powerful or anything

Don't think they release him with the effect on wiki, thats just broken.. basically immortal

[Sunn O)))]

Don't think they release him with the effect on wiki, thats just broken.. basically immortal

Except that's it's effect.

[Blake]

Don't think they release him with the effect on wiki, thats just broken.. basically immortal

First off, it was already released with that in the OCG/Confirmed in the TCG
 
Secondly, it's hardly broken. It's just decent.
 
 

It's really nothing more than a glorified Leadyoke when you think about it.
 
I mean, it takes a more creative method to destroy it, but it's not hard to kill and basically every deck has an answer to it.
 
Starliege Paladynamo, Cardinal, Tiaramisu, Lightning Chidori, Constellar Pleiades, Evilswarm Bahamut/Ophion for pre-emptive stopping, SHArk, Big Eye, Vulcan, Psyhemuth, LS Michael, Dark End Dragon, Mist Wurm, Raiza and Caius, Gorgonic Guardian, Alsei and Oreia, Tachyon AND Neo Tachyon, Ptolemy, Abyssgaios and Tiger King negate it, and random s*** like Scrap Twin or Thor.
 
And this isn't even considering other answers in conjuncture with the negation (fiendish, breakthrough, whatever) and answer cards (compulsory, d-pris if you paly it) you draw into.

[WeebYGO]

 

Except that's it's effect.

 

Cannot be destroyed by battle or by card effects.

So, this will be its actual effect?

[Sunn O)))]

Cannot be destroyed by battle or by card effects.

So, this will be its actual effect?

Nope, this will

Cannot be destroyed by battle or by card effects. When you take damage from an attack involving this card, or from an opponent's card effect: This card gains ATK equal to the damage you took.

[WeebYGO]

 

Nope, this will

Cannot be destroyed by battle or by card effects. When you take damage from an attack involving this card, or from an opponent's card effect: This card gains ATK equal to the damage you took.

 

Wat
That card is just a bad idea in general

Immortal to pretty much everything, if its atk is too low it buffs itself, no drawbacks...
What are they smoking

[Blake]

Wat
That card is just a bad idea in general
Immortal to pretty much everything, if its atk is too low it buffs itself, no drawbacks...
What are they smoking

It's really nothing more than a glorified Leadyoke when you think about it.

I mean, it takes a more creative method to destroy it, but it's not hard to kill and basically every deck has an answer to it.

Starliege Paladynamo, Cardinal, Tiaramisu, Lightning Chidori, Constellar Pleiades, Evilswarm Bahamut/Ophion for pre-emptive stopping, SHArk, Big Eye, Vulcan, Psyhemuth, LS Michael, Dark End Dragon, Mist Wurm, Raiza and Caius, Gorgonic Guardian, Alsei and Oreia, Tachyon AND Neo Tachyon, Ptolemy, Abyssgaios and Tiger King negate it, and random s*** like Scrap Twin or Thor.

And this isn't even considering other answers in conjuncture with the negation (fiendish, breakthrough, whatever) and answer cards (compulsory, d-pris if you paly it) you draw into.

"Immune to pretty much everything"

Right. Keep telling yourself that. Instead of reading and thinking at all.

[Sunn O)))]

Wat
That card is just a bad idea in general

Immortal to pretty much everything, if its atk is too low it buffs itself, no drawbacks...
What are they smoking

Let's see, some generic cards that can get rid of Beelze, Compulsory Evacuation Device, 101, and PWWB, if you're into that. That, plus whatever other options your decks has at its disposal.

[WeebYGO]

 

Let's see, some generic cards that can get rid of Beelze, Compulsory Evacuation Device, 101, and PWWB, if you're into that. That, plus whatever other options your decks has at its disposal.

 

Isn't Compulsory limited?
Fools at Konami, this might end up making Synchro Infernity meta, another level 8 dragon to choose from.

Seeker, didn't see your post, my bad.
Hmm, out of those cards, what one are none deck specific?

[Sunn O)))]

Isn't Compulsory limited?
Fools at Konami, this might end up making Synchro Infernity meta, another level 8 dragon to choose from.

Seeker, didn't see your post, my bad.
Hmm, out of those cards, what one are none deck specific?

SHArk, Big Eye, Vulcan, Psyhemuth, Mist Wurm, Raiza, Caius

[Blake]

The issue with Synchro Infernity is that it's an inconsistent pile of shit, not that it lacks ED options.

Starliege Paladynamo is LIGHT, but not deck specific
Lightning Chidori is WIND
Constellar Pleiades is LIGHT, but almost every good R5 deck uses LIGHT.
101 is generic
Big Eye is generic
Vulcan is generic
Psyhemuth is generic
LS Michael requires LIGHT non-tuners
Dark End Dragon requires DARK non-tuners
Mist Wurm generic 3-mat Level 9
Raiza and Caius are Monarchs, though Caius can be teched places
Gorgonic Guardian rock specific
Alsei is any R8 deck plus Felgrand negates it for R8
Tachyon AND Neo Tachyon are generic, though the latter requires a RUM
Ptolemy is generic

Then Compulsory, negation traps, PWWB, etc.

It's not that hard to deal with it and you don't have to compromise your deck in any way to do so.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

 

SHArk, Big Eye, Vulcan, Psyhemuth, Mist Wurm, Raiza, Caius

 

To be fair, only one of those cards is seen in a majority of decks. Most can't afford to use Mist Wurm, Raiza, or Caius.

[Blake]

To be fair, only one of those cards is seen in a majority of decks. Most can't afford to use Mist Wurm, Raiza, or Caius.

Rank 8: Felgrand and Alsei
Rank 7: Big Eye
Rank 6: Ptolemy
Rank 5: Crystal Zero Lancer, whom I forgot, but does count cause Freezadon
Rank 4: 101

R3 and lower aren't viable as deck types alone, and more as support for High Ranks, so basically any deck can answer Beelze with the ED. Hell, with some of the best cards for their rank at that.
EDIT: And for Synchros, Level 6 has 2 answers and Level 7 has an answer/pre-emptive answer.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Rank 8: Felgrand and Alsei
Rank 7: Big Eye
Rank 6: Ptolemy
Rank 5: Crystal Zero Lancer, whom I forgot, but does count cause Freezadon
Rank 4: 101

R3 and lower aren't viable as deck types alone, and more as support for High Ranks, so basically any deck can answer Beelze with the ED. Hell, with some of the best cards for their rank at that.
EDIT: And for Synchros, Level 6 has 2 answers and Level 7 has an answer/pre-emptive answer.

Felgrand doesn't defeat Beelze, it just makes it vulnerable to destruction by battle. I honestly am not trying to argue that the card is overpowered, just trying to chime in. It certainly is a powerful card, though.

[Dog King]

cough fiendish chain breakthrough skill cough

[Zauls]

Anyone trying to say that Beelze is broken/overpowered is completely wrong and needs to actually think about it for a second. It is a powerful thing to sit on and counters some big threats *cough JD cough* but it doesn't actually do anything other than sit there. It is also harder to make than one might think and it requires a certain amount of dedication and isn't splashable. There are soooo many commonly played outs to it and non-destruction removal is becoming all the more common.

 

Anyway, this has gotten very far off-topic, hasn't it...

[WeebYGO]

Anyone trying to say that Beelze is broken/overpowered is completely wrong and needs to actually think about it for a second. It is a powerful thing to sit on and counters some big threats *cough JD cough* but it doesn't actually do anything other than sit there. It is also harder to make than one might think and it requires a certain amount of dedication and isn't splashable. There are soooo many commonly played outs to it and non-destruction removal is becoming all the more common.

 

Anyway, this has gotten very far off-topic, hasn't it...

Hmm yeah, its not op for competetive play...
Buts its immortal for basic play when you don't have any of those cards stated earlier on.
Also, its quite easy to summon in some decks like archfiend, maybe dark world? I dunno if they run tuners?
Or pretty much anything that can run Void Ogre Dragon...
Its not op for competitive, but for normal gameplay its broken.

[Blake]

I fail to see how, because "normal" jsut means optimized decks despite not being tier.