ITT: SephirothKirby finally makes a banlist.

[SephirothKirby]

I'm not anything special at this game, but as much as I argue about the banlist, eventually someone is going to ask me to put my money where my mouth is.

 

I am currently testing for this list.

 

If you have something to say about a card's placement, don't just say "X should/shouldn't be banned." Provide reasoning, unless you are asking me why I personally put it there.

 

===

I. Forbidden Cards

You cannot use these cards in your Deck, Extra Deck or Side Deck.

 

ACCUMULATED FORTUNE

ALL OUT ATTACKS

ARCANA FORCE 0 - THE FOOL

ARCANA FORCE XXI - THE WORLD

ARMED SAMURAI - BEN-KEI

BATTLE MANIA

BLACK LUSTER SOLDIER - ENVOY OF THE BEGINNING

BLACK WHIRLWIND

BRAIN CONTROL

BREAKER THE MAGICAL WARRIOR

BRIONAC, DRAGON OF THE ICE BOUNDARY

BUTTERFLY DAGGER - ELMA

CALL OF THE HAUNTED

CARD OF SAFE RETURN

CEASEFIRE

CHANGE OF HEART

CHAOS EMPEROR DRAGON - ENVOY OF THE END

CHAOS SORCERER

CHIMERATECH FORTRESS DRAGON

CHIMERATECH OVERDRAGON

CONFISCATION

CRUSH CARD VIRUS

CYBER DRAGON

CYBER END DRAGON

CYBER JAR

CYBER-STEIN

CYBER TWIN DRAGON

DARK ARMED DRAGON

DARK DIVE BOMBER

DARK HOLE

DARKLORD ZERATO

DARK MAGICIAN OF CHAOS

DARK SCORPION - CHICK THE YELLOW

DECK DEVASTATION VIRUS

DELINQUENT DUO

DEMISE, KING OF ARMAGEDDON

DESTINY HERO - DISK COMMANDER

DIMENSION FUSION

ERADICATOR EPIDEMIC VIRUS

EVIL HERO DARK GAIA

EXCHANGE OF THE SPIRIT

EXODIA THE FORBIDDEN ONE

FIBER JAR

GLADIATOR BEAST GYZARUS

GORZ, EMISSARY DARKNESS

GRACEFUL CHARITY

HARPIE'S FEATHER DUSTER

HEAVY STORM

IMPERIAL IRON WALL

IMPERIAL ORDER

INFERNO TEMPEST

JUDGEMENT DRAGON

LAST TURN

LAST WILL

LIFE EQUALIZER

LIMITER REMOVAL

MAGICAL SCIENTIST

MACHINE DUPLICATION

MAGICAL EXPLOSION

MARSHMALLON

MEGAMORPH

MIRAGE OF NIGHTMARE

MONSTER REBORN

MORPHING JAR

NOBLEMAN OF CROSSOUT

PAINFUL CHOICE

PHANTOM OF CHAOS

POT OF GREED

PREMATURE BURIAL

RAIGEKI

RETURN FROM THE DIFFERENT DIMENSION

REVERSAL QUIZ

RING OF DESTRUCTION

SANGAN

SELF-DESTRUCT BUTTON

SINISTER SERPENT

SNATCH STEAL

SIXTH SENSE

SKY SCOURGE NORLERAS

SNIPE HUNTER

SPIRIT REAPER

SUPERALLOY BEAST RAPTINUS

THE FORCEFUL SENTRY

THOUSAND-EYES RESTRICT

TIME SEAL

TRAP DUSTSHOOT

TREEBORN FROG

TRIBE-INFECTING VIRUS

TSUKUYOMI

ULTIMATE OFFERING

UNITED WE STAND

VICTORY DRAGON

WITCH OF THE BLACK FOREST

X-SABER AIRBELLUM

YATA-GARASU

 

NEW! - Accumulated Fortune, All Out Attacks, Arcana Force 0 - The Fool, Arcana Force XXI - The World, Armed Samurai - Ben-Kei, Battle Mania, Brain Control, Breaker the Magical Warrior, Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Boundary, Card of Safe Return, Ceasefire, Chimeratech Fortress Dragon, Chimeratech Overdragon, Crush Card Virus, Cyber Dragon, Cyber End Dragon, Cyber Twin Dragon, Dark Armed Dragon, Dark Dive Bomber, Darklord Zerato, Dark Scorpion - Chick the Yellow, Demise, King of Armageddon, Evil Hero Dark Gaia, Exodia the Forbidden One, Gladiator Beast Gyzarus, Gorz The Emissary of Darkness, Heavy Storm, Imperial Iron Wall, Inferno Tempest, Judgment Dragon, Life Equalizer, Limiter Removal, Machine Duplication, Magical Explosion, Marshmallon, Megamorph, Monster Reborn, Morphing Jar, Nobleman of Crossout, Phantom of Chaos, Return from the Different Dimension, Reversal Quiz, Sangan, Self-Destruct Button, Sky Scourge Norleras, Snipe Hunter, Spirit Reaper, Superalloy Beast Raptinus, Trap Dustshoot, Treeborn Frog, Ultimate Offering, United We Stand, X-Saber Airbellum

 

II. Limited Cards

You can ONLY use one of the following cards in the Deck, Extra Deck & Side Deck combined.

 

ELEMENTAL HERO STRATOS

GIANT TRUNADE

MIRROR FORCE

NIGHT ASSAILANT

TORRENTIAL TRIBUTE

 

III. Semi-Limited Cards

You can ONLY use two of the following cards in the Deck, Extra Deck & Side Deck combined.

 

DESTINY HERO - MALICIOUS

CHAIN STRIKE

 

NEW! - Destiny Hero - Malicious, Chain Strike

 

NO LONGER LIMITED - D.D. Warrior Lady, Advanced Ritual Art, Book of Moon, Card Destruction, Card Trooper, Cathedral of Nobles, Dandylion, Fissure, Foolish Burial, Future Fusion, Gravity Bind, Green Baboon, Defender of the Forest, Left Arm of the Forbidden One, Left Leg of the Forbidden One, Level Limit - Area B, Magical Stone Excavation, Magic Cylinder, Magician of Faith, Makyura the Destructor, Manticore of Darkness, Mask of Darkness, Metamorphosis, Mind Crush, Monster Gate, Mystical Space Typhoon, Necroface, Neo-Spacian Grand Mole, Ojama Trio, Overload Fusion, Raiza the Storm Monarch, Reasoning, Rescue Cat, Right Arm of the Forbidden One, Right Leg of the Forbidden One, Scapegoat, Smashing Ground, Summon Priest, Swords of Revealing Light, The Transmigration Prophecy, Twin-Headed Behemoth, Wall of Revealing Light

 

===

 

Debating - Plaguespreader Zombie, Tsukuyomi, Wave-Motion Cannon

[Guest Chaos Pudding]

Gladiator Beast Gyzarus

Golden Sarcophagus

Inferno Tempest

Destiny Hero - Malicious

Mirror Force

Exodia the Forbidden One

Morphing Jar

 

Justify those.

[Jay.P.]

Boneheimer?!? A joke I assume?

[Guest PikaPerson01]

Exodia the Forbidden One

 

He banned a random limb, probably as a "funny" joke, same reasoning as Bonheimer I surmise.

[Guest Chaos Pudding]

Exodia the Forbidden One

 

He banned a random limb' date=' probably as a "funny" joke, same reasoning as Bonheimer I surmise.

[/quote']

 

Didn't see that.

 

In that case, justify banning a limb over banning the head.

[SephirothKirby]

Gladiator Beast Gyzarus

Golden Sarcophagus

Inferno Tempest

Destiny Hero - Malicious

Mirror Force

Exodia the Forbidden One

Morphing Jar

 

Justify those.

 

Gladiator Beast Gyzarus

Far too easy to get out' date=' nuke 2, then bring out more GBs to gain advantage, probably ending with Heraklinos. Without Gyzarus, GBs actually have to work for their effects, and Heraklinos becomes a privilege, not a standard 3,000 ATK wall.

 

[b']Golden Sarcophagus[/b]

This is a slower format. 2 Turns aren't unreasonable. It allows you to gain any card in your deck, whether it was meant to be searchable or not. If it stayed on the field, then that's fine, but because it's unstoppable once you activated it, and it has no restrictions on what it searches, it's too varied.

 

Inferno Tempest

It's only use is for Necroface OTKs. It's either this card or Necroface. And while Necroface has some uses, this card is just absurd, removing all monsters in the deck and graveyard.

 

Destiny Hero - Malicious

Far too easy to Synchro. Some people think he could be Semi-Limited, but I find his effect unacceptable at any number other than 1.

 

Mirror Force

Ehh, I'm going with Crab's logic here. At 1, it prevents over extension, and more skillful/conservative playing. It's the same as Heavy Storm, except by banning Heavy Storm I can allow Magician of Faith at 3.

 

Exodia the Forbidden One

Well, what use does Exodia have if his Left Leg is banned? Unless you're asking why I banned the "Exodia Decktype", in which it is far too fast under this list.

 

EDIT: Because there isn't a current card that allows you to change the name of a card in your hand, so it doesn't matter what piece I ban. What makes Exodia more banworthy than the leg?

 

Morphing Jar

Not ready to clarify on this one. Pretty confident about banning it, but I plan on testing it soon.

[iAmNateXero]

Destiny Hero - Malicious

Far too easy to Synchro. Some people think he could be Semi-Limited, but I find his effect unacceptable at any number other than 1.

 

Translation: Malicious has a good effect, but people get over on me with it. I dont need it, so lets put it at 1 so it will be a normal monster. Besides... people would laugh if I ban it.

[Guest Chaos Pudding]

Gladiator Beast Gyzarus

Far too easy to get out' date=' nuke 2, then bring out more GBs to gain advantage, probably ending with Heraklinos. Without Gyzarus, GBs actually have to work for their effects, and Heraklinos becomes a privilege, not a standard 3,000 ATK wall.

[/quote']

 

And how do you know that Glads will be top tier, or even playable, in this format? And, even if they were, so what?

 

Golden Sarcophagus

This is a slower format. 2 Turns aren't unreasonable. It allows you to gain any card in your deck, whether it was meant to be searchable or not. If it stayed on the field, then that's fine, but because it's unstoppable once you activated it, and it has no restrictions on what it searches, it's too varied.

 

So? Why is it that tutoring anything at the cost of waiting 2 turns is banworthy?

 

Inferno Tempest

It's only use is for Necroface OTKs. It's either this card or Necroface. And while Necroface has some uses, this card is just absurd, removing all monsters in the deck and graveyard.

 

Why not ban Grinder Golem instead of this card? Grinder Golem can fuel multiple OTKs, too.

 

Destiny Hero - Malicious

Far too easy to Synchro. Some people think he could be Semi-Limited, but I find his effect unacceptable at any number other than 1.

 

In that case, I guess you better ban Airbellum, or Rescue Cat, or Summon Priest, or any other way of bringing out Synchros, for that matter.

 

Mirror Force

Ehh, I'm going with Crab's logic here. At 1, it prevents over extension, and more skillful/conservative playing. It's the same as Heavy Storm, except by banning Heavy Storm I can allow Magician of Faith at 3.

 

Prove it.

 

Exodia the Forbidden One

Well, what use does Exodia have if his Left Leg is banned? Unless you're asking why I banned the "Exodia Decktype", in which it is far too fast under this list.

 

EDIT: Because there isn't a current card that allows you to change the name of a card in your hand, so it doesn't matter what piece I ban. What makes Exodia more banworthy than the leg?

 

Because banning a Level 1 Normal Spellcaster is asinine?

 

Morphing Jar

Not ready to clarify on this one. Pretty confident about banning it, but I plan on testing it soon.

 

What exactly do you plan on learning with testing?

[SephirothKirby]

Wow, I screwed up this quote badly. Gimme a minute.

---

Gladiator Beast Gyzarus

Far too easy to get out' date=' nuke 2, then bring out more GBs to gain advantage, probably ending with Heraklinos. Without Gyzarus, GBs actually have to work for their effects, and Heraklinos becomes a privilege, not a standard 3,000 ATK wall.

[/quote']

 

And how do you know that Glads will be top tier, or even playable, in this format? And, even if they were, so what?

 

I don't know - That's the point of testing. From my perception, Gyzarus is banworthy. You have to give me time to test these things :/

 

 

Golden Sarcophagus

This is a slower format. 2 Turns aren't unreasonable. It allows you to gain any card in your deck, whether it was meant to be searchable or not. If it stayed on the field, then that's fine, but because it's unstoppable once you activated it, and it has no restrictions on what it searches, it's too varied.

 

So? Why is it that tutoring anything at the cost of waiting 2 turns is banworthy?

Because, in this format, duels last longer than 3.

 

 

Inferno Tempest

It's only use is for Necroface OTKs. It's either this card or Necroface. And while Necroface has some uses, this card is just absurd, removing all monsters in the deck and graveyard.

 

Why not ban Grinder Golem instead of this card? Grinder Golem can fuel multiple OTKs, too.

 

Grinder Golem has more uses than Inferno Tempest. Inferno Tempest is outright absurd. If Grinder Golem still has an OTK that I missed, please tell me so.

 

Destiny Hero - Malicious

Far too easy to Synchro. Some people think he could be Semi-Limited, but I find his effect unacceptable at any number other than 1.

 

In that case, I guess you better ban Airbellum, or Rescue Cat, or Summon Priest, or any other way of bringing out Synchros, for that matter.

 

I thought it was obvious that this was a TCG banlist. Summon Priest is limit worthy. Airbellum is banworthy.

 

 

Mirror Force

Ehh, I'm going with Crab's logic here. At 1, it prevents over extension, and more skillful/conservative playing. It's the same as Heavy Storm, except by banning Heavy Storm I can allow Magician of Faith at 3.

 

Prove it.

Ok, lemme test it.

 

 

Exodia the Forbidden One

Well, what use does Exodia have if his Left Leg is banned? Unless you're asking why I banned the "Exodia Decktype", in which it is far too fast under this list.

 

EDIT: Because there isn't a current card that allows you to change the name of a card in your hand, so it doesn't matter what piece I ban. What makes Exodia more banworthy than the leg?

 

Because banning a Level 1 Normal Spellcaster is asinine?

 

Fine, I'll change it.

 

Morphing Jar

Not ready to clarify on this one. Pretty confident about banning it, but I plan on testing it soon.

 

What exactly do you plan on learning with testing?

 

Alright, I'll admit to being overly cautious here.

 

===

 

Translation: Malicious has a good effect, but people get over on me with it. I dont need it, so lets put it at 1 so it will be a normal monster. Besides... people would laugh if I ban it.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to communicate here.

[CrabHelmet]

Mirror Force is much less necessary once Torrential is at 3. Without Storm, there is no such thing as s/t overextension.

 

Also, why a TCG-exclusive list?

[iAmNateXero]

I'm not sure what you're trying to communicate here.

 

When I read the reason you created for Limiting Malicious, Thats what I think spawned in your head.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

Ceasefire can go to 1. At 3 it's too powerful. By powerful, I mean OTK powerful. At 2 it can still do this although nowhere near as consistently. At 1, it cannot do this.

[SephirothKirby]

Mirror Force is much less necessary once Torrential is at 3. Without Storm' date=' there is no such thing as s/t overextension.

 

Also, why a TCG-exclusive list?

[/quote']

 

I dunno. I don't study the OCG much, unless a certain card is godly. What all deserves to be banned in the OCG? Airbellum, limit Summon Priest, ban Dark Dive Bomber?

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to communicate here.

 

When I read the reason you created for Limiting Malicious' date=' Thats what I think spawned in your head.

[/quote']

 

No, I mean actually clarify your statement, I don't understand what it means.

[CrabHelmet]

Mirror Force is much less necessary once Torrential is at 3. Without Storm' date=' there is no such thing as s/t overextension.

 

Also, why a TCG-exclusive list?

[/quote']

 

I dunno. I don't study the OCG much, unless a certain card is godly. What all deserves to be banned in the OCG? Airbellum, limit Summon Priest, ban Dark Dive Bomber?

 

Eh, I just noticed that Cathedral of Nobles wasn't anywhere on your list, and then I saw the entire 1-card OTK sequence was at 3.

 

Kill Airbellum. Do what you like with Dark Dive Bomber. Summon Priest to 3.

[Toffee.]

This list demands an awesome Token deck.

 

x3 Scapegoat, Dandylion, and Magician of Faith ftw

 

And why not keep Metamorph banned? I mean you cant really use it now that you unlimited it o_o

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

This list demands an awesome Token deck.

 

x3 Scapegoat' date=' Dandylion, and Magician of Faith ftw

 

And why not keep Metamorph banned? I mean you cant really use it now that you unlimited it o_o

[/quote']

 

With Cyber Twin Dragon and Cyber End Dragon banned, why not let Metamorphosis be at 3?

 

And yes, Dandylion, Scapegoat and Magician of Faith all deserve to be at 3.

[Toffee.]

With Cyber Twin Dragon and Cyber End Dragon banned' date=' why not let Metamorphosis be at 3[/quote']

No, I mean what would you use it on?

 

And yes' date=' Dandylion, Scapegoat ad Magician of Faith all deserve to be at 3.[/quote']

Its because they are awesome :3

[CrabHelmet]

With Cyber Twin Dragon and Cyber End Dragon banned' date=' why not let Metamorphosis be at 3[/quote']

No, I mean what would you use it on?

 

Dragoon D-END, Gatling Dragon, Last Warrior, Reaper, Dark Balter, Ryu Senshi... whatever you want to use it on, really. It's not like the Cydra Fusions are the only Fusion Monsters in the game.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

With Cyber Twin Dragon and Cyber End Dragon banned' date=' why not let Metamorphosis be at 3[/quote']

No, I mean what would you use it on?

 

Since when was a card being useless grounds for banning it? Larvae Moth is useless, should we ban that?

 

With Cyber Twin Dragon and Cyber End Dragon banned' date=' why not let Metamorphosis be at 3[/quote']

No, I mean what would you use it on?

 

Dragoon D-END, Gatling Dragon, Last Warrior, Reaper, Dark Balter, Ryu Senshi... whatever you want to use it on, really. It's not like the Cydra Fusions are the only Fusion Monsters in the game.

 

True, but none of those are banworthy. Are they?

[Toffee.]

With Cyber Twin Dragon and Cyber End Dragon banned' date=' why not let Metamorphosis be at 3[/quote']

No, I mean what would you use it on?

 

Dragoon D-END, Gatling Dragon, Last Warrior, Reaper, Dark Balter, Ryu Senshi... whatever you want to use it on, really. It's not like the Cydra Fusions are the only Fusion Monsters in the game.

 

Ehh... Forget my last post then.

 

Just, I like to use random lvl10s(that are playable) and use Metamorph on them.

Still.. We could always make Last Warrior-Locks ;)

[Curium]

 

 

 

Golden Sarcophagus

This is a slower format. 2 Turns aren't unreasonable. It allows you to gain any card in your deck' date=' whether it was meant to be searchable or not. If it stayed on the field, then that's fine, but because it's unstoppable once you activated it, and it has no restrictions on what it searches, it's too varied.

[/quote']

 

So? Why is it that tutoring anything at the cost of waiting 2 turns is banworthy?

 

Because, in this format, duels last longer than 3.

 

 

In fact, why is tutoring anything banworthy?

What does a "meant to be searchable" card mean?

A card becomes searchable when a tutor card gets released, it's like RotA made every warrior searchable, there isn't even a 2 turn wait. Before RotA is out, warriors were "meant to be unsearchable", but now RotA made them "meant to be searchable", so why is RotA any different from Gold Sarcophagus?

 

RotA is also unstopabble after resolving, and it does the job immediately.

While there's restriction on RotA, warriors have one of the most varied effects in the game. It even the reason a Warrior Toolbox deck can work. It's pretty much "too varied".

 

This card helps under-supported themes with lack of draw/search power some consistency. While decks already with draw/search power won't even bother this "slow" card.

 

So, what "meant to be unsearchable card" is that much of a problem that it cannot be directly added from deck to hand 2 turns later?

The obvious choices like DAD are gone on your list and most easy-to-pull-off OTK is gone also.

[SephirothKirby]

^ Welp, you got me there, until I find reason to say otherwise. Good job.

 

Ceasefire can go to 1. At 3 it's too powerful. By powerful' date=' I mean OTK powerful. At 2 it can still do this although nowhere near as consistently. At 1, it cannot do this.

[/quote']

 

Well, it really seems more 3 or 0. It doesn't work with itself so much so that it's damaging, but the card itself is damaging. Should 1 card that has a maximum damage (although it is unlikely to deal it) of 5,000 really acceptable at all? Not to mention it kills flip effects. It works at 1, but I kinda prefer this whole "3 or 0" format. However, I do feel more confident with it at 0 than 3. So that's going to be my current decision.

 

===

 

As for Gyzarus, I am still testing with different decks, to make sure I'm not just doing a poor job of building decks under an unfamiliar banlist.

 

So far, I still think it's entirely necessary to ban him.

 

Also also, is it acceptable to ban cards based on how boring it makes the format...'Cause I know it's not righteous from a technical standpoint, but god damn if 3 Torrential isn't boring. It doesn't prevent field advantage, it prevents a field.

[SephirothKirby]

Updated for OCG.

[Dad]

Marshmallon? >_> Wtf?

[CrabHelmet]

Marshmallon? >_> Wtf?

 

The treatment of Stall largely depends on the personal judgment of the list creator.

 

Forcing removal is not fundamentally bad for the game. To say that it is' date=' and to use this argument to justify banning Marsh/Fool, leads to many other questions: if forcing removal isn't fine, what about forcing removal [b']or[/b] burn? If all decks can't be expected to run monster removal, can they all be expected to run monster removal or burn? The answer determines the fate of Gellenduo. What about forcing removal or some other destruction effect (Taro)? What about forcing removal or some other targeting effect (Reaper)? What about forcing removal if the monster in question requires a Tribute (Caste Gate)? What about forcing removal or obnoxiously large monsters? Obviously, not all decks can be expected to run 5000 ATK monsters, but does that mean we should ban F.G.D. for de facto forcing removal in decks without such monsters? What about Synchro Monsters like Colossal Fighter? What about 2-card combos? Should we Limit Marauding Captain and ban Gravekeeper's Servant? What about the Yubel series, which forces multiple pieces of removal rather than just one?

 

And so on. It seems clear that there is no single logical point at which to draw a line. However, two things do make themselves equally clear:

 

1) Banning every card mentioned above would be ridiculous.

 

2) Leaving all Stall cards at 3 would also be ridiculous, as it would create skill-less decks that could claim easy wins against any deck that doesn't main nothing but removal.

 

Hence, some sort of decision needs to be made by the list's creator with regard to Stall. Some choose to ban several Stall cards and leave the others at 3; others Limit several Stall cards but ban none.