Phenax, God of Deception

[Sunn O)))]

 

Cannot be Normal Summoned/Set. Must be Special Summoned (from your hand) by banishing 1 DARK and 1 WATER monster from your Graveyard, and cannot be Special Summoned by other ways. Cannot be destroyed by battle or by card effects. Once per turn: You can tribute 1 monster you control; Send cards from the top of your opponent's deck to the Graveyard equal to the Level of the tributed monster.

[Trebuchet MS]

So you mill 0 when you, for any reason, Tribute Xyz monsters?

[Sunn O)))]

So you mill 0 when you, for any reason, Tribute Xyz monsters?

 

Yes. But why would you ever tribute a Xyz monster, knowing that it's not going to do anything? I could always change that, but whatever.

[Poisoned Simochi]

Isn't it OP since it's special summoning condition is relatively easy to fulfil and can't be destroyed by card effects AND by battle?

I mean, this is marshmallon on steroids, high ATK, DEF and deck destruction?

maybe cut a part of it's effect, reduce some of the power factors etc

[Sunn O)))]

Isn't it OP since it's special summoning condition is relatively easy to fulfil and can't be destroyed by card effects AND by battle?

I mean, this is marshmallon on steroids, high ATK, DEF and deck destruction?

maybe cut a part of it's effect, reduce some of the power factors etc

 

OP? Nah. Far too many ways to get rid of it, assuming it even hits the field. Milling your opponent's deck doesn't really do much, unless you can do a lot of it one turn. Most of the time, it will help them. The most OP god I've made has been Iroas, because it can let you OTK, if your opponent has exactly 1 monster. So, this isn't really OP.

[Poisoned Simochi]

 

OP? Nah. Far too many ways to get rid of it, assuming it even hits the field. Milling your opponent's deck doesn't really do much, unless you can do a lot of it one turn. Most of the time, it will help them. The most OP god I've made has been Iroas, because it can let you OTK, if your opponent has exactly 1 monster. So, this isn't really OP.

 

Not milling, I'm speaking about the destruction conditions that take out a big bunch of the ways to get rid of it and summoning requirements that are really not hard to fulfil..

no destruction by battle is already a prob thing with some cards, this though has more to it than just that.

[Sunn O)))]

Not milling, I'm speaking about the destruction conditions that take out a big bunch of the ways to get rid of it and summoning requirements that are really not hard to fulfil..

no destruction by battle is already a prob thing with some cards, this though has more to it than just that.

Okay, so no Torrential, Bottomless, or anything that destroys. You still have generic stuff like 101, Castel, Compulsory, Warning, Dimensional Prison, plus non-generic stuff like Tiaramisu and Baxia.

 

Also, Beelze is easier to summon.

[Darthakin]

How much easier than a DARK and Water monster in the grave can you get? Also; "most of the time it will help them", especially when you mill the Cosmic spell and traps, or the monsters except Chiwen for that matter. 
Getting your BLS into the grave is also hardly any fun. 

The fact this  card cannot be destroyed by either battle or Effects, and that you can win as long as it doesn't get destroyed (cause that's what I comes down too, if you're running a mill deck. You just place some trap negation to prevents compuls and the such) and you can just stall it out. 

Beelze might be easier to summon, but he actually has to attack to be useful, this guy doesn't. 

Most (cough) decks rely on 40 cards. Most mill decks rely on others, such as... the books, some flip effects (warm and needle warm) perhaps a D.Defender and stall cards. This guy could rid the opponents deck of a rough.... 21 cards in one turn by using a soul charge. (Needle, Warm, DEfender, any level 3, This card.). 

So yea. There's my opinion. 

[Sunn O)))]

How much easier than a DARK and Water monster in the grave can you get? Also; "most of the time it will help them", especially when you mill the Cosmic spell and traps, or the monsters except Chiwen for that matter. 
Getting your BLS into the grave is also hardly any fun. 

The fact this  card cannot be destroyed by either battle or Effects, and that you can win as long as it doesn't get destroyed (cause that's what I comes down too, if you're running a mill deck. You just place some trap negation to prevents compuls and the such) and you can just stall it out. 

Beelze might be easier to summon, but he actually has to attack to be useful, this guy doesn't. 

Most (cough) decks rely on 40 cards. Most mill decks rely on others, such as... the books, some flip effects (warm and needle warm) perhaps a D.Defender and stall cards. This guy could rid the opponents deck of a rough.... 21 cards in one turn by using a soul charge. (Needle, Warm, DEfender, any level 3, This card.). 

So yea. There's my opinion. 

 

Yes, let's throw this in a deck that faces major consistency issues so that it has even more consistency issues! Seriously, what deck, besides HEROes teching an Ice Edge, runs Dark and Water monsters? BLS works because Light and Dark work together extremely well. Outside of throwing a few Water monsters in Dark Worlds, or throwing some Darks in Mermail, what deck can realistically summon this? 

 

Also, this working with Oona is totally unintentional, I swear.

[Darthakin]

Running D defender and Treeborn frog supplies you with means to summon it, and both can be used as fairly good stallers. 

and really, what deck doesn't run 101 these days when there's at least SOME easy summon for him. now there's even use for him after he dies. 

 

Disregarding the summoning, imagine you have some issues with it, you'd still could get up to 35 cards in the graveyard. (That's the highest ammount I can think of when using worms. 3 needles, 1 warm (lvl2 and 3 respectively) 

 

A second option would be Dragon Rulers. The odds you're running a Red-eyes D.M. Dragon is high there. and Tidal won't mind being banished too much. (Mythic Water Dragon when running a High-Dragon deck)

continuing on Dragon rulers and the probability of having Red-eyes and 3 rulers out. (which is high, really, even if you banished Tidal), you've gout 37 cards to mill. 

(and running a DDR or DDM isn't that hard with D.Rulers.) 

[Sunn O)))]

Running D defender and Treeborn frog supplies you with means to summon it, and both can be used as fairly good stallers. 

and really, what deck doesn't run 101 these days when there's at least SOME easy summon for him. now there's even use for him after he dies. 

 

Disregarding the summoning, imagine you have some issues with it, you'd still could get up to 35 cards in the graveyard. (That's the highest ammount I can think of when using worms. 3 needles, 1 warm (lvl2 and 3 respectively) 

 

A second option would be Dragon Rulers. The odds you're running a Red-eyes D.M. Dragon is high there. and Tidal won't mind being banished too much. (Mythic Water Dragon when running a High-Dragon deck)

continuing on Dragon rulers and the probability of having Red-eyes and 3 rulers out. (which is high, really, even if you banished Tidal), you've gout 37 cards to mill. 

(and running a DDR or DDM isn't that hard with D.Rulers.) 

 

"My deck runs 3 Dark monsters, and has 1 101 in my Extra deck, so I should probably throw Phenax just in case I ever want to win by deck out. Totally not a bad idea."

 

That's what you sound like. You're basically saying this card is OP because Dragon Rulers run 4 Water monsters and maybe a REDMD. Please come back when you can make an argument that doesn't involve throwing this in a deck that doesn't need it but can maybe summon if the conditions are right. That's like saying, Norleras is OP because my Fairy deck runs 4 Fiends (3 Tour Guide, 1 Whatever) and a bunch of Light Fairies.

[Darthakin]

If that's what I sound like you have some issues in your TTV. 

I throw ideas from the top of my head, and can already find ways to pull an (mind you, easy) mill. 

Even running Synchron synchros would pull this off. 

[Sunn O)))]

If that's what I sound like you have some issues in your TTV. 

I throw ideas from the top of my head, and can already find ways to pull an (mind you, easy) mill. 

Even running Synchron synchros would pull this off. 

 

Just because a deck can probably maybe summon it doesn't mean it should. 

[Darthakin]

effect, battle immunity and milling capabilities whilst running high level monsters is fair enough to run this. 

[Sunn O)))]

effect, battle immunity and milling capabilities whilst running high level monsters is fair enough to run this. 

 

Sure, sacrifice your deck's consistency for a monster that contributes nothing to your deck's strategy. I totally should run Phenax in my Insect deck because I have 2 101s and 1 103 in my Extra.

[Darthakin]

This is you refusing to aknowledge the card's a bit too much. 

Fine, refuse so, I'll leave you to it. 

[magemeek22]

Ok, I'm just going to ignore the dispute going on above me and give my 2 cents:

 

The card is interesting in terms of overall design: You banish a WATER and DARK to get an indestructible monster that allows you to make your opponent mill cards.

 

Unfortunately, it's kinda really weak. Dark and Water are not really archetypes that go well together, so I question the intellect of anyone that thinks so. This card will almost definitely be gone during your opponent's turn with all the techs you mentioned somewhere. And, then that last effect: you need to tribute a monster? I would never go that far.

 

The first two things I mentioned about its weakness serve as its balance points. That said, I'm sure you could buff the last effect to make it, well, more potent. Since Water monsters work well with discarding, why not use the following wording for the last effect;

"Once per turn: You can target 1 monster in your hand or on your side of the field, then send that target to the Graveyard; Send cards from the top of your opponent's deck to the Graveyard equal to the Level of that target."

Makes it a lot more usable imo

[Sunn O)))]

This is you refusing to aknowledge the card's a bit too much. 

Fine, refuse so, I'll leave you to it. 

 

Refusing? How is it too much. It rewards you for running a combination of cards that have little synergy with each other. I've say this is you refusing to acknowledge that your argument is bad.

Ok, I'm just going to ignore the dispute going on above me and give my 2 cents:

 

The card is interesting in terms of overall design: You banish a WATER and DARK to get an indestructible monster that allows you to make your opponent mill cards.

 

Unfortunately, it's kinda really weak. Dark and Water are not really archetypes that go well together, so I question the intellect of anyone that thinks so. This card will almost definitely be gone during your opponent's turn with all the techs you mentioned somewhere. And, then that last effect: you need to tribute a monster? I would never go that far.

 

The first two things I mentioned about its weakness serve as its balance points. That said, I'm sure you could buff the last effect to make it, well, more potent. Since Water monsters work well with discarding, why not use the following wording for the last effect;

"Once per turn: You can target 1 monster in your hand or on your side of the field, then send that target to the Graveyard; Send cards from the top of your opponent's deck to the Graveyard equal to the Level of that target."

Makes it a lot more usable imo

 

He gets it. Making it discards means some douche out there will make a loop with Mermails, I just know it. But, I'll consider it. 

[BatMed]

until now, there isn't an Archetype that include WATER and DARK monsters, as I know. Which mean that even if the summoning's condition seems easy, it is a little hard to build a deck using these two attributes that will fits this card. Also, I suggest to protect it from being destroyed by Battle or by cards effects, and raise its ATK points instead. The Milling part is okay, it could save you by milling your opponent's substantial cards or by milling all your opponent's full Deck and win the duel, but it is useless against archetype like Lightsworns or shadolls...

Overall: Nice card ...

[Poisoned Simochi]

There are enough ways to get water and dark monsters to your grave easily, doesn't say you need an archetype that binds the two.
Any deck can get at least two monsters out for this thing before you easily special summon it, (for example monsters that summon if you're a field disadvantage, if you take damage, etc. Then you have normal summon.) then - you have a guy that basically avoids any destruction (leaving only banish, send or return to hand as viable options which are not always present for your opponent..)
Easy to get to the field, all you need to do is plan it a little, then it's immune to half the things they throw at you, and a mill effect.
It's too much. Try to balance it more.

[Sunn O)))]

There are enough ways to get water and dark monsters to your grave easily, doesn't say you need an archetype that binds the two.
Any deck can get at least two monsters out for this thing before you easily special summon it, (for example monsters that summon if you're a field disadvantage, if you take damage, etc. Then you have normal summon.) then - you have a guy that basically avoids any destruction (leaving only banish, send or return to hand as viable options which are not always present for your opponent..)
Easy to get to the field, all you need to do is plan it a little, then it's immune to half the things they throw at you, and a mill effect.
It's too much. Try to balance it more.

 

I... I give up. No point in trying anymore.

[BatMed]

There are enough ways to get water and dark monsters to your grave easily, doesn't say you need an archetype that binds the two.
Any deck can get at least two monsters out for this thing before you easily special summon it, (for example monsters that summon if you're a field disadvantage, if you take damage, etc. Then you have normal summon.) then - you have a guy that basically avoids any destruction (leaving only banish, send or return to hand as viable options which are not always present for your opponent..)
Easy to get to the field, all you need to do is plan it a little, then it's immune to half the things they throw at you, and a mill effect.
It's too much. Try to balance it more.

 

Yes indeed, I forgot to mention that, the conditions should bit a little bit more complicated... or it will be finshed like the envoy cards :P

[Sunn O)))]

Yes indeed, I forgot to mention that, the conditions should bit a little bit more complicated... or it will be finshed like the envoy cards :P

 

 

Let's compare this to the Envoys.

BLS-EotB: 3000 ATK, can banish a monster, or attack twice. Laughable summoning condition. Currently limited.

CED-EotE: 3000ATK, Nukes field and hand, inflicts 300 X the number of cards nuked. Laughable summoning condition. Currently banned.

Phenax: Cannot be destroyed by battle/card effects. Mills your opponent's deck. Summoning condition that requires dedication. Would be unlimited.

 

Phenax is the nerdy kid that gets bullied, but can eventually do something. CED and BLS are the bullies.

[BatMed]

 

I... I give up. No point in trying anymore.

 

 

Never say that again, our comment aren't to destroy you or to prove that your card is useless, we just give our point of view to improve your card and make it batter :D , after all stays your card 

 

 

Let's compare this to the Envoys.

BLS-EotB: 3000 ATK, can banish a monster, or attack twice. Laughable summoning condition. Currently limited.

CED-EotE: 3000ATK, Nukes field and hand, inflicts 300 X the number of cards nuked. Laughable summoning condition. Currently banned.

Phenax: Cannot be destroyed by battle/card effects. Mills your opponent's deck. Summoning condition that requires dedication. Would be unlimited.

 

Phenax is the nerdy kid that gets bullied, but can eventually do something. CED and BLS are the bullies.

 

 

 

actually a BIG FAT Kid XD , but anyway, as I suggest, you can remove 1 of its protection effect (Battle or effect) and raise its ATK instead, but it still your card... You're own effort, and that's why I think it's a pretty creative good card.

[Sunn O)))]

Never say that again, our comment aren't to destroy you or to prove that your card is useless, we just give our point of view to improve your card and make it batter :D , after all stays your card 

 

 

 

actually a BIG FAT Kid XD , but anyway, as I suggest, you can remove 1 of its protection effect (Battle or effect) and raise its ATK instead, but it still your card... You're own effort, and that's why I think it's a pretty creative good card.

 

Why? Remove the protection from Battle makes it suck. Remove the protection from card effects makes it suck even more. Having low ATK isn't a problem because this isn't supposed to be a hyper offensive beater, it's just a wall.