9 people killed in Charleston church shooting.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It's not a terrorist attack 

 

1. the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims

    

    

   He was crazy. That was no sane way to push political aims

[Aerion Brightflame]

"I have to do it... You rape our women and you're taking over our country, and you have to go." - An apparent quote by the gunman to his victims (According to the BBC anyway). 

 

Like sure, it is a racial hate crime, but you can understand why people do call it a terrorist attack. I also refute the idea that calling an incident like this somehow cheapens 9/11 - This is not the first shooting of it's kind within the past 10 years (The main one I recall is the shooting at the Norwegian university something like 7 years ago now which had the motivation of 'stopping the Muslim invasion of Europe'). 

 

Like, you can argue whether it was a sane way to push political aims, but there's enough basis there to make the argument it was a terrorist attack. 

 

OT: My heart goes out to the victims family. This was a horrible event. But even so I just have to sit back, and laugh at the fact this still won't make Americain gun policy change, and this is sad, because there's been more of these kinds of events in the past 2 years that have been broadcast about over the last couple of years in the UK, and that's only going to be the major incidents, not even the presumably large number of smaller incidents. 

 

And it's just laughable. Truly laughable that a first world country, and apparently the greatest superpower on earth, is going to remain in such a state. 

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

"I have to do it... You rape our women and you're taking over our country, and you have to go." - An apparent quote by the gunman to his victims (According to the BBC anyway). 

 

Like sure, it is a racial hate crime, but you can understand why people do call it a terrorist attack. I also refute the idea that calling an incident like this somehow cheapens 9/11 - This is not the first shooting of it's kind within the past 10 years (The main one I recall is the shooting at the Norwegian university something like 7 years ago now which had the motivation of 'stopping the Muslim invasion of Europe'). 

 

Like, you can argue whether it was a sane way to push political aims, but there's enough basis there to make the argument it was a terrorist attack. 

 

OT: My heart goes out to the victims family. This was a horrible event. But even so I just have to sit back, and laugh at the fact this still won't make Americain gun policy change, and this is sad, because there's been more of these kinds of events in the past 2 years that have been broadcast about over the last couple of years in the UK, and that's only going to be the major incidents, not even the presumably large number of smaller incidents. 

 

And it's just laughable. Truly laughable that a first world country, and apparently the greatest superpower on earth, is going to remain in such a state. 

 

It's not laughable at all. It's a tragedy. A tragedy that in this country, no matter how much gun violence happens, nothing is going to change.

 

I don't hate guns. I respect the 2nd Amendment. However, this is the only first world nation with mass shootings and gun violence in general so frequent. That should be red flag #1 that something needs to change. Of course, the NRA and the gun lobby could care less about the victims of the Charleston shooting, Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech, and other victims of gun violence(heck, the NRA accused survivors of Virginia Tech of politicizing their tragedy IIRC). And of course, they'll oppose any gun laws that affect their profit. Why does this matter? Because they are a powerful bunch. I can't see that changing anytime soon.

 

But even so, better gun laws won't stop every shooting and it's not the only change we need. Doesn't mean it's not needed, though. Like I said, I don't hate guns, but they should not be so easily accessible for everyone.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Calling it terrorism is acknowledging him. Can we give martyrdom to him? Cause he failed to achieve that. By calling him a terrorist you are pissing on the grave of the men and woman he killed

[Ire]

Calling it terrorism is acknowledging him. Can we give martyrdom to him? Cause he failed to achieve that. By calling him a terrorist you are pissing on the grave of the men and woman he killed

 

What the f*ck are you saying, man ??  :/

 

I can call anything I want terrorism it won't mean I'm acknowledging anything/one. And I'm not pissing on his victim's graves either... There is an huge amount of words that were made to name things. Please, let us use them ! 

Tbh, I'm quite angry you tell, to those who think that it was terrorism, that they lack respect for the victims !

 

And by the way it won't give him martyrdom, because, first, you don't become a martyr by being a terrorist (and the guys who think so are generally endoctrinated by some manipulators). Furthermore, I kinda think (and hope) that the god in who they trust (if any) is just unforgiving for such maneers...

And he's not dead yet, right ?

 

I must add that, that's not because you're a terrorist that you trust in some god. You can be a guy (almost) like another unbeliever , and be a terrorist as well, trying to kill other people for their beliefs.

(You can also be a terrorist State...  :S)

[T. Sankara]

Please do not label this as terrorism. This is a hate crime and he should either be executed or sentenced to life. It cheapens the misery of 9/11 and such to give one white kid with a loose screw the same level of infamy

 

 

Calling it terrorism is acknowledging him. Can we give martyrdom to him? Cause he failed to achieve that. By calling him a terrorist you are pissing on the grave of the men and woman he killed

 

Stop.  Because that's just what this was.  Terrorism.  An elected official was assassinated in the process.  This man--not boy, MAN--entered a historically black church, intimidated people, and attacked and killed them.  If you can't acknowledge it as terrorism, you are part of the problem.

 

Relevant:  http://www.vox.com/2015/6/18/8803721/charleston-terrorism-racism

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

What the f*ck are you saying, man ??  :/

 

I can call anything I want terrorism it won't mean I'm acknowledging anything/one. And I'm not pissing on his victim's graves either... There is an huge amount of words that were made to name things. Please, let us use them ! 

Tbh, I'm quite angry you tell, to those who think that it was terrorism, that they lack respect for the victims !

 

And by the way it won't give him martyrdom, because, first, you don't become a martyr by being a terrorist (and the guys who think so are generally endoctrinated by some manipulators). Furthermore, I kinda think (and hope) that the god in who they trust (if any) is just unforgiving for such maneers...

And he's not dead yet, right ?

 

I must add that, that's not because you're a terrorist that you trust in some god. You can be a guy (almost) like another unbeliever , and be a terrorist as well, trying to kill other people for their beliefs.

(You can also be a terrorist State...  :S)

Like it or not. Terrorism=Islamic Terrorism for the US atm.

 

Tack that term onto him and you

 

1) Affirm him as a threat

2) Give his death meaning

3) Liken him to ISIS and 9/11

 

You want Terrorism=/=Islam?

 

2 things need to happen

 

1) Islamic populations need to put things like ISIS down, not have 20 year old jump ship on the US and go join ISIS

2) Have media cover said put downing

 

That being said, two separate problems, people calling this terrorism insult the 9 innocent murdered and are just using their death to fuel their political agenda

 

you can call it whatever you want. I can call a random person on the street "sheet" if I want, doesn't mean its correct

[T. Sankara]

Like it or not. Terrorism=Islamic Terrorism for the US atm.

 

Tack that term onto him and you

 

1) Affirm him as a threat

2) Give his death meaning

3) Liken him to ISIS and 9/11

 

You want Terrorism=/=Islam?

 

2 things need to happen

 

1) Islamic populations need to put things like ISIS down, not have 20 year old jump ship on the US and go join ISIS

2) Have media cover said put downing

 

That being said, two separate problems, people calling this terrorism insult the 9 innocent murdered and are just using their death to fuel their political agenda

 

you can call it whatever you want. I can call a random person on the street "sheet" if I want, doesn't mean its correct

 

Wrong again.  Because if terrorism was only linked to Islam, it wouldn't be referred to as terrorism.  It would only be Islampahobia or the like.  Or I guess you wouldn't call entering a historical location with the intent to murder and intimidate an act of terrorism.  Care to define that for me?  And don't say it is only related to Islam.  You're being purposely ignorant to the fact that this was an attack on American Citizens that was racially motivated.  It was and is terrorism.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Wrong again.  Because if terrorism was only linked to Islam, it wouldn't be referred to as terrorism.  It would only be Islampahobia or the like.  Or I guess you wouldn't call entering a historical location with the intent to murder and intimidate an act of terrorism.  Care to define that for me?  And don't say it is only related to Islam.  You're being purposely ignorant to the fact that this was an attack on American Citizens that was racially motivated.  It was and is terrorism.

Let say he wasn't mentally ill and go with that. The word terrorism post ISIS= raghead thanks to our lovely media

 

This racist swine does not need martyrdom, he needs a needle in his arm, stop glorifying him

[Ire]

Like it or not. Terrorism=Islamic Terrorism for the US atm.

 

Tack that term onto him and you

 

1) Affirm him as a threat

2) Give his death meaning

3) Liken him to ISIS and 9/11

 

You want Terrorism=/=Islam?

 

2 things need to happen

 

1) Islamic populations need to put things like ISIS down, not have 20 year old jump ship on the US and go join ISIS

2) Have media cover said put downing

 

That being said, two separate problems, people calling this terrorism insult the 9 innocent murdered and are just using their death to fuel their political agenda

 

you can call it whatever you want. I can call a random person on the street "s***" if I want, doesn't mean its correct

 

Oh, sh*t...

 

First of all, Islam =//////////= ISIS, that was to be said

 

2nd : If I someone (anyone, anything) threats you, it can ALWAYS be considered as terrorism.

 

And I believe Islamic populations mostly disagree with ISIS-like methods and aims

 

+ a death never has a meaning to me.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Like it or not. Terrorism=Islamic Terrorism for the US atm.

 

Tack that term onto him and you

 

1) Affirm him as a threat

2) Give his death meaning

3) Liken him to ISIS and 9/11

 

You want Terrorism=/=Islam?

 

2 things need to happen

 

1) Islamic populations need to put things like ISIS down, not have 20 year old jump ship on the US and go join ISIS

2) Have media cover said put downing

 

That being said, two separate problems, people calling this terrorism insult the 9 innocent murdered and are just using their death to fuel their political agenda

 

you can call it whatever you want. I can call a random person on the street "s***" if I want, doesn't mean its correct

This is such ignorance.

Terrorism is a word that's been around a while and it's used for far more than that even in the US

 

As for your "2 things"

1) No one hates extremists more than Muslims

2) I suppose it should be shown more, but still

 

How does it insult those people? It's what it is. 9/11 being an act of terrorism didn't detract from the tragedy at all.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Oh, sh*t...

 

First of all, Islam =//////////= ISIS, that was to be said

 

2nd : If I someone threats you, it can ALWAYS be considered as terrorism.

 

Islamic populations mostly disagree with ISIS-like methods and aims

Really? Show an american a picture of Timothy McVeigh and Osama, ask them who the terrorist is. The perception may be wrong, but that is how it is.

[Ire]

Really? Show an american a picture of Timothy McVeigh and Osama, ask them who the terrorist is. The perception may be wrong, but that is how it is.

 

Both were terrorist.

And as you, I won't ask them (the islamic populations) because I can't.... we have no idea of what the answer could be, you know.

(and I'm pretty sure they don't even know who's McVeigh)

[T. Sankara]

Both were terrorist.

And as you, I won't ask them (the islamic populations) because I can't.... we have no idea of what the answer could be, you know.

(and I'm pretty sure they don't even know who's McVeigh)

 

They need to know who both men are.  Because both men were terrorists.  And to ignore domestic terrorism because of some bullshit propaganda dealing with a terrorist group over seas is willfully ignorant.  It's not about glorifying the killer.  It's about reporting this as it is.  It's domestic terrorism.

[Ire]

They need to know who both men are.  Because both men were terrorists.  And to ignore domestic terrorism because of some bullshit propaganda dealing with a terrorist group over seas is willfully ignorant.  It's not about glorifying the killer.  It's about reporting this as it is.  It's domestic terrorism.

 

I would be glad to know all terrorists who ever lived, but that seems quite impossible... :/

 

Not everybody is from the US....

I'm ignorant, not willfully ignorant, and every people is in the same situation (for example I'm pretty sure you never heard of Mohamed Merah, whereas he's known in France for his terrorist acts)

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Really? Show an american a picture of Timothy McVeigh and Osama, ask them who the terrorist is. The perception may be wrong, but that is how it is.

That's some mighty fine generalization you're doing there.

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

Just thought I'd post this in here: http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/19/news/guns-background-checks/index.html

 

 

They need to know who both men are.  Because both men were terrorists.  And to ignore domestic terrorism because of some bullshit propaganda dealing with a terrorist group over seas is willfully ignorant.  It's not about glorifying the killer.  It's about reporting this as it is.  It's domestic terrorism.

 

Yeah, domestic terrorism should not be ignored either.

[T. Sankara]

I would be glad to know all terrorists who ever lived, but that seems quite impossible... :/

 

Not everybody is from the US....

I'm ignorant, not willfully ignorant, and every people is in the same situation (for example I'm pretty sure you never heard of Mohamed Merah, whereas he's known in France for his terrorist acts)

 

I didn't mean you, I was summarizing the statement you quoted.  Sorry if it looked like I was attacking you.

[Ire]

I didn't mean you, I was summarizing the statement you quoted.  Sorry if it looked like I was attacking you.

 

Don't worry, I was jut saying that it is impossible to know everything. I didn't feel attacked, I only wanted to point that  ;)

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

So....http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/20/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/index.html

[T. Sankara]

So....http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/20/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/index.html

 

So he's a racist AND an idiot.  That summarizes more of it.

[Tentacruel]

 

"This is all surreal but what I can say to that young man is that in time I will forgive you," Hurd told CNN affiliate WCIV. "I won't move past this but I will forgive you. But I hope for the rest of your life, however long or short that may be, you stop and play that tape over and over and over again in your head and see the sheer terror and pain you put purely innocent people through. ..."

"I would love to hate you but hate's not in me. If I hate you I'm no better than you."

 

Well sheet.  This might be a case of No True Scotsman, but that's a real Christian.  I don't know if I would be able to say as much if it were me. 

 

But yeah, this thing seems really prescient of terrorist attacks.  The guy wasn't a racist like this all his life, apparently, but picked up this radical mindset over the last few years.  Indoctrination, in a sense.

 

It was a targeted attack.  I'd say it qualifies for terrorism. 

[T. Sankara]

Well sheet.  This might be a case of No True Scotsman, but that's a real Christian.  I don't know if I would be able to say as much if it were me. 

 

But yeah, this thing seems really prescient of terrorist attacks.  The guy wasn't a racist like this all his life, apparently, but picked up this radical mindset over the last few years.  Indoctrination, in a sense.

 

It was a targeted attack.  I'd say it qualifies for terrorism. 

 

This is what Christianity is all about.  And I think that statement was more than accurate.  Any bigot who would dare say my Lord and Savior taught them hate is a liar.

[Fusion X. Denver]

Well sheet.  This might be a case of No True Scotsman, but that's a real Christian.  I don't know if I would be able to say as much if it were me. 

 

But yeah, this thing seems really prescient of terrorist attacks.  The guy wasn't a racist like this all his life, apparently, but picked up this radical mindset over the last few years.  Indoctrination, in a sense.

 

It was a targeted attack.  I'd say it qualifies for terrorism. 

I think that's really brave of him to show forgiveness. That very well may have been the hardest thing he had to do in his life.

I don't think I'd be able to do that.

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/26/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/index.html

 

So, the shooter wanted an AR-15. He even had magazines for the gun with him. It's scary to imagine a weapon like an AR-15 in the hands of a guy like this.