Magic Cylinder: Discussion

[Guest Star]

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Cylinder

 

I think I had read something on YCM about Solemn Judgment lowering people's Life Points so much that Magic Cylinder could actually be effective.

 

It makes sense, really. With two Solemn Judgment used, your Life Points will be at least 2000.

 

Let's discuss this card.

 

inb4onlygoodinburn

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

It doesn't see play because people see it only as a burn card. Usually it's going to get destroyed before you can use it. But if you do manage to set it off, it wreaks havoc. At my locals, it almost always will go off.

[Benraino]

Ceasefire is better.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

Decent lulzworthy card if you can manage to have it go off. I side it...

 

But then again, I also main Athena so that's not really telling you anything.

[Megaworm]

Magic Cylinder. I don't know of a reason WHY it isn't run besides the fact that everyone plays against rich kids with Tele-DAD and JD and focus on tournament play they are probably too lazy to be involved with anyway and don't need to attack at all, but in a normal based duel it unleashes hell, especially when the opponent is LOLATK or relies on life point costs to sustain play, which mostly every deck does because if you have 0 life points, you lose.

[Flame Dragon]

Magic Cylinder. I don't know of a reason WHY it isn't run besides the fact that everyone plays against rich kids with Tele-DAD and JD and focus on tournament play they are probably too lazy to be involved with anyway and don't need to attack at all' date=' but in a normal based duel it unleashes hell, especially when the opponent is LOLATK or relies on life point costs to sustain play, which mostly every deck does because if you have 0 life points, you lose.

[/quote']

Even in a different meta this wouldn't see much play because it is still easily destroyable so it can be gone before you can get it off. If you can get it off it's great, but those times are few.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Magic Cylinder. I don't know of a reason WHY it isn't run besides the fact that everyone plays against rich kids with Tele-DAD and JD and focus on tournament play they are probably too lazy to be involved with anyway and don't need to attack at all' date=' but in a normal based duel it unleashes hell, especially when the opponent is LOLATK or relies on life point costs to sustain play, which mostly every deck does because if you have 0 life points, you lose.

[/quote']

Even in a different meta this wouldn't see much play because it is likely to be destroyed before you can get it off. If you can get it off it's great, but those times are few.

That is a bold conclusion to jump to.

[Megaworm]

Magic Cylinder. I don't know of a reason WHY it isn't run besides the fact that everyone plays against rich kids with Tele-DAD and JD and focus on tournament play they are probably too lazy to be involved with anyway and don't need to attack at all' date=' but in a normal based duel it unleashes hell, especially when the opponent is LOLATK or relies on life point costs to sustain play, which mostly every deck does because if you have 0 life points, you lose.

[/quote']

Even in a different meta this wouldn't see much play because it is likely to be destroyed before you can get it off. If you can get it off it's great, but those times are few.

 

you are talking about it like there are cards out there that DONT get destroyed and are used in an accelerated elite way that can't be stopped by any means necessary.

[Flame Dragon]

Magic Cylinder. I don't know of a reason WHY it isn't run besides the fact that everyone plays against rich kids with Tele-DAD and JD and focus on tournament play they are probably too lazy to be involved with anyway and don't need to attack at all' date=' but in a normal based duel it unleashes hell, especially when the opponent is LOLATK or relies on life point costs to sustain play, which mostly every deck does because if you have 0 life points, you lose.

[/quote']

Even in a different meta this wouldn't see much play because it is likely to be destroyed before you can get it off. If you can get it off it's great, but those times are few.

That is a bold conclusion to jump to.

True. It really depends on the amount of spell and trap removal at hand.

 

In a good meta their would likely be a decent enough of spell and trap removal so their is a dencent chance of it being destroyed before it can be used.

 

Still, it was a bad choice of words on my part.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Magic Cylinder. I don't know of a reason WHY it isn't run besides the fact that everyone plays against rich kids with Tele-DAD and JD and focus on tournament play they are probably too lazy to be involved with anyway and don't need to attack at all' date=' but in a normal based duel it unleashes hell, especially when the opponent is LOLATK or relies on life point costs to sustain play, which mostly every deck does because if you have 0 life points, you lose.

[/quote']

Even in a different meta this wouldn't see much play because it is likely to be destroyed before you can get it off. If you can get it off it's great, but those times are few.

That is a bold conclusion to jump to.

True. It really depends on the amount of spell and trap removal at hand.

 

In a good meta their would likely be a decent enough of spell and trap removal so their is a dencent chance of it being destroyed before it can be used.

 

Still, it was a bad choice of words on my part.

There should be a fair chance as well for a deck that uses many Spell and Trap Cards to also be able to activate those cards in a 'decent' Meta.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Only good in burn. The only non-chainable trap I'd use would be Mirror Force, this is just a -1 (if you do pull it off, which ain't likely sista.)

 

As for your argument that it's good because some Decks run Solemn Judgment, I don't think too much of it. You might as well run Ceasefire for the same reason outside of burn.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

People seem to not realize that when you talk about burn, you're not looking into card advantage. You're thinking about Life Point advantage. 25% advantage is much better than 1 card advantage if you look at it in those terms.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

People seem to not realize that when you talk about burn' date=' you're not looking into card advantage. You're thinking about Life Point advantage. 25% advantage is much better than 1 card advantage if you look at it in those terms.

[/quote']

 

People seem to not realize that if you have no card advantage you get swarm-killed next turn in today's competitive tournaments and that this isn't a chainable trap, which means you won't pull it off if you're playing a high-level game.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

People seem to not realize that when you talk about burn' date=' you're not looking into card advantage. You're thinking about Life Point advantage. 25% advantage is much better than 1 card advantage if you look at it in those terms.

[/quote']

 

People seem to not realize that if you have no card advantage you get swarm-killed next turn in today's competitive tournaments and that this isn't a chainable trap, which means you won't pull it off if you're playing a high-level game.

That's this format. And this format sucks.

 

And when it's only 1 card, with no cost, then you don't care about advantage for burn. A potential 2000+ any number damage while partially protecting your Life Points is quite large for just 1 card. If they made a chainable trap like that, people would ask for it to be banned. Ceasefire can do some heavy damage, but requires much larger preparation, and cannot do 8000+ damage.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

People seem to not realize that when you talk about burn' date=' you're not looking into card advantage. You're thinking about Life Point advantage. 25% advantage is much better than 1 card advantage if you look at it in those terms.

[/quote']

 

People seem to not realize that if you have no card advantage you get swarm-killed next turn in today's competitive tournaments and that this isn't a chainable trap, which means you won't pull it off if you're playing a high-level game.

That's this format. And this format sucks.

 

And when it's only 1 card, with no cost, then you don't care about advantage for burn. A potential 2000+ any number damage while partially protecting your Life Points is quite large for just 1 card. If they made a chainable trap like that, people would ask for it to be banned. Ceasefire can do some heavy damage, but requires much larger preparation, and cannot do 8000+ damage.

 

If you don't care about advantage and only care about burning, then you might as well run burn. This format might suck but it's reality, and they'd have to ban A LOT of cards for people to start running Magic Cylinders in the top 8s.

 

I wasn't saying Ceasefire was good outside of burn, I was saying that Magic Cylinder isn't good outside of burn, which is the same case as Ceasefire, so if you're running Magic Cylinder at a competitive level you might as well run Ceasefire at a competitive level, which is code for "just make a burn Deck if you're running these."

 

People jack up the ATK of cards to 8000+ anymore, those beatstick days are over, as are the days of Magic Cylinder.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Life Point advantage matters in all games. If you have a -8000 advantage, you have lost (unless if your opponent has increased their Life Points). You OTK using Life Point advantage, not just card advantage. However, this card's inability to activate when needed due to this, and most format's ability to destroy your s/t cards makes this card worthless in any deck other than one that supports its s/t cards. Which just so happens, Burn decks do that. And this card does help Burn quite well, partially because your opponent will be able to have any ATK monster on the field they want without worrying about you destroying them by battle.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Life Point advantage matters in all games. If you have a -8000 advantage' date=' you have lost (unless if your opponent has increased their Life Points). You OTK using Life Point advantage, not just card advantage. However, this card's inability to activate when needed due to this, and most format's ability to destroy your s/t cards makes this card worthless in any deck other than one that supports its s/t cards. Which just so happens, Burn decks do that. And this card does help Burn quite well, partially because your opponent will be able to have any ATK monster on the field they want without worrying about you destroying them by battle.

[/quote']

 

You can't get Life Point advantage without card advantage. Since this is a wasted card more often than not in high level competition, it gives your opponent card advantage, and the card advantage they have is directly related to Life Point advantage because cards are what you use to damage an opponent's Life Points. All cards should played with the intention of damaging your opponent. Cards that don't directly damage your opponent usually help plow the way for cards that will, or they'll just add to the cards you'll use to directly damage your opponent.

 

Take Monster Reborn for example. It doesn't burn your opponent, but it helps you get a card which will help you do as much damage as you can to your opponent.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

One does not win games by acquiring more cards in hand then the opponent. All other win conditions aside, (namely, Exodia, Destiny Board, Final Countdown, Venominaga, Last Turn and Mill Decks) the way most duels end is when one player hits zero life points before the other guy.

 

It's not wise to dismiss lifepoints as if they don't matter. And in a format where 3x Solemn is the norm, A sharp 2000 LP damage may be just the kind of finisher you need.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

I'm not saying Life Points don't matter, I'm saying damage to Life Points is maximized if you've got more cards to work with.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Monsters are damage inflicters >>

[CrabHelmet]

In this topic, Dark Edo Phoenix shows that he doesn't understand what happens in Tag Duels.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

slayer: Monsters are the direct inflicters, but if you ran all monsters, you wouldn't inflict nearly as much. Spells are what help you inflict MOAR.

 

Crab: I'll admit to that, I do not by any means care about Tag Duels.

[CrabHelmet]

Crab: I'll admit to that' date=' I do not by any means care about Tag Duels.

[/quote']

 

That is a great pity, for it would give you greater insight into this situation.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

slayer: Monsters are the direct inflicters' date=' but if you ran all monsters, you wouldn't inflict nearly as much. Spells are what help you inflict MOAR.

[/quote']

To my knowledge, only idiots play a deck with all monsters. So that pretty much makes what you're saying pointless. I can understand why a deck with all monsters, somehow running Magic Cylinder at the same time, would find no use for it. But damage is damage, whether it comes from a monster or not.

 

Cards like Ookazi are unusable for a non-burn deck because they don't inflict significant damage at all, and you would be better off with something that assists your monsters. However, Cylinder can do good damage and support you at the same time.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Effects don't have to say "inflict x damage to your opponent" to inflict damage in a long run. They help inflict damage indirectly with their effects. Like how Brain Control gets you an opponent's monster and you can attack them with it, inflicting damage. I don't think you see my point.