Cohesive archetypes

[Surge77754]

An archetype is cohesive if you can pick 4 cards from said archetype and try to figure out the mechanic.  If you can figure out the mechanic, then every other card you haven't picked from the 4 you were going to analyze will have some aspects of the mechanic.  

Here are some examples of a mechanic

• Morphtronics is about using their Battle Position to do things.
• Applicancer is taking advantage of co-linking to do things.  It is a going 2nd co-linked based deck.
• Superheavies is about attacking in DEF position.
• Gladiator beasts is about tagging out during the Battle Phase.
• Mekk-Knights is about columns.
• Weather painters is about columns and granting quick effects to monster via their continuous Spell/Traps.
• Unions itself is a mechanic because it involves unequipping/equipping a monster.
• Fire King and Rockets are about destroying stuff.

If every card in the archetype did its own thing, that wouldn't be cohesive because we wouldn't be able to figure out the mechanics of said archetype.  Every card in the archetype needs to have some aspect of the mechanic.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Surge77754

[Surge77754]

Going 1st for a custom archetype is good and all, but if you are forced to go 2nd, some custom archetypes you make will have a problem.  Going 1st for an archetype means to put a body on the board to try and hinder the opponent.  It doesn't always have to be just negates though - it could be disruptions (removal) that prevent you from putting a body on the board.

If your archetype struggles to put a body on the board, it has trouble going 2nd.  Let's look at how to this by looking at the definition of a going 2nd card - a going 2nd card is a card that is meant to break or turn off the opponent's board.  

Breaking the opponent's board means removing problematic threats that prevent you from playing the yugioh game, esp. when it comes to the opponent's going 1st end board.  This can include set Trap cards that can prevent you from putting a body on the board.

Kaijus, Lava Golem, Ra - Sphere Mode, Kurikara Divincarnate, Dark Ruler no More, Harpie's Feather duster, Lightning storm are all examples of going 2nd cards that break the opponent's board.  Megafleet Dragon is another example of a going 2nd card that breaks an opponent's board.

Dark Ruler no More is a going 2nd card that turns off the opponent's board.   

Ash Blossom is a key card in going 2nd, but that is more of a drawing the out type of problem.

Infinite Impermanence is a going 2nd card, though it can play going 1st by setting it.  

Looking from another perspective, Midrange decks have a way to play 1st and 2nd hence they are very versatile.  Midrange decks can adapt to 1 hand trap and set up something going 1st, and they also have ways of turning off/breaking the opponent's board.   Depending on the way a midrange deck is set up, it could also have an OTK component without you knowing it.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Surge77754

[Surge77754]

Going 2nd means ANY of the following:

• Sealing the opponent's set backrow for 1 turn.
• Destroying the opponent's backrow.
• Having a lot of multiple attackers.
• Having direct attack monsters.
• Having a lot of stat boosts.

Going 2nd is just as important as going 1st which is explained in my earlier post.

[Surge77754]

Here's a simple way to check that your custom archetype is balanced.

• If you have a Counter Trap omni-negate, it's better not to make any more negates, as that will make the opponent more likely to quit against you.
• Check the # of interruptions (effects that destroy, banish, etc.) on the endboard.  It should be a reasonable #. Interactions are what you do on your opponent's turn, but NOT all interactions disrupt the opponent's plays, so keep this in mind.  An interruption is an interaction that removes your opponent's play.
• Check the endboard for protection effects - they should be reasonable enough for the opponent to break your board.  NOT full board protection, which is unreasonable.
• And also, put hard once per turns on your cards.  Searchers, extenders, etc.  

[Rongaulius]

Nonsense. Why would you want to allow your opponent to make any plays against your custom archetype, let alone break your board or worse (horrors!!): beat you?

[Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan]

This is unreasonable.

[Surge77754]

11 hours ago, Rongaulius said:

Nonsense. Why would you want to allow your opponent to make any plays against your custom archetype, let alone break your board or worse (horrors!!): beat you?

Ah, here's the thing.  You see, let me explain.  Yugioh is supposed to be a back and forth interaction between 2 players.  Going 1st you set up and end board and the opponent tries to break it going 2nd, that's how yugioh works.  As Lon as you have ways to recover your resources like recycling stuff, you should be fine.

If you deny the opponent, you are essentially playing solitaire with your archetype, which is no fun.  

 

10 hours ago, Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan said:

This is unreasonable.

Not exactly.  Yes, control decks are strictly going 1st and trying to hinder the opponent, but going 2nd is necessary as well if you want to win yugioh.  

Yes, you want your opponent to play against you, but at the same time, you don't want your turn 1 board to have multiple negates/disruptions, which stops them from playing the game altogether.

[Rongaulius]

49 minutes ago, Surge77754 said:

Ah, here's the thing.  You see, let me explain.  Yugioh is supposed to be a back and forth interaction between 2 players.  Going 1st you set up and end board and the opponent tries to break it going 2nd, that's how yugioh works.  As Lon as you have ways to recover your resources like recycling stuff, you should be fine.

If you deny the opponent, you are essentially playing solitaire with your archetype, which is no fun.  

 

Not exactly.  Yes, control decks are strictly going 1st and trying to hinder the opponent, but going 2nd is necessary as well if you want to win yugioh.  

Yes, you want your opponent to play against you, but at the same time, you don't want your turn 1 board to have multiple negates/disruptions, which stops them from playing the game altogether.

Nonsense.  If I'm going to the trouble of designing a custom archetype, I'll take it as a personal insult if my cards are even remotely capable of losing to any smurf playing an actual, fair deck.  Creating cards that do not automatically win me the duel - no, the match itself - is clearly a sign of deeply-rooted flaws to my character. Your words are heretical and almost outright blasphemous - you would presume that a game for two players should be played with the remotest possibility of the other player winning?!?!? Thou art an lunatic indeed.

I'm off to draw a series of Level 4 Dragonball monsters that have 6000 ATK/DEF and also automatically win me the Match upon normal summon. That'll show you.

 

[Raikoh130]

57 minutes ago, Rongaulius said:

Nonsense.  If I'm going to the trouble of designing a custom archetype, I'll take it as a personal insult if my cards are even remotely capable of losing to any smurf playing an actual, fair deck.  Creating cards that do not automatically win me the duel - no, the match itself - is clearly a sign of deeply-rooted flaws to my character. Your words are heretical and almost outright blasphemous - you would presume that a game for two players should be played with the remotest possibility of the other player winning?!?!? Thou art an lunatic indeed.

I'm off to draw a series of Level 4 Dragonball monsters that have 6000 ATK/DEF and also automatically win me the Match upon normal summon. That'll show you.

But some of the Dragonball characters have over 9000 ATK, lol.

[Rongaulius]

5 minutes ago, Raikoh130 said:

But some of the Dragonball characters have over 9000 ATK, lol.

My bad. Make that 10000.  Also they can Special Summon themselves from the Deck during my opponent's Standby Phase.  Just because.

[Neo-R.]

1 hour ago, Rongaulius said:

My bad. Make that 10000.  Also they can Special Summon themselves from the Deck during my opponent's Standby Phase.  Just because.

It's over 9000Come to think Frieza's ATK. It shoud be 1 million as he claimed once.