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Black Garden: Discussion

Exiro

By Exiro
in Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG/OCG Card Discussion

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Exiro Newbie

Exiro

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BlackGardenCSOC-JP-SR.jpg

 

When a monster is successfully Normal or Special Summoned, except by the effect of "Black Garden", halve that monster's ATK, and Special Summon 1 "Rose Token" (Plant-Type/DARK/Level 2/ATK 800/DEF 800) in Attack Position to the side of the field of the opponent of the summoning player. You can destroy this card and all face-up Plant-Type monsters on the field to select 1 monster in your Graveyard with the same ATK as the combined ATK of the destroyed monster(s) and Special Summon it.

 

 

 

Shedule:

 

I don't think there are many, but let's see how many people won't see it.

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Kale Newbie

Kale

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how is this card ban worthy? i could say semi (lol) or singled, but not banned. here is my reasoning.

 

you will halve the ATK of all other monsters after this cards activation. it doesnt effect the cards already on the field, so it isnt a huge threat at that moment. Plus, when a person summons a monster you get a token, giving a player an instant level 2 monster that they can synchro with / do whatever with.

summon the level 4 tuner coming out in CSOC (anyone know what that is yet? XD) and then get goyo or something... even though its ATK would be brought down to 1400.

but, you could also use the little creature to attack, or use it with other cards that you need to tribute for.

plus, its last effect is to destroy all plant monsters and get back a plant with exactly the same ATK as the combined ATK of all the destroyed monsters. how likely is that too happen? i mean, you could get back BRD for 4 of these tokens, but other than that, i dont think it is that easy to get back a plant.

 

i would think it could be semied or singled, but not banned. -_-

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maddog15 Newbie

maddog15

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^ im sorry but you are wrong. because 1 you can splash this into any deck, and its effect can special summon protentially any monster from your graveyard. so its like having 4 more skillful monster reborns in your deck, how every because this card requires a degree of skill to use, maybe it should be at 1, but thats the main reason i believe this card is borderline

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Kale Newbie

Kale

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^ im sorry but you are wrong. because 1 you can splash this into any deck' date=' and its effect can special summon protentially any monster from your graveyard. so its like having 4 more skillful monster reborns in your deck, how every because this card requires a degree of skill to use, maybe it should be at 1, but thats the main reason i believe this card is borderline

[/quote']

 

OI kale it doesn't special summon ONLY plants from the grave....I say limit it' date=' it's kinda like a monster reborn that takes some skill to use

[/quote']

 

ah, my brain place the word "plant" in the end effect... weird...

 

anywho, after that is pointed out, then it has more potential then i thought.

 

i still dont think that it will be banned, but it wont be unaffected im sure..

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CrabHelmet Newbie

CrabHelmet

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People who liken this to Monster Reborn don't have a clue why Monster Reborn is banworthy in the first place.

 

The Rebirth Trinity - Monster Reborn, Premature Burial, and Calll of the Haunted - all share a variety of properties that, together, result in them all being banworthy.

 

First, they are all either costless, or, in the case of Premature Burial, have a negligible token cost. Cost can balance revival cards; if Autonomous Action Unit didn't come with a 1500 LP price tag, it might be considered overpowered. Black Garden requires the destruction of other Plants on the field. It is true that Black Garden can destroy the opponent's Rose Tokens to get around this, which brings me to the next point:

 

The Rebirth Trinity require virtually no setup. Topdecked a Monster Reborn? Plop it on the field and instantly get back a monster. The only "setup" needed is that you need to actually have a monster in the Graveyard. We know that can balance revival cards; last time I checked, nobody wants Symbol of Heritage to be banned. Black Garden does not have this property. In order to use it, you need to accumulate Plant-Type monsters on the field whose ATK sums to the appropriate total - a significant amount of setup that removes any topdeck-tasticness that this card might otherwise have.

 

Finally, Monster Reborn, Premature Burial, and Call of the Haunted give you a choice of Special Summoning any monster you choose from your graveyard - the only exception being cards like The Creator or Nomi monsters whose effects specifically prevent this. Let's take a look at the appropriate targets of some of our balanced revival:

  • Birthright - Vanillas.
  • Book of Life - Zombie-Types.
  • Crystal Beacon - "Crystal Beast" theme.
  • Glorious Illusion - "Lightsworn" theme.
  • Graceful Revival - Monsters of no more than Level 2.
  • Limit Reverse - Monsters of no more than 1000 ATK.
  • Re-Fusion - Fusion Monsters.
  • Return of the Six Samurai - "Six Samurai" theme.
  • Rite of Spirit - "Gravekeeper's" theme.

Now, take a look at the Rebirth Trinity. Are they restricted to a specific theme? A specific ATK value? A specific Level? A specific Type? A specific category of monster? Is there any built-in restriction whatsoever?

 

Next, examine Black Garden. Technically, it has the capacity to Special Summon any monster that Monster Reborn can Special Summon. However, at any given time, it can only Special Summon a monster whose ATK happens to be exactly equal to one specific number. Furthermore, as the Rose Tokens all have exactly 800 ATK, the only possible way to Special Summon a monster whose ATK is not an exact multiple of 800 is to combine Black Garden with other Plants of your own, thereby making it themed support. Since the range of available monsters is incredibly limited in the absence of other Plants of your own, statement such as "you can splash this into any deck, and its effect can special summon protentially any monster from your graveyard" do not accurately reflect reality. And if you do use more Plants of your own, you're increasing the cost of Black Garden's effect.

 

Now, let's take a step back and compare Monster Reborn to Black Garden. Monster Reborn is costless; Black Garden is costed. Monster Reborn requires no setup; Black Garden requires setup. Monster Reborn instantly Special Summons any monster you want; Black Garden, even with setup, is either restricted to specific ATK values or is themed support.

 

tl;dr - Saying that this is a more skillful Monster Reborn is like saying that Rare Value is a more skillful Pot of Greed.

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maddog15 Newbie

maddog15

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i know why ban worthy ( too little cost, for what advantage it can give ), its just i would use this card along MR, and true its not as splashable as i was trying to make out but its still the closest to splashable as the one you mentioned that wasn't in the trinity, and this does have the topdecking power for reviving 0atk monsters, however im probably over appreciating the card.

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CrabHelmet Newbie

CrabHelmet

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i know why ban worthy

 

If you knew why it was banworthy' date=' you wouldn't have likened Black Garden to it.

 

( too little cost, for what advantage it can give ),

 

That is only one of a variety of factors that converge to make Monster Reborn banworthy.

 

its just i would use this card along MR' date='

[/quote']

 

If Monster Reborn is legal, then virtually every usable card - there are a few exceptions, like Macro, Oppression, and HOTU - is used alongside Monster Reborn.

 

and true its not as splashable as i was trying to make out

 

Good' date=' at least you admit it.

 

but its still the closest to splashable as the one you mentioned that wasn't in the trinity,

 

What, Symbol of Heritage? Autonomous Action Unit? Are you saying that having splashability comparable to those two is somehow a problem?

 

and this does have the topdecking power for reviving 0atk monsters' date='

[/quote']

 

I'm not sure whether it can do that, but even if it can, who cares? A topdecked Limit Reverse can revive anything from 0 ATK to 1000 ATK, but nobody wants it banned.

 

however im probably over appreciating the card.

 

I'd actually like to know what Exiro is thinking in this topic' date=' since "I don't think there are many, but let's see how many people won't see it" implies that he's figured out some way to abuse this card. I was trying to find some sort of infinite loop with Rose Tokens, but couldn't think of any.

 

although possibly limited/semi'd.

 

WHY?

 

Why do you people feel the need to take every half-decent card that comes along and demand that it be Semi-Limited?

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Exiro Newbie

Exiro

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The last effect is just a little extra, nothing to worry about and not close to MR.

 

This card is ban worthy because it punishes people for... Playing.

The player who holds this card in his hand can decide when to play it, so he can make sure that his opponent has no monsters on the field and then turn a 1500-atk monster into something that's hard to kill.

 

When a player then summons a monster, his opponent gets a beatstick which he can do anything with. Attack, use it for a Tribute Summon, Synchro Summon or other Special Summons. The field will be cluttered with these and it becomes unbeneficial to simply play your cards.

 

Also, it can create stable lockdowns very easily.

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