Sunn O))) Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhnCp9IAKv8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Crouton Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 This debate needs to be translated into Layman's because I have no idea what they're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~ P O L A R I S ~ Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 I don't know who the f*** "Thunderf00t" and "Gman" are, but obviously "The Amazing Atheist" has an agenda, it's on his channel, "Gman" calls himself an atheist in [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=184ROlSAbyc]this video[/url] linked in the comments below the "debate", and the "Drunken Peasants" podcast hosts aren't exactly pro-Christian either if you look them up. Not sure whether "Gman" took the fall here or not, but in either case the podcast hosts are pandering to an atheist audience, they jumped down "Gman"'s throat throughout the "debate" while letting "Thunderf00t" talk, and in general they didn't give fair representation to the viewpoint opposing their own, which doesn't make for much of a debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thar Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Speaking as an atheist myself: There is no debate here. Religion is an opinion, which can't be argued. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Thampwison Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Rather stupid thread, no point in debating this, each to their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~ P O L A R I S ~ Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Religion is an opinion, which can't be argued. Period. Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thar Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Why not? Cause it's pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Well religious debates really can't exist unless both parties are within the same general vicinity of worldview. There is no god Yes there is. Nuh huh Yes huh That's not really a debate. It's a monumental waste of time and only contributes to the detriment of society. You can believe or disbelieve whatever you want, but the kind of shit the dreds guy and the Amazing Asshole spew would be considered hate speech if applied to any other group of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~ P O L A R I S ~ Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Cause it's pointless. People wouldn't do it if they didn't think there were a point. That's not really a debate. It's a monumental waste of time and only contributes to the detriment of society. It's a dialectic which keeps the issue of spirituality relevant and contributes to people's identities. Trivializing religion and avoiding discussing it at all costs because it scares you isn't better than talking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Thampwison Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 It'll probably become argument rather than a debate or a discussion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~ P O L A R I S ~ Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 If everyone involved is a willing participant in the argument/discussion/debate, then presumably they all think there's a point. I don't see why it should be universally considered a pointless endeavour if it's about religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BehindTheMask Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 I don't know who the f*** "Thunderf00t" and "Gman" are, but obviously "The Amazing Atheist" has an agenda, it's on his channel, "Gman" calls himself an atheist in this video linked in the comments below the "debate", and the "Drunken Peasants" podcast hosts aren't exactly pro-Christian either if you look them up. Not sure whether "Gman" took the fall here or not, but in either case the podcast hosts are pandering to an atheist audience, they jumped down "Gman"'s throat throughout the "debate" while letting "Thunderf00t" talk, and in general they didn't give fair representation to the viewpoint opposing their own, which doesn't make for much of a debate. Thunderf00t is a YT athiest who made a popular(to athiests) video series attacking creationism. He's a really big bigot though, and Ive stopped caring about him. Dunno who Gman is though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aix Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 I haven't watched the video, since I really don't want to spend 50 minutes on it, but anyway just some things I've occasionally thought about. Shoot me, but let me throw this out there. If there is an omnipotent, omniscient God, why is there suffering, and so much suffering, in this world? If God knows the future and whether or not you'll sin, why does He punish you for what He knew already would happen? People have free will, but people are also greatly affected by their surroundings and occurrences in their life. An all-powerful, understanding and benevolent God should be able to guide you and prod you with said surroundings and occurrences. Do note that I am rather ignorant on the topic because I actually don't give a shit. My view is pretty apathetic, you can practice your religion as long as it doesn't affect me or it doesn't harm others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 I haven't watched the video, since I really don't want to spend 50 minutes on it, but anyway just some things I've occasionally thought about. Shoot me, but let me throw this out there. If there is an omnipotent, omniscient God, why is there suffering, and so much suffering, in this world? If God knows the future and whether or not you'll sin, why does He punish you for what He knew already would happen? People have free will, but people are also greatly affected by their surroundings and occurrences in their life. An all-powerful, understanding and benevolent God should be able to guide you and prod you with said surroundings and occurrences. Do note that I am rather ignorant on the topic because I actually don't give a s***. My view is pretty apathetic, you can practice your religion as long as it doesn't affect me or it doesn't harm others. Everyone's beliefs effect everyone else simply due to the fact that we occupy the same society. That being said, unless people harm others, they can pretty much do whatever they please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A._Sakuyamon Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 I haven't watched the video, since I really don't want to spend 50 minutes on it, but anyway just some things I've occasionally thought about. Shoot me, but let me throw this out there. If there is an omnipotent, omniscient God, why is there suffering, and so much suffering, in this world? If God knows the future and whether or not you'll sin, why does He punish you for what He knew already would happen? People have free will, but people are also greatly affected by their surroundings and occurrences in their life. An all-powerful, understanding and benevolent God should be able to guide you and prod you with said surroundings and occurrences. Do note that I am rather ignorant on the topic because I actually don't give a s***. My view is pretty apathetic, you can practice your religion as long as it doesn't affect me or it doesn't harm others. Well, who's to say he/she/it/concept hasn't? With the power an Omnipotent Being possess there is no singular time line. That being said, I'm a believer of infinity so I pretty much have to look at everything from a negative & positive outlook on the highest of scales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aix Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Well, who's to say he/she/it/concept hasn't? With the power an Omnipotent Being possess there is no singular time line. Why would he create a timeline with so much suffering? Why is suffering necessary or wanted? Why does he not do away with creating a timeline with suffering? If we are going by the infinite timelines thing, if he was infinitely powerful, couldn't he just rewrite the laws of the universe and make it just that there's one fine and dandy world where people can be happy? That being said, I'm a believer of infinity so I pretty much have to look at everything from a negative & positive outlook on the highest of scales. What do you mean? Everyone's beliefs effect everyone else simply due to the fact that we occupy the same society. That being said, unless people harm others, they can pretty much do whatever they please. As long as it doesn't greatly affect me* I mean, I have friends and classmates who are religious. I don't care that they are religious. Though it does get awkward when anti-religious jokes are cracked, which occasionally happens. Another friend of mine watches these kind of anti-creationist videos sometimes and I do admit I find this kind of stuff funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A._Sakuyamon Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Why would he create a timeline with so much suffering? Why is suffering necessary or wanted? Why does he not do away with creating a timeline with suffering? If we are going by the infinite timelines thing, if he was infinitely powerful, couldn't he just rewrite the laws of the universe and make it just that there's one fine and dandy world where people can be happy? What do you mean? As long as it doesn't greatly affect me* I mean, I have friends and classmates who are religious. I don't care that they are religious. Though it does get awkward when anti-religious jokes are cracked, which occasionally happens. Another friend of mine watches these kind of anti-creationist videos sometimes and I do admit I find this kind of stuff funny. 1. Refer to 2. Also, good and bad are subjective. And to even to try understanding an omnipotent being you have to understand that. 2. As a believer of infinity I have to accept everything. Whether it is good/bad/ or even beyond my understanding. An example: In an infinite number of universes rape is considered good. But in an infinite number of other universes rape is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aix Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 For the first part I'm not referring to your beliefs, I wondering why religious people do not see this fallacy in an omnipotent and benevolent God. Religion defines things as good and bad, that is a big part of religion, so in the eyes of religion, it is most definitely not subjective. As for your beliefs, I fail to see how the fact that there are infinite universes would ever affect you in any way and, as well, what reason you have for believing this. Rape is considered bad in this universe though. It causes trauma and things that people don't want. Why is it still here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~ P O L A R I S ~ Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 God is unsearchable, He can only be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 For the first part I'm not referring to your beliefs, I wondering why religious people do not see this fallacy in an omnipotent and benevolent God. Religion defines things as good and bad, that is a big part of religion, so in the eyes of religion, it is most definitely not subjective. Basically your question is the same as this quote by Epicurus: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” I will admit it's a logical issue, if you believe in an all knowing, all powerful, and benevolent God. Which is why I believe the world was started by a God, who created the science that created us. And that we are judged in the end, but other than that, we're left to our own devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A._Sakuyamon Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 For the first part I'm not referring to your beliefs, I wondering why religious people do not see this fallacy in an omnipotent and benevolent God. Religion defines things as good and bad, that is a big part of religion, so in the eyes of religion, it is most definitely not subjective. As for your beliefs, I fail to see how the fact that there are infinite universes would ever affect you in any way and, as well, what reason you have for believing this. Rape is considered bad in this universe though. It causes trauma and things that people don't want. Why is it still here? My answer I suppose, my oneness. And your right in this single universe it doesn't stop me from having my own opinions about it. That's perfectly fine. Why? I can't answer that. Each person that does it has there own reasons. You might as well ask why we play games, why games are entertaining, ect, ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~ P O L A R I S ~ Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 Basically your question is the same as this quote by Epicurus: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” I will admit it's a logical issue, if you believe in an all knowing, all powerful, and benevolent God. Which is why I believe the world was started by a God, who created the science that created us. And that we are judged in the end, but other than that, we're left to our own devices. There's no logical problem. God is omniscient and Epicurus isn't, so it is for God to know what is good and what is evil while Epicurus can only guess. Since Epicurus can only guess, how can he know anything to be truly evil at all? And if, as it turns out, nothing is truly evil, and Epicurus only labels things evil because he doesn't understand their goodness, then God is both omnipotent and benevolent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 There's no logical problem. God is omniscient and Epicurus isn't, so it is for God to know what is good and what is evil while Epicurus can only guess. Since Epicurus can only guess, how can he know anything to be truly evil at all? And if, as it turns out, nothing is truly evil, and Epicurus only labels things evil because he doesn't understand their goodness, then God is both omnipotent and benevolent. I refuse to believe nothing is evil. Because that would mean that it should be fine to do whatever you want without any repercussions, which would be a horrible world to live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~ P O L A R I S ~ Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 Why believe in evil when you can believe in God instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 Because if you don't believe in evil you believe the bad things people do are not wrong. Without evil there is no good. And then what's the point in God if not to counter the evil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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