Static Posted August 3, 2007 Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 Opinions, and perhaps a debate to follow if anyone disagrees with me. :P Being Liberal, I see abortion as a womans right to not have to endure 9 months of pregnancy if she does not want to, and of course, it wont make much impact, but a small one on overpopulation, especially in "poverty areas." The baby doesn't have a developed or "perceptive" mind by the first trimester, so it's death to prevent 6 months of pregnancy at that point is worthwhile. Official stance: Abortion = The action is not murder until the start of the third trimester, when the brain is closest to full development. Summary of Roe V.s. Wade: Holding: The Constitutional right to personal privacy, the roots of which are found in the 4th, 5th, 9th and 14th Amendments, is "broad enough to encompass a woman's decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy." The right to abortion, however, is not absolute. At some point, a "compelling state interest" in protecting the health of the woman and the potentiality of human life develops which permits the state to protect fetal life even to the point of proscribing all non-therapudic abortions. To balance the competing interests of the woman and the state, the Court set up the following timetable: * First Trimester: The state has no "compelling interest" in protecting the health of the woman because "abortion in early pregnancy, although not without its risks, is relatively safe." The state also has no "compelling interest" in protecting the potentiality of human life because "the compelling point is at viability." Therefore, the state may not regulate abortion at all except to require that the procedure be preformed by a physician. * Second Trimester: Since "the risk to the woman increases as her pregnancy continues," the state, in promoting its interest in protecting the health of the woman "may regulate the abortion procedure in ways that are reasonably related to maternal health." Examples of permissible state regulation are requirements as to the qualifications of the person performing the abortion or the licensure of the abortion facility. * Third Trimester: Since the fetus has the capability of "meaningful life" outside the pregnant woman's womb at "about 28 weeks, but as early as 24 weeks," the state's interest in protecting potential life becomes "compelling" at this point of "viability." Therefore, the state, if it chooses, may regulate and even proscribe abortion except where it is necessary for the preservation of the life or health of the woman. - http://members.aol.com/abtrbng/roe-sum.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry OldMaster Posted August 3, 2007 Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 I voted No, but not because they have more rights, no, because it may be accidental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehodis Posted August 3, 2007 Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 I voted no, but not only adult women. If someone makes a mistake, or if a condom breaks, the person is raped, birth control doesn't work (IT doesn't work in some girls bodies) then they deserve the right to abort. The world is overpopulated anyways, and many mothers aren't very bright. If they're not given the chance to abort, they probably won't be very good mothers, seeing as they didn't want the child. There was a girl around the age of 16 who was raped, she did not have time to get birth control, and the clinic she went to, prolonged the wait for an abortion until it was too late, because under the law, abortion cannot be performed during the third trimester. When she had the child, she killed it. That's murder. Why have mothers who aren't going to care properly for their children? Besides, being pregnant is a whole nother thing on it's own. There are many problems that may happen, plus being pregnant keeps the girl from doing hundreds of things. Aches and pains are unavoidable, feet get swollen, obviously the womb increases in size, and thus the back gets many pains as well. Morning sickness at the beginning of pregnancy. And then while giving birth, there is a chance that the pregnant woman will die.Abortion is right by my books. And now I'm going to climb off my soapbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaaraofthesand617 Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 i voted no because if you were raped you should be able to get an abortion if you so desireI may be a guy but i do know rape isn't by choice so they should be able to get an abortion also if they dont want it and it tecnicly isnt alive she should have a choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire_jr Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 any1 here ever heard george carlin? (hes the worlds best commedian) he does a whole segment on abortion. George Carlin's Thing on Abortionwarning: includes offencive language. lots of offencive language. takes about 1 minute to get to the comedy, but its worth the wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poc Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 If its living and you kill it, Its murder. (That means you murder alot of bugs and plants.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Snakey Wolf Lord Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 I voted no' date=' but not only adult women. If someone makes a mistake, or if a condom breaks, the person is raped, birth control doesn't work (IT doesn't work in some girls bodies) then they deserve the right to abort. The world is overpopulated anyways, and many mothers aren't very bright. If they're not given the chance to abort, they probably won't be very good mothers, seeing as they didn't want the child. There was a girl around the age of 16 who was raped, she did not have time to get birth control, and the clinic she went to, prolonged the wait for an abortion until it was too late, because under the law, abortion cannot be performed during the third trimester. When she had the child, she killed it. [i']That's[/i] murder. Why have mothers who aren't going to care properly for their children? Besides, being pregnant is a whole nother thing on it's own. There are many problems that may happen, plus being pregnant keeps the girl from doing hundreds of things. Aches and pains are unavoidable, feet get swollen, obviously the womb increases in size, and thus the back gets many pains as well. Morning sickness at the beginning of pregnancy. And then while giving birth, there is a chance that the pregnant woman will die.Abortion is right by my books. And now I'm going to climb off my soapbox.Since when were 16 year olds alloud to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehodis Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 Homg. That video was hilarious! "Why is it, when it's us - it's abortion, but when it's chicken - it's an omelette?!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehodis Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 I voted no' date=' but not only adult women. If someone makes a mistake, or if a condom breaks, the person is raped, birth control doesn't work (IT doesn't work in some girls bodies) then they deserve the right to abort. The world is overpopulated anyways, and many mothers aren't very bright. If they're not given the chance to abort, they probably won't be very good mothers, seeing as they didn't want the child. There was a girl around the age of 16 who was raped, she did not have time to get birth control, and the clinic she went to, prolonged the wait for an abortion until it was too late, because under the law, abortion cannot be performed during the third trimester. When she had the child, she killed it. [i']That's[/i] murder. Why have mothers who aren't going to care properly for their children? Besides, being pregnant is a whole nother thing on it's own. There are many problems that may happen, plus being pregnant keeps the girl from doing hundreds of things. Aches and pains are unavoidable, feet get swollen, obviously the womb increases in size, and thus the back gets many pains as well. Morning sickness at the beginning of pregnancy. And then while giving birth, there is a chance that the pregnant woman will die.Abortion is right by my books. And now I'm going to climb off my soapbox.Since when were 16 year olds alloud to do that? Allowed to do what? Have an abortion? Or get pregnant? The former, where I live it is customary that women's clinics allow the option for all women. The latter, I said she was raped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Static Posted August 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 If its living and you kill it' date=' Its murder. (That means you murder alot of bugs and plants.)[/quote'] But you dont go to jail for 25 years for killing a rabbit. And chickens/cows/pigs are mass slaughtered daily. Is that unethical murder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tkill93 Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 Abortion is murder. Its wrong unless it will hurt the woman or in the case of rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaco Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 Abortion is murder. Its wrong unless it will hurt the woman or in the case of rape. Overall, I agree. I think that's pretty fair. If the woman is irresponsible, or is just screwing around too much, they shouldn't be able to just toss out their baby. But if there would be complications with a birth, or if the woman was raped, then abortions should be allowed. Also, going along with complications, I also think it is okay to get an abortion if either parent carries some sort of gene that could be potentially harmful to the baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehodis Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 Tkill, Shaco, for some women (and they probably don't know it until it is too late), the majority of birth control (All of the normal ones, the ones people normally get. Pill, patch etc) don't work in their body. So lets say that person is having safe sex, but the condom rips. So the birth control doesn't work, and the condom was ineffective - unluckily she gets pregnant. She should have to carry out the pregnancy?It's the woman's body, what she wants to do to it/with it is HER choice. No one should be able to decide what is right for another human being, seeing as every human being has rights. A fetus is not even considered ALIVE until the third trimester, meaning that it is NOT like murder. It's more like getting a tumor removed from your body. I suggest that you two take it from the woman's side - in this argument it is the most important side, seeing as they carry the child - and understand that in pregnancy, it's not just a fetus growing inside the womb, there's morning sicknesses, the back bones get stressed, and in some cases break, causing reprecussions for the rest of the woman's life, the feet get swollen, and there are many other things that happen during pregnancy that aren't very favorable. If abortions were to start being denied because of pro-life won over pro-choice, I'm sure more like the news in my first post would happen, as well as women trying to miscarriage the child. The latter causes harm to both the woman's body, and the fetus. The former causes the loss of life for a live infant, and the loss of future life for the mother.Lack of choice causes panic, which leads to rash thinking, which leads to mistakes and accidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tkill93 Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 Couldnt she use the day after pill? And like getting a tumor removes, tumor cant grow up to be someone amazing. :/ But I think we have a different point of view because of the fact that i am a male and your female. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frunk Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 I'm sorry, the poll is biased in my opinion, I voted 'no', but I do not agree that woman 'have more rights' than their unborn children, I think there could be a timeframe in which an abortion could be 'used', but after this time, they're stuck with their mistake. Why did I call it a mistake, you ask? Well, if you're going to get rid of such a thing, their must be a good reason, like they are unable to support it, etc.. Why couldn't they put it up for adoption, you ask? *Sighs* Forget I even got involved in this conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire_jr Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 lol. frunk.... well... once again.... to get the truth, see the video in my previous post.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quicksilver Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 You're taking a life at the expense of someone else's mistake. That's not human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehodis Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 "Couldnt she use the day after pill? And like getting a tumor removes, tumor cant grow up to be someone amazing. :/" As I said, in some cases the pill doesn't work. Some women's bodies just refuse it. "Why couldn't they put it up for adoption" Loads of the time, when women want to get an abortion, having a child isn't the only thing. Going through the pregnancy and then labour is a huge deal as well. "You're taking a life at the expense of someone else's mistake. That's not human." It's not actually alive until the third trimester, which is when abortion is illegal. Women have enough time in the first six months to get an abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tkill93 Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 "Couldnt she use the day after pill? And like getting a tumor removes' date=' tumor cant grow up to be someone amazing. :/" As I said, in some cases the pill doesn't work. Some women's bodies just refuse it. [/quote'] Okay, sorry i don't know too much about that stuff, well, because im a guy xP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaco Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 lol. frunk.... well... once again.... to get the truth' date=' see the video in my previous post....[/quote'] Yeah, I watched about all of that guy's acts on Youtube. He's pretty awesome all together. I'm not 100% agreeing with his opinion on abortion, but he makes a pretty good (funny as well) point. As I said, in some cases the pill doesn't work. Some women's bodies just refuse it. Wouldn't that be in EXTREME cases. I mean 1. The condom breaks2. The birth control pill doesn't work3. The morning after pill doesn't work Do you have any statistics on how many times that actually happens. Not saying it isn't a valid point, I just wanted to know how often it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Dimercurio Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 I pick no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Static Posted August 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2007 You're taking a life at the expense of someone else's mistake. That's not human. If capitialism is humane' date=' then abortion is a act of grace. I'm sorry, the poll is biased in my opinion, I voted 'no', but I do not agree that woman 'have more rights' than their unborn children, I think there could be a timeframe in which an abortion could be 'used', but after this time, they're stuck with their mistake. Why did I call it a mistake, you ask? Well, if you're going to get rid of such a thing, their must be a good reason, like they are unable to support it, etc.. Why couldn't they put it up for adoption, you ask? *Sighs* Forget I even got involved in this conversation. If you wanted to be forgotten, then you should not have posted. Yes, Ill admit, that my poll is biased. I do agree with the third trimester law, you should have had enough time to have the abortion by then (6 months), but I dont believe that there needs to be a reason to have an abortion, because being required to answer "why?" is an invasion of privacy, and a "no" answer is taking rights from a woman that she clearly deserves. Couldnt she use the day after pill? And like getting a tumor removes, tumor cant grow up to be someone amazing. :/ They also cant grow up to be the next hitler. But I think we have a different point of view because of the fact that i am a male and your female. I am male and am completely for abortion in all cases up to the start of the third trimester. The gender difference has nothing to do with our opinions. It's not actually alive until the third trimester, which is when abortion is illegal. Women have enough time in the first six months to get an abortion. "Its not actually alive" If it cant perceive, then it is NOT alive enough to deserve rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaoserver Posted August 5, 2007 Report Share Posted August 5, 2007 Murder is the act of killing, ending a life. The only question is do you count a fetus as a life, which I think the answer is obviously: Yes, it is a life. If we really need to debate that we can start another topic. So regardless yes it's murder, the question being is it humane. Is ending a life that has yet to be influenced by the world so that the one whom harbors it may continue on without the restraint of responsibility? It's up to you, no one person has set rules dictating what is fair and what is obscene(much as governments may try), what we percieve in our own minds is what we deem as fact. If you think that the fetus who could lead a fufilling life being snuffed out so that his, whore, raped, lazy, or nervous mother can go on without caring for it is logical then very well you have uncovered the answer on your own. Or if you think that the woman has no say and once being impregnated, willingly or otherwise, must stand by her child and let it enter the world you too have found your answer, equally acceptable. That's all that is to be said on this topic, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire_jr Posted August 6, 2007 Report Share Posted August 6, 2007 how come when its us its an abortion but when its a chicken its an omlett? once again... 4 the truth, c my video.... its the best commedian ever..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Static Posted August 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2007 how come when its us its an abortion but when its a chicken its an omlett? once again... 4 the truth' date=' c my video.... its the best commedian ever.....[/quote'] YOUR video??? are you george carlin. It was funny, but comedy doesn't actually help the argument, and neither does you replying to days old posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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