Skill

[CrabHelmet]

Construct a working definition of skill.

 

Apply this definition to various existing decks to conclude how much skill they require.

 

Apply this definition to Konami's banlist/format in general.

 

Determine how to improve the level of skill in the game.

 

Go.

[Phantom Roxas]

skill (noun): one's knowledge of a game, their level of ability to construct different decktypes, the latter usually being based on said person's knowledge of the game. "Skill" can also refer to how well someone can formulate different uses of a card on their own. It can also refer to how one can determine the limitations of some card (e.g.: Konami's banlist)

[armageddon08]

Crab, you sound like my teacher when he says evaluate this and define that.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

I think "Skill" is difficult to evaluate. I suppose that it is measured, in situations in which greater amounts of thought would yield greater results, one's ability to cope with such in-game situations is how the players skill is measured. If a situation requires more thought and logic, it requires greater game skill.

[CrabHelmet]

skill (noun): one's knowledge of a game' date=' their level of ability to construct different decktypes, the latter usually being based on said person's knowledge of the game. "Skill" can also refer to how well someone can formulate different uses of a card on their own. It can also refer to how one can determine the limitations of some card (e.g.: Konami's banlist)

[/quote']

 

Does every aspect of skill fall under this definition? If so, how can we apply this definition? If not, what is missing? How does the practice of netdecking impact this definition of skill?

 

Crab' date=' you sound like my teacher when he says evaluate this and define that.

[/quote']

 

That's because I am your teacher. This topic is here for you to learn.

 

Now, why don't you actually contribute something here, student? You won't learn through useless comments like that.

 

I think "Skill" is difficult to evaluate.

 

Come now. If it was easy to evaluate' date=' would I post a topic asking you to do so? Actually, I would. YCM would still need it.

 

I suppose that it is measured' date=' in situations in which greater amounts of thought would yield greater results, one's ability to cope with such in-game situations is how the players skill is measured. If a situation requires more thought and logic, it requires greater game skill.

[/quote']

 

How do different situations require different levels of thought? How can one determine which situations require more thought?

[Phantom Roxas]

skill (noun): one's knowledge of a game' date=' and their level of ability to construct different decktypes, the latter usually being based on said person's knowledge of the game. "Skill" can also refer to how well someone can formulate different uses of a card on their own. It can also refer to how one can determine the limitations of some cards (e.g.: Konami's banlist)

[/quote']

 

Does every aspect of skill fall under this definition? If so, how can we apply this definition? If not, what is missing? How does the practice of netdecking impact this definition of skill?

 

Netdecking involves relatively little skill, since players are simply copying another Deck. In this, my second definition applies perfectly.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

You can tell that a situation requires thought if people have to apply logic to what their opponent might have in store and how various options would counteract that. Here's an example:

 

Situation 1: First turn passes. Second player summons Kamori Dragon and attacks into Gorz without thinking. Low skill, the player did not use any thought and got bad results.

 

Situation 2: First turn passes. Second player thinks and recognizes that the other player probably has Gorz, and plays conservatively as a result, waiting until he has a method to destroy Gorz before he attacks into a clear field. This situation is mid-skill because it got good results from basic thought.

[Blade Knight]

With Tele-DAD deck lists all over the Internet. Money > Skill

[「tea.leaf」]

I need this, so I'm listening in.

[Abstract [Atrocity]]

skill in yugioh is just anticipating what your opponent has, what you need to play, and what to put into a deck.

[CrabHelmet]

skill (noun): one's knowledge of a game' date=' and their level of ability to construct different decktypes, the latter usually being based on said person's knowledge of the game. "Skill" can also refer to how well someone can formulate different uses of a card on their own. It can also refer to how one can determine the limitations of some cards (e.g.: Konami's banlist)

[/quote']

 

Does every aspect of skill fall under this definition? If so, how can we apply this definition? If not, what is missing? How does the practice of netdecking impact this definition of skill?

 

Netdecking involves relatively little skill, since players are simply copying another Deck. In this, my second definition applies perfectly.

 

I activate Reasoning. Is your response related to your skill?

 

You can tell that a situation requires thought if people have to apply logic to what their opponent might have in store and how various options would counteract that. Here's an example:

 

Situation 1: First turn passes. Second player summons Kamori Dragon and attacks into Gorz without thinking. Low skill' date=' the player did not use any thought and got bad results.

 

Situation 2: First turn passes. Second player thinks and recognizes that the other player probably has Gorz, and plays conservatively as a result, waiting until he has a method to destroy Gorz before he attacks into a clear field. This situation is mid-skill because it got good results from basic thought.

[/quote']

 

Is passing when the opponent's field is open really less skilled than waiting to draw your one copy on Mind Crush? What does this situation tell us?

 

With Tele-DAD deck lists all over the Internet. Money > Skill

 

For the purposes of this topic' date=' money as a factor is to be ignored. Everyone is assumed to have limitless access to all cards in the card pool.

 

' pid='1502847' dateline='1230063606']

skill in yugioh is just anticipating what your opponent has, what you need to play, and what to put into a deck.

 

Is it? If so, what does this tell us? If not, what else is skill? Are all factors included in hat you describe truly parts of skill?

[JesusofChaos™]

To understand the term 'skill' in its wholeness we must first look at an appropriate definition for it.

Proficiency' date=' facility, or dexterity that is acquired or developed through training or experience.

[/quote']

 

Skill in its wholeness is not your ability to win games or to play a certain hand correctly. Skill is how much you learn from your losses or your wins and how you develop as a player. A player who netdecks a tele-DAD deck from metagame and plays with it has no skill due to the fact he has not gone through the process of learning the ways of playing. A player who starts as a noob and works his way up through the game has more skill. He has dedicated his time to learn various skills such as deck building and probability.

 

Skill cannot be bought it is learnt.

[「tea.leaf」]

To understand the term 'skill' in its wholeness we must first look at an appropriate definition for it.

Proficiency' date=' facility, or dexterity that is acquired or developed through training or experience.

[/quote']

 

Skill in its wholeness is not your ability to win games or to play a certain hand correctly. Skill is how much you learn from your losses or your wins and how you develop as a player. A player who netdecks a tele-DAD deck from metagame and plays with it has no skill due to the fact he has not gone through the process of learning the ways of playing. A player who starts as a noob and works his way up through the game has more skill. He has dedicated his time to learn various skills such as deck building and probability.

 

Skill cannot be bought it is learnt.

 

Am I skilled, then, so to speak?

[Phantom Roxas]

skill (noun): one's knowledge of a game' date=' and their level of ability to construct different decktypes, the latter usually being based on said person's knowledge of the game. "Skill" can also refer to how well someone can formulate different uses of a card on their own. It can also refer to how one can determine the limitations of some cards (e.g.: Konami's banlist)

[/quote']

 

Does every aspect of skill fall under this definition? If so, how can we apply this definition? If not, what is missing? How does the practice of netdecking impact this definition of skill?

 

Netdecking involves relatively little skill, since players are simply copying another Deck. In this, my second definition applies perfectly.

 

I activate Reasoning. Is your response related to your skill?

 

In all honesty, yes. I used to netdeck, except I tried to copy the Decks shown in the Anime, the most recent example being Jaden. Of course, I have long since realized that just because it was shown to win, it will not help in real life, so I try to apply my own fixes to it, and there is a great difference now. Of course, there are still many Jaden cards in the Deck, but only because I don't want that money to go to waste. I'm trying to turn it into a Warrior Synchro Deck.

[JesusofChaos™]

To understand the term 'skill' in its wholeness we must first look at an appropriate definition for it.

Proficiency' date=' facility, or dexterity that is acquired or developed through training or experience.

[/quote']

 

Skill in its wholeness is not your ability to win games or to play a certain hand correctly. Skill is how much you learn from your losses or your wins and how you develop as a player. A player who netdecks a tele-DAD deck from metagame and plays with it has no skill due to the fact he has not gone through the process of learning the ways of playing. A player who starts as a noob and works his way up through the game has more skill. He has dedicated his time to learn various skills such as deck building and probability.

 

Skill cannot be bought it is learnt.

 

Am I skilled, then, so to speak?

 

Depends on how much you have progressed, there is no set determined level at which you say "I am skilled" everyone has different levels

[Jesus]

To answer Crab's question in the Roxas' quote, No. It's not.

 

The decleration of the Level of a monster when a player activates reasoning is based on current knowledge of the field, your opponent, what deck he's running, and what you can do to stop whatever could possibly come out.

[Abstract [Atrocity]]

' pid='1502847' dateline='1230063606']

skill in yugioh is just anticipating what your opponent has' date=' what you need to play, and what to put into a deck.

[/quote']

 

Is it? If so, what does this tell us? If not, what else is skill? Are all factors included in hat you describe truly parts of skill?

I don't think there's any other aspects of yugioh depend on skill, besides maybe buying packs and using techniques like scaling to get good cards >>

 

most of yugioh is luck. drawing cards, rolling dice, ect

but the rest is skill.

your opponent has 1 f/d S/T and I have raiza and scout plane, he's got 4000 LP, should I try summoning the survivor in my hand, knowing my opponent hasn't activated a torrential tribute this duel?

 

stuff like that..

[Guest Chaos Pudding]

Skill is whatever is left after Luck is taken out of the equation. However, I don't really have a definite definition of Luck at the moment, so meh.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

I'd say it's knowing what to do while you're actually in the game, because anyone can make a DAD deck.

[「tea.leaf」]

Skill, when constructing, is making optimal decisions in card choice given your deck theme.

 

Skill, when siding, is making optimal decisions in card choice to counter your opponent.

 

Skill, when dueling, is making optimal decisions given your hand and field each turn.

 

Skill, thus in any situation, is carefully analyzing your situation and making sound judgment based on said analysis.

 

How far off am I?

 

EDIT: It is implied here that skill is required to net-deck properly; one can build the same deck and run it wrong.

[tonisanoob]

joc definition sounds good, also it does take skill to play teledad asa matter fo fact :P

[GenzoTheHarpist]

On the Reasoning issue, yeah there is skill. You could guess = no skill, or you could analyze your opponent's field and decktype to make an informed decision = mid to high skill.

[CrabHelmet]

Skill is whatever is left after Luck is taken out of the equation. However' date=' I don't really have a definite definition of Luck at the moment, so meh.

[/quote']

 

Why not construct a definition of Luck?

 

I'd say it's knowing what to do while you're actually in the game' date=' because anyone can make a DAD deck.

[/quote']

 

In what ways does skill determine what you do during a duel? Is skill at all relevant to deckbuilding? Are DAD decks a unique case that results from some other factor that reduces the level of skill involved in them, or is supposed the lack of skill involved in building them common to all decks? Do Phantom Beasts take skill to build?

 

Skill' date=' when constructing, is making optimal decisions in card choice given your deck theme.

[/quote']

 

Is this the only way in which skill affects deckbuilding? Do any other factors need to be considered?

 

Skill' date=' when siding, is making optimal decisions in card choice to counter your opponent.

[/quote']

 

Is this an accurate summary of skill in this instance?

 

Skill' date=' when dueling, is making optimal decisions given your hand and field each turn.

[/quote']

 

Are these the only factors that need to be taken into account? What determines which moves are "optimal"?

 

Skill' date=' thus in any situation, is carefully analyzing your situation and making sound judgment based on said analysis.

[/quote']

 

Does this accurately sum up all aspects of skill while excluding aspects unrelated to skill? If so, how does this definition relate to the game today?

 

How far off am I?

 

That's a question.

 

EDIT: It is implied here that skill is required to net-deck properly; one can build the same deck and run it wrong.

 

Does the extent to which this is true vary from deck to deck? If so' date=' how, and what does this mean? If not, why not, and what does that mean?

 

joc definition sounds good,

 

Do you really believe that you will learn the most simply by pointing to someone else and saying "what they said" instead of thinking independently?

 

also it does take skill to play teledad asa matter fo fact :P

 

Can you apply a definition of skill to demonstrate this?

 

On the Reasoning issue' date=' yeah there is skill. You could guess = no skill, or you could analyze your opponent's field and decktype to make an informed decision = mid to high skill.

[/quote']

 

Are there any other factors involved other than your analysis of the opponent's field and decktype? Does the luck factor involved with what card comes up from Reasoning conflict with the skill that you claim is present?

[GenzoTheHarpist]

Like the application of the Socratic Method here Crab, you only posted one sentence that wasn't a question, and it was purely to point out that people shouldn't be asking questions.

 

On the Reasoning issue, the skill involved is merely in the act of determining what to guess. After that, it is a matter of chance. But the more thought put into it, the greater the chance of a good result is, so the response of a play of reasoning fits my def. of skill.

[Guest Chaos Pudding]

While I search for my definition of Luck, the topic title just reminded me of an awesome video (WARNING! SAID VIDEO CONTAINS LOTS OF TENGEN-TOPPA GURREN LAGANN, AND THEREFOR MAY PUT HAIR ON YOUR CHEST THROUGH IT'S UNBRIDLED MANLINESS!): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwn84ttf7OM