Evilswarm Ophion

[- Minimania -]

Why is nobody playing this? It's amazing against Nekroz and Shaddoll

[Hexanort]

probably because its not that hard to get around anymore

 

nekroz could just play unicore, shadoll have lizard and dragon

even first turn ophion + 4 set arent that scary anymore with denkko around

[Forest Fire]

Really only because of it's non generic material requirement I guess. You have to use it in a certain deck, be it Evilswarm or whatever the other one is called.

probably because its not that hard to get around anymore
 
nekroz could just play unicore, shadoll have lizard and dragon
even first turn ophion + 4 set arent that scary anymore with denkko around

^ that too

[- Minimania -]

probably because its not that hard to get around anymore
 
nekroz could just play unicore, shadoll have lizard and dragon
even first turn ophion + 4 set arent that scary anymore with denkko around

Even with Denko, it's still a 2550 beatstick

EDIT: Even then, it's not that hard to fit in two of the Vanilla Evilswarm and Rescue Rabbit in a Normal Pendulum Deck, just make sure to Pendulum Summon before making Ophion

[Blake]

because evilswarm is a shit deck and almost always has been

[Toffee.]

because evilswarm is a shit deck and almost always has been

Plus, realistically, the only Evilswarm cards that are played are Rabbit and Thunderbird. Nobody gives a shit about the rest.
Id mention that Double Summon guy, but you have to set him up, and therefor, doesn't count.

[- Minimania -]

because evilswarm is a s*** deck and almost always has been

 
 

Even then, it's not that hard to fit in two of the Vanilla Evilswarm and Rescue Rabbit in a Normal Pendulum Deck, just make sure to Pendulum Summon before making Ophion

[Blake]

 
 

vanilla pendulums suck, and with rabbit limited, that sounds terrible

[- Minimania -]

I ended up finding a video supporting Ophion and the Evilswarm, because I don't know what to say
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFQlo3Cfjgg

[Toffee.]

See, the problem with Evilswarms, as a whole, is that they were WAAAAAAY too influenced by the Duel Terminal stuff, but that was the point because they were one of the main points of the story.
Which is also why 99% of the Archetype is mediocre. Cool artworks/etc, sure, but it's honestly mediocre.

[Blake]

well my page fucked up so here's the tl;dr

 

If you can't hold the point, don't use an external source. Especially not a yugituber. That's common sense.

The deck as a whole does not offer value. Even next to constellars, it's forced to keep more in-theme for it to be of use, and its boss isn't as potent as Constellar's.

All of the monsters are ass, except KEerykeion and Castor, and summon helpers do not a deck make.

Infestation Pandemic is cute, but monster removal is, and will be, rampant

The trap is genuinely good, but, again, doesn't offer value, like all the others.

Deck loses to Nekroz.

Deck loses to Shaddoll, just slows them.

Deck loses to BA.

Deck really loses to Yosenju.

I guess it's mildly useful against qli.

 

just looking at the vid from a distance, it just screams "hurr antimeta with obligatory lswarm"... problem being that the lswarm stuff is awful.

 

And it's running Exciton. AT 2. It's already a bad card, but to run 2 of it? Um... eew?

[ihop]

The trouble with Evilswarm right now is that everyone's using Djinn Outs which also happen to be Ophion outs. I wouldn't go as far as calling Evilswarm shit - they've had  a reasonable amount of success at Regionals and ARG Opens so they're not entirely unusable. Also Exciton is definitely not a bad card and never has been lol.

[Forest Fire]

Also Exciton is definitely not a bad card and never has been lol.

if you listen to robin, 101 is bad too. cause removal other destruction exists. to that point i say: effects aren't the only way to destroy monsters so that makes shaddolls bad. same logic really. so robin: why is exciton bad?

i remember playing evilswarm with this. it was so fun. i might remake it w/ darklaw for shits and giggles.

[ihop]

101 is actually kind of bad, but only because it's outclassed by Castel. Having said that 101 does have some advantages so if you're playing a deck with nothing but rank 4s it's worth an extra deck space simply because it's better than the other stuff you can put in your extra.

[Forest Fire]

101 is actually kind of bad, but only because it's outclassed by Castel. Having said that 101 does have some advantages so if you're playing a deck with nothing but rank 4s it's worth an extra deck space simply because it's better than the other stuff you can put in your extra.

i agree that's outclassed (so is Ophion. Moonlight Rose and/or Clear Wing.), but the only time i ever saw robin say why it was bad, he used the logic i stated up there ^

[ihop]

Moonlight Rose and Clear Wing are not even close to outclassing Ophion and I really don't know what gave you that idea. For starters, Clear Wing is only once per turn which means things like Dark Armed and BLS get over it easily, and Nekroz can just summon something twice which isn't too much of a setback. Clear Wing isn't even close to being as good because it doesn't actually do anything to stop the summon so you can just beat over it. Neither of them search a card that makes it immune to backrow, either. Also, more importantly, a card cannot be outclassed by something that needs completely different things to summon it. There aren't any decks I can think of which can churn out level 7 synchros at anywhere near the pace that Evilswarm can except Blackwings, and they're even worse than Evilswarm. 101 is outclassed by Castel because Castel is a direct substitute that requires the exact same things to make yet is usually better because it also deals with problematic floodgates, whereas all 101 does is float which is ok but not fantastic. 

[CLG Klavier]

This deck's doing pretty good for a "piece of shit". I occasionally see it top, so it can't be that bad. Sure, it lacks a lot of proper synergy, but it brings power along for a ride.

 

Also Exciton's amazing what the fuck are you all smoking

[- Minimania -]

When did this become a 101 Castel discussion? Usually in an Extra Deck, you have your basic must haves for the deck, and then some really good staples. Ophion is, and yes I'm saying this, a must have for Evilswarm.

[Expelsword]

Deck loses to Nekroz.

Deck loses to Shaddoll, just slows them.

Deck loses to BA.

Deck really loses to Yosenju.

I guess it's mildly useful against qli.

 

Despite having lots of Level 4 or higher monsters, Infernoids still laugh at them.

People flipping Pandemic like it will save them from Beelzebul and Lucifugus....

 

Orphion was basically created to help push the game away from Synchros and towards Xyz, so back in the day it Wombo'd Synchro players, but nowadays monsters always pay for themselves in some way, and a lot of those ways Wombo this guy right back.

[Minato Sakai]

relavant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM9jjgJzLRg

[ihop]

why did his opponent draw first then send...

[Blake]

I genuinely believe Exciton is not a good card. And I'm not the only one with that opinion.

The only good decks it really hurts are Yosen and Tellar. Moth of which have answer after answer. This isn't to say it can't steal a game against them, but I don't think it's worth an R4 slot, especially in a deck like Nekroz, where I'd rather prioritize.

When I said it doesn't belong in Raidraptors, it was logic that hear his players used before, gleaned from test and test and test. I stand by it.

Even in the undermeta, Exciton doesn't hit near as much as it should, as most decks can bounce back. If you went all in with no recovery, sure, you get punished, but that means you outplay it as much as possible. from testing against both top decks and undermeta, it's just not a good card anymore, especially not in multiples.

As for Evilswarm, of course they still see play. People cling to the deck for some fucking reason, and it does have an unfair boss.

But the cards are pretty much just awful, and have been for a while. Calling evilswarm a complete shit is by thing new, because, as I said, they offer no value. Vanity's to 1 was a huge hit to the deck, as well.

You won't find a really good player playing evilswaem, because the deck just isn't a good deck. It isn't worth it, and hasn't been worth it. Maybe if we had more Rabbit, but even then it's not amazing. It's a bad deck that clings to life.

[ihop]

What exactly is there to prioritise in Nekroz? You only really need 3 synchros in the extra deck anyway as you don't want to be forced into making supoptimal Kaleidoscope plays if you're Mind Crushed, and when you have 12 slots for rank 4 Xyz Exciton is definitely better than the 12th slot. It's also worth mentioning it's good against Qliphort too which are definitely still a relevant deck (more so than Yosenju), not to mention random-ass Ritual Beasts if they forget to Steeds your Manju+Unicore (quite possible) or you make it with Denko which should really be mained in Nekroz these days. I mean, Nekroz is a bit of a bad example anyway since they actually have a rank 4 they want to go for a lot of the time but in decks like Shaddoll or even Qliphort where you don't really want to make a rank 4 a lot of the time Exciton is probably the best reactive rank 4 after Castel.

 

edit: I don't like to use evidence in a discussion about opinions on cards but at YCS Chicago every top 32 decklist that I could find, about 12 of them, played Exciton with the exception of the BA list, even Shaddoll, Ritual Beast and Qliphort.

[Krein]

Exciton is a decent card that can set your opponent back a few steps when you spring it on them at that the right time. It's worth running 1 of.

But all this talk of extra deck staples aside, I can tell you from experience as a former lswarm player that Ophion isn't that big of a threat anymore. There are several ways to get around him that don't involve spells and traps; Unicore, Castel and 101 (which is decent and still has uses), Dragon/Squamata, Carrier, you get the deal. It's sad to see especially considering this was one of my favorite decks, but it's not as useful as it was before. If you want to try and maximize it's usefulness you'd have to pack a crapton of stuff to protect it, limiting other stuff you can do with your deck.

Lswarm commits a lot of its resources in one turn too, making it easy to make their strategy fall flat by getting rid of Key cards such as Infection and of course, Ophion.

[CLG Klavier]

Black, I beg you. Exciton's one of the best Rank 4s out there. I know lots of decks play floaters. I know lots of decks can bounce back. It doesn't change the fact that a card nuking down the entire field (backrow as well, and that's harder to recover than monsters) TWICE is the best thing you can do to bounce back, especially since it barely uses up resources.

 

I can't think of any deck on top of my head that's exceptionally starved for extra deck space to the point of not being able to run Exciton, multi-rank decks aside, and even then I'd probably make space for it and Castel. Not every deck benefits fully from Lavalval Chain or Emeral which are the next contenders for rank 4 slot.

 

Sure, decks can bounce back. Decks can bounce back from everything. So we shouldn't play Fiendish Chains, Vanity, MST, Raigeki and all of that shizz because "most decks can bounce back"? Of course they do, if your deck can't get back into the game and folds to single disruption, it probably fucking sucks. Removal and disruption still buys you the precious time.

 

I mean, you can not like it, that's fine, don't run it if you wanna. I just feel like you're giving it way too little credit.

 

But to stay on topic: I'd simply like to point out the fact that no matter how prevalent Xyz are at the moment, current era clearly pushes EVERY summoning type. And only 1 of them has no Level to be restricted with Ophion.

 

EDIT: Separated chunks of text.