Because The Verz Haven't Been Topical In A While [Evilswarm Azrael]

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

DARK/Dragon/Xyz/Rank 4/2950 ATK/2550 DEF
4 Level 4 monsters
While this card has Xyz Material, it is unaffected by Spell/Trap effects and the activated effects of Special Summoned monsters. During your Main Phase: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card to target 1 face-up monster your opponent controls; destroy it. If the destroyed monster had been Special Summoned: You can target 1 card on the field; destroy it, then inflict damage to your opponent equal to half the ATK of the first target. This monster cannot attack during the turn you use this effect.

Discuss.

[Blake]

The flavor's awful, off the bat. BEWD is not a DT card, and even with you finding that art, is not flavorful in the slightest. Especially considering the Verz Xyz all gained 50 ATK and lost 50 DEF, bar Nightmare... Who still did that, just flipped his stats after the stat edit. So still the same, effectively. So not even the stat flavor is on point.

It's immune to basically anything relevant except Bear, and then random crap like Plasma... But it costs 4 Level 4s. This is so, so slippery on both sides.

See, right off the bat, you've opened a can of worms with your design. 4 Level 4s is, honestly, too steep an amount to adequately design. Giving up 3 monsters for something strong is one thin, but 4 could make 2 Xyz for the cost of this. So the chances are that you're going to make something either absolutely useless or rewards you too much.

Other than the first effect, it's near useless. Yeah, you can pop 2 cards at once and burn them... ooor you could Delteros for 1 less monster and be just fine.

And I just noticed that it's not once per turn... Yeah, that's really dangerous here, so that needs to be once per turn. Open ended effects like that, especially one that burns like this, are not very good ideas. Doesn't need to be hard OPT, but not 1PT or 2PT is bad.

Now this +2 destruction would be fine for the cost, but then there's the fact that it can't attack that turn. It's so... underwhelming. It really makes it not worth playing.

If you remove the inability to attack and nerf the protection effect a bit (Say, until your next standby phase after it's Xyz Summoned as opposed to while it has Xyz Mterial), it'll be better. But 4 is still really steep.

Alternatively, you could make it 3+ materials, but it only gets the protection (which should still just be for one turn, akin to Azure-Eyes but without activating)if you use 4+. Then the no-attack clause would make sense.

So, it should either become:
3 or more Level 4 Monsters
Until your next Standby Phase after this card is Xyz Summoned with 4 or more Xyz Materials, it is unaffected by Spell/Trap effects and the activated effects of Special Summoned monsters. Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card to target 1 face-up monster your opponent controls; destroy it. If the destroyed monster had been Special Summoned: You can target 1 card on the field; destroy it, then inflict damage to your opponent equal to half the ATK of the first target. This monster cannot attack during the turn you use this effect.

OR

4 Level 4 Monsters
Until your next Standby Phase after this card is Xyz Summoned, it is unaffected by Spell/Trap effects and the activated effects of Special Summoned monsters. Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card to target 1 face-up monster your opponent controls; destroy it. If the destroyed monster had been Special Summoned: You can target 1 card on the field; destroy it, then inflict damage to your opponent equal to half the ATK of the first target.

Also designing support for Evilswarm is bad for the game in every sense, so please don't make more.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

So...what would make it worth 4 Level 4s?

[LeLukeX]

A good boss monster but not really what evilswarms need.  

Evilswarms don't need anything really.

 

Evilswarms are only as good as the matchup, and as of now, they have a bad matchup.  
Satllers unaffected

Shaddolls have Dragon and Squamata to counter Ophion

..

 

And breakthrough Skill Exists so that hurts Ophion's playability... for like forever.  

 

I like him, you could just sit on him and swing to victory.  The guy above obv has no idea the immunity effect itself is "overwhelming"... 

[Blake]

A good boss monster but not really what evilswarms need.  
Evilswarms don't need anything really.
 
Evilswarms are only as good as the matchup, and as of now, they have a bad matchup.  
Satllers unaffected
Shaddolls have Dragon and Squamata to counter Ophion
..
 
And breakthrough Skill Exists so that hurts Ophion's playability... for like forever.  
 
I like him, you could just sit on him and swing to victory.  The guy above obv has no idea the immunity effect itself is "overwhelming"...

So... your post boils down to 0 content and nothing helpful except saying I'm wrong? Would you please explain your reasoning? Because otherwise, your post is nothing but empty information that has nothing to do with the design of the card nor any impact on the game. Your entire post is, effectively, spam.

[Spinny]

A: Black, dont waste your time trying to be a dick to others.

B: LelukeX's comment was fine he did state that he liked the design and then gave a reason, may not be alot of information but you can stop commenting on other peoples comments when you dont even read them well.

Moving off of other people's stupidity,

The card itself is balanced and is worth getting out, might add "the summon of this card cant be negated." since its a boss monster after all.

Ditch the burn effect its nice but unnecessary, the double destruction effect is fine otherwise, just needs a comma instead of a fullstop about here...

During your Main Phase: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card to target 1 face-up monster your opponent controls; destroy it >,< If the destroyed monster had been Special Summoned: You can target 1 card on the field; destroy it, then inflict damage to your opponent equal to half the ATK of the first target. This monster cannot attack during the turn you use this effect.

 

Other than that its balanced and fine.

[Blake]

[quote name="KingOfOblivion" post="6484279" timestamp="1410638441"]
A: Black, dont waste your time trying to be a dick to others.
B: LelukeX's comment was fine he did state that he liked the design and then gave a reason, may not be alot of information but you can stop commenting on other peoples comments when you dont even read them well.[/quote]I'm not trying to be a dick. He made a comment with no grounds and supplied nothing to prove his comment.

He gave nothing. At all. All he said was "Evilswarm don't need anything more, Evilswarm are matchup dependant, and I like this card."

Not one comment on the design, not one comment on balance or anything, just "I like it". That is spam and has been spam for ages. Please refrain from calling other people "stupid" when you lack the grounds to do so.

[quote name="KingOfOblivion" post="6484279" timestamp="1410638441"]
Moving off of other people's stupidity,

The card itself is balanced and is worth getting out, might add "the summon of this card cant be negated." since its a boss monster after all.
Ditch the burn effect its nice but unnecessary, the double destruction effect is fine otherwise, just needs a comma instead of a fullstop about here...

[color=#5a5a5a][font=tahoma][size=3][background=#fbfdfe]During your Main Phase: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card to target 1 face-up monster your opponent controls; destroy it >,< If the destroyed monster had been Special Summoned: You can target 1 card on the field; destroy it, then inflict damage to your opponent equal to half the ATK of the first target. This monster cannot attack during the turn you use this effect.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#5a5a5a][font=tahoma][size=3][background=#fbfdfe]Other than that its balanced and fine.[/background][/size][/font][/color][/quote]Now this is what gets me; You call me stupid with absolutely no provocation, so now I'm going to analyze your review of the card and see if you gave anything correct at all.

"might add "the summon of this card cant be negated." since its a boss monster after all."; Uh, since when is that a good design, especially considering how it is? It's bigger than any cards bar lolKiller, Crazy Box (under Skill Drain), a buffed DDD Leonidas (Proud Ogre, Cerberus, lolCEO can technically boost or punch it), Star Eater, and Qliphorts Shell and Disk if you have Disk or Archive in the Pendulum scale as opposed to the optimal Trampolynx. That's not a lot, though it's not non-existant... just matchup dependant in every sense.

And it's not like Monarchs Storm Forth work on it, considering the Lance ruling.

Then it's immune to basically every relevant card, bar Bear and random cards like Plasma.

So not only can it not be stopped once it hits the board and just blows up to 6 cards from the opponent's board away for detach 3 and you still have an extremely difficult to remove 2950 (Who, by the way, is huge when your opp is low on advantage). And you want to make it immune to having its summon negated.

"Ditch the burn effect its nice but unnecessary"; Okay, why? Can you give a reason it's unneeded? The design clearly hearkens to Number 15 in a sense. The burn effect doesn't seem bad at all, and the only issue here is that it's not once per turn, but it can't attack that turn. If it was once per turn instead of no attacking that turn, the design would be far superior. Why? You can't blow up the field (and burn in addition) in exchange for not swinging with a 2950. That's just a weird, one-sided Exciton with different restrictions. You can blow up as many as 8 cards at once, even barring the burn, and the only answer to it is Solemn Warning; Which you want to [i]remove[/i] its weakness to. Good design move.

The burn's totally fine, and it's a little extra incentive to use it over Delteros, who costs a monster less and whose summon can't be responded to except by negating it. Once Per Turn with the burn in place and that anti-attack removed is fine.

And your OCG fix wasn't even right, either, as you left a second Colon in the middle of the effect. Given the wording, it was intentionally meant to BE a trigger effect that activates after the first, given that it targets again. This is likely to avoid it becoming non-targetting removal. So no, your fix was not correct, even though the wording here does seem a little off. And OCG is often the least important asset of a card in CC, so long as the intent gets through.

So how about:
A. You stop trying to be a random dick to me for whatever reason.
B. Realize how to design cards and what actual quality comments are before you start accusing people of whatever for no reason.

@FF: I posted this earlier, I'll just repost it.

So, it should either become:
3 or more Level 4 Monsters
Until your next Standby Phase after this card is Xyz Summoned with 4 or more Xyz Materials, it is unaffected by Spell/Trap effects and the activated effects of Special Summoned monsters. Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card to target 1 face-up monster your opponent controls; destroy it. If the destroyed monster had been Special Summoned: You can target 1 card on the field; destroy it, then inflict damage to your opponent equal to half the ATK of the first target. This monster cannot attack during the turn you use this effect.

OR

4 Level 4 Monsters
Until your next Standby Phase after this card is Xyz Summoned, it is unaffected by Spell/Trap effects and the activated effects of Special Summoned monsters. Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card to target 1 face-up monster your opponent controls; destroy it. If the destroyed monster had been Special Summoned: You can target 1 card on the field; destroy it, then inflict damage to your opponent equal to half the ATK of the first target.

The two fixes apply to separate sides of the coin. The first is much more safe design, but is also more versatile and easier to summon. The latter is a little less safe, in that it can attack, but it does have incentives to pay an extra Level 4 over Delteros, if only a few.

I don't understand why a Verz'd BEWD (still awful flavor and awful flavor execution) is 4x4, which seems to hurt the flavor more. I will say that, despite the stat flavor being off, it does keep it remotely short of being totally dumb, in that it's only 2950 instead of over 3K.

EDIT: I'm not fond of the protection effect in general, and think that it should still be reduced, but I understand why. Trying to think of how to whittle it down a bit more. I feel like it SHOULD activate, as opposed to being continuous, namely. So:

When this card is Xyz Summoned (with 4 or more Xyz Materials): It is unaffected by Spell/Trap effects and the activated effects of Special Summoned monsters until your next Standby Phase. Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card to target 1 face-up monster your opponent controls; destroy it. If the destroyed monster had been Special Summoned: You can target 1 card on the field; destroy it, then inflict damage to your opponent equal to half the ATK of the first target. This monster cannot attack during the turn you use this effect.

The parentheses segment is only for the 3+, not the 4, obv.

EDIT 2: Also, meant to give you props, FF. It's not perfect, but definitely one of the better ideas (flavor aside... and barring my bias at 4+ mats) in RC in a while.

dammit double post, mod merge this with above pls

[Spinny]

 

 

When this card is Xyz Summoned (with 4 or more Xyz Materials): It is unaffected by Spell/Trap effects and the activated effects of Special Summoned monsters until your next Standby Phase. Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card to target 1 face-up monster your opponent controls; destroy it. If the destroyed monster had been Special Summoned: You can target 1 card on the field; destroy it, then inflict damage to your opponent equal to half the ATK of the first target. This monster cannot attack during the turn you use this effect.

This would NEVER see play.

Great so after 1 of your opponents turn CeD gets to give your opponent an effective -5.... Hooray....

It gets 1 turn to be useful.

You say i posted design flaws but this is absurd.

This has way too many weaknesses that you might aswell just make 2 other xyzs with the 4 monsters you have, there are so many better options.

The protection effect you gave it is completely crap, in what sense do you see this being played? it gets a bit of burn and monster removal for FOUR level 4 monsters... get real.

If its attack was something huge and devastating with MASSIVE destruction effect then it would be fine with no protection...

But it doesnt... 

It was a good attempt and i see where you are coming from but most of its effs were fine except the protection one, but you nerfed ALL of them.

Less protection and twice per turn destruction would be fine since it means it would get decent destruction for 4 level 4's and also have a little bit of protection.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

Can someone explain to me why the hell people keep thinking Black is a dick when he is anything but? He's giving a proper review and critique on all aspects of the card, unlike the the other two here.

King, you have literally no reason to be insulting him. None.

 

Looking it over, I'm trying to think of a way to review the card but Black really hits all of the key points(and way more than I could have thought of), both in countering King's ideas and objecting to the current card.

 

I did want to say that I agree with Black about the whole "please don't design support for Evilswarms".

4 Level 4's feels like it's really demanding a lot, and doesn't actually support Evilswarms other than by name, just saying. When are they legitimately going to get 4 monsters on the field? I would change it to the first of Black's proposed answers, if any. Just…all that effort into removing things by card DESTRUCTION is a bit much; things like the Hands, flipping Mirror Force (outdated, I know), and much, much more can be done with the 3-4 cards that would be needed to make this card, if that makes sense. 

 

It doesn't fit Evilswarms in any way, really, and I feel that nearly every other option for 2 mats/3 mats does it better, and can attack.

2 Castels instead of this, etc etc. 

 

I will also say that I feel the proposed immunity causes the card to become extremely weak, very fast for all the effort put in. 
It needs a nerf, but I feel Black nerfed it a tad bit too much. 

[Blake]

This would NEVER see play.
Great so after 1 of your opponents turn CeD gets to give your opponent an effective -5.... Hooray....
It gets 1 turn to be useful.
You say i posted design flaws but this is absurd.
This has way too many weaknesses that you might aswell just make 2 other xyzs with the 4 monsters you have, there are so many better options.
The protection effect you gave it is completely crap, in what sense do you see this being played? it gets a bit of burn and monster removal for FOUR level 4 monsters... get real.
If its attack was something huge and devastating with MASSIVE destruction effect then it would be fine with no protection...
But it doesnt... 
It was a good attempt and i see where you are coming from but most of its effs were fine except the protection one, but you nerfed ALL of them.
Less protection and twice per turn destruction would be fine since it means it would get decent destruction for 4 level 4's and also have a little bit of protection.

Pay 4 mons for this; -3
Use it once; -1 + burn to opp (total)
They kill it, likely on a -1 or +0; -1-2 + burn (total)

That's not a -5 by any stretch.

And being played is inferior to design. Yes, making it usable is important, but with the fact that you want to balance it first and foremost, if you have to sacrifice some playability outside of gimmicky, that's fine. Rank-Up-Magics, bar Astral Force, are just this.

Like I said before, 4 mats are not easy design. Because they're either going to be underwhelming or overwhelming or a mishmash of design. This only proves my point more.

2950 is pretty damn massive for having immunities. I just went over how very little can get over a protected 2950.

Let's go tell DAD that an infinite destruction effect per turn is fine. Clearly, it's fine to detach 3, blow up 6, and all in one protected turn! And I removed the no attacking on the solid 4 mats, so no I didn't nerf all of it.

I'd compare this to DAD and Batteryman industrial strength. The former is unlimited and generic, the latter is limited but has more powerful shots for each use. It's currently like DAD, and I'm trying to shift it over to BIS.

I did say earlier on that 2pt destruction might be fine, but that doesn't change the core point. Even at once per turn, in design, it has niche reasons to be used over Delteros; Being immune to Veiler/BTS/Compulse are big ones. Are they enough to make t playable outside of gits and shiggles? Nah, but if you're designing for something to be good in the metagame, you're likely making a mess of s*** design.

This isn't 100%, but with the idea of "but it needs to be playable" going before design, then that's not worth commenting on because impact in the game is inferior to design.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

Then why make it "just playable" and not make it "a really good card that people would want to play"?

What's wrong with making it something awesome that everyone would want to use instead of something that's just alright, and might see some play?

I just don't understand why Black seems incapable of making this card more than "playable".

[Blake]

Then why make it "just playable" and not make it "a really good card that people would want to play"?
What's wrong with making it something awesome that everyone would want to use instead of something that's just alright, and might see some play?
I just don't understand why Black seems incapable of making this card more than "playable".

Because to make it what you want, you have to edit the requirements and compromise design. If you went into a 4 Material expecting to make something good enough to be played despite the hefty cost, you went in thinking you'd make a badly designed mess because it has to have way too much risk/reward factor involved. You're paying /4/ cards for /1/. There's a reason that you don't make Basilitrice on 4-5 Mats, and same for Rhognomiant a lot of times. And those are tailored to rewarding you 1 material at a time. This isn't even catered to that, just to "slap 4 on board without negging yourself somehow, overlay them into a boss that teeters between overkill and absurd design".

I just don't understand how I haven't made that clear.

[Love of Ghibli]

The discussion of whether someone wants to use something is 4 materials is kind of farfetched. That makes it barely playable. Everything else is just excessive.

The only thing that I actually disagree with Black on is the "everything relevant bar Bear" and that's only because I think Fire Hand can kill this. And to be honest, wouldn't using this effect to kill a facedown Fire Hand be the ultimate burn to the person who played this soul.

 

To have 4 monsters, when there isn't a deck that easily drops 4 in one turn, almost requires a certain level of staying power. In fact as it stands now it looks to be a counterswarm burn win condition. Like stated before if there are 4 level 4's on the field chances are any combination of the commonly used 2mat rank4's that could do this creature's job if not better. I like the concept of it being 3 mat. It would be far more playable that way and its impact wouldn't be such a slippery slope.

 

 

 

[Blake]

How the burning abyss did I forget fire hand

I genuinely do not have a clue how it slipped my mind

Granted, I also forgot to mention Leo/Yang Zing, but that's also matchup based stuff.

[Love of Ghibli]

How the burning abyss did I forget fire hand

I genuinely do not have a clue how it slipped my mind
 

To give credit where credit is due Broke. N pointed out that Fire Hand wins. I was thinking more on the lines of Veiler and Orange light.

But back to the card. Another problem with the card as it is now is that, you pretty much HAVE to win the turn you play it. Decks now a days have a lot monsters that can either beat over it, help beat over it or just flat out kill it if the person is still around during the next turn. That's not counting the litany of 2/3 mat creatures that would be preferential over this in the first place.