Zazubat Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 If the card you used only gives you temporary control, such as Mind Control, then control of Rabbit would go back to your opponent during your End Phase.well that just makes sense, but anything that steals it forever (until destroyed/returned), such as Big Eye, shouldn't do such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 why? I need a good reason, cause Rabbit doesn't say that it returns to it's owners field. You didn't read anything I said in my post, did you? Rabbit is a temporary removal, just like Interdimensional Matter Transporter, Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon, etc. As I said twice now, it returns to your side of the field since it was banished with its own effect while it was on your side of the field. If the effect which granted you control of Rabbit is gone, Rabbit will then return from your side of the field back to the opponent's. well that just makes sense, but anything that steals it forever (until destroyed/returned), such as Big Eye, shouldn't do such a thing. Remember, you weren't clear in your own question. Remember how I said "'Steal' isn't enough information"? No mention of Big Eye, or otherwise permanent control, was said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Whoever has permanent control (Monster Reborn, Tragoedia) of GEPD or Wind-Up Rabbit will be the player getting Rabbit back. If the player activating the effect only has temporary control (Mind Control, etc), Rabbit will return to the player who has permanent control of it after returning to the Field Will Number 50: Blackship of Corn cause monsters (such as dupe frog) to miss timing because of the effect damage it inflicts. I'm thinking it doesn't since it says AND but not THEN, but I really don't know..Sending and burning is simultaneous. It wont cause things to miss timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 I never asked anything... that was newhat. I thought you meant that the control would switch back after it returned to the changed controllers side of the field, not that it returned because of an other effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 I never asked anything... that was newhat. I thought you meant that the control would switch back after it returned to the changed controllers side of the field, not that it returned because of an other effect. Then that's my mistake. Even then, your response was asking about Rabbit as well, nor was it talking about temporary or permanent control either, making just as uninformative to give a proper response to. What else can I do? =/ To add, make clear who's taking control of Rabbit, using effect, etc. You're only confused because none of this was clear. Based on the question that was asked, my statements were under the assumption that you took control of Rabbit and used its effect (or in this case, newhat). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Mostly my fault for not seeing that you meant that it was in opponent's control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Generally, I always say "opponent" as in the person who isn't you. I generally take the person asking the question as the one performing the actions being asked, unless specified otherwise. Although, newhat did say he was performing the actions anyway, so I guess it was pointless for me to say this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhat Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Let's say One-Eyed Skill Gainer copies Utopia Ray, and I equip Gainer with ZW - Unicorn Spear. Later, my opponent's One-Eyed Skill Gainer copies my "Utopia Ray" (Skill Gainer) and equips it with his own Unicorn Spear, then attacks. What happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Let's say One-Eyed Skill Gainer copies Utopia Ray, and I equip Gainer with ZW - Unicorn Spear. Later, my opponent's One-Eyed Skill Gainer copies my "Utopia Ray" (Skill Gainer) and equips it with his own Unicorn Spear, then attacks. What happens? They kill each other. The effect which copies name and effect are not continuous. It is an Ignition Effect of One-Eyed Skill Gainer. Once applied, being negated later doesn't change the names back nor does it change their effects back. I've looked at all the cards over and over and not sure if i'm missing anything from what you're asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhat Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 No, you didn't; I did. I probably should have asked that question first. I thought they worked like Leviathan Dragon where being negated reverts them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 No, you didn't; I did. I probably should have asked that question first. I thought they worked like Leviathan Dragon where being negated reverts them. I don't believe so. Negation should stop self-applied modifications of ATK/DEF/Levels, but I don't think Name and Effect for these types of effects. I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Interestingly, One-Eyed Skill Gainer states the new monster's effect becomes its original effect. By this logic, Skill Drain/etc will NOT remove the effect or name, because the effect of Skill Gainer changing the name/effect no longer exists on that monster. Its original effect is the one it is copying and only that one is being negated. (Flipping it facedown or removing it from the Field, of course, resets this). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpakha Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 Ruling about Spellbook of the master & other spell books. Example: I activate spellbook of secrets to add a spellbook to my hand. Then a activate master, revealing the book I just added to hand, to copy spellbook of secrets effect and to add another spellbook to my hand. Is that legal? Since master copies the effect and not the name and secrets only says "Only 1 "Spellbooks of Secrets can be activated per turn" instead of "This effect can only be activated per turn". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 It's legal. It's pretty much the entire use of Sefer--to double-up on your effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpakha Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 It's legal. It's pretty much the entire use of Sefer--to double-up on your effects. Okay cool, I thought it worked like that but I needed to double check first. Thx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderVolt Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 If an opponent activates a card, like say a trap card. and you negate it with Seven Tools of the bandit, will Tachyon Dragons effect to gain 1000 attack and attack again be applied? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 If an opponent activates a card, like say a trap card. and you negate it with Seven Tools of the bandit, will Tachyon Dragons effect to gain 1000 attack and attack again be applied?Are you asking if the user of Tachyon Dragon negates a trap card with Seven Tools that Tachyon Dragon will get its effect? It would not, because they never activated an effect. The card was negated at activation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cute Rotten Yoshika Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 if an ACTIVATION is negated, the card is treated as having never existed for the purposes of tachyon/counter fairies/any other card who has an effect that requires another effects activation. if an EFFECT is negated (by say royal decree) the card still activates but nothing happens when it resolves. you can use tachyon then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderVolt Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 Thank you both, that is what I figured but always wanted additional verification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 You can't Synchro Summon using Jowgen the Spiritualist as a material while its effect is not negated, correct? The tournament I was at everyone said you could when I was telling them they can't. I had literally even just explained that ruling to them in regards to Acid Golem before they did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 You can't Synchro Summon using Jowgen the Spiritualist as a material while its effect is not negated, correct? The tournament I was at everyone said you could when I was telling them they can't. I had literally even just explained that ruling to them in regards to Acid Golem before they did it.yes, you can't even attempt it, which I learned a long time ago is really important. Since you can't attempt, anything that would attempt to destroy that card to SS will not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 yes, you can't even attempt it, which I learned a long time ago is really important. Since you can't attempt, anything that would attempt to destroy that card to SS will not work.Yeah, that's what I told them six times, but nobody believed me. I told them that since they won't agree and I don't agree that I'll just shut up and bring the ruling next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 Judges don't even know the rules, sigh this game is too complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 The thing is, they even admitted that you can't use Acid Golem for a fusion or anything, but they said Jowgen is different somehow because it says face-up on the field? I told them "Yeah, but Acid Golem's effect doesn't work in the grave, does it?" and they had no response. Well, there's no official ruling for Dyna, Jowgen, or Acid Golem in regards to this, so I guess I'm F'd =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 The thing is, they even admitted that you can't use Acid Golem for a fusion or anything, but they said Jowgen is different somehow because it says face-up on the field? I told them "Yeah, but Acid Golem's effect doesn't work in the grave, does it?" and they had no response. Well, there's no official ruling for Dyna, Jowgen, or Acid Golem in regards to this, so I guess I'm F'd =/there's the general rule that you can't SS when cards say you can't SS, that should be good enough for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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