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Titanjon

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Titanjon Newbie

Titanjon

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In my idea, here's how my prediction of the next ban list looks

 

Banned:

Crush Card Virus

Rescue Cat

Dark Strike Fighter

Dark Armed Dragon

Judgment Dragon

 

Limited:

Test Tiger

 

Semi-Limited:

Solar Recharge

Mystical Space Typhoon

D.D. Warrior Lady

Fissure

Smashing Ground

 

Unlimited:

Reinforcement of the Army

Magical Stone Excavation

 

Reasons:

 

Crush Card Virus is way too overpowering. Simply ditch a Sangan or Necro Gardna during your opponent's Standby Phase and you immediately shutdown most of your opponent's Deck. Banning it would give other players a chance.

 

Dark Strike Fighter is too game-breaking at 2 or 3. Most players would use Summoner Monk + Summoner Monk + Rescue Cat to hit for 2 DSF and then Tribute both for exactly Game. Limiting DSF would not prevent the OTK. So I banned him.

 

You know why Rescue Cat is Banned.

 

Blackwing - Gale the Whirlwind was limited because of its Game-Breaking Shrink effect. Blackwing into a huge monster and you can immediately turn the table. Or for someon who had total control could maintain it by summoning Gale and shrinking a big monster. This is worse than when people use to ram D.D. Assailant into everything to remove.

 

Reinforcement of the Army brought the playability of most Decks to almost nothing. So nothing that people found out ways to get the Warriors out some other way. This is why Freed the Matchless General is being spotted in a few Decks.

 

Mystical Space Typhoon is a card that people use at the correct time, but need another one at another correct time. Space Typhoon at 2 would help get through Mirror Force and Torrential.

 

D.D. Warrior Lady has seen less play because 1 would be needed at 1 time while another time it was needed. Just like MST. D.D. Warrior Lady needs to see more play.

 

Fissure/Smashing Ground are not game-breaking at 2. It can change the face of the game not as fast as things like Gale. If you clear the field and draw a Smashing Ground, it would be dead.

 

Magical Stone Excavation was unlimited because even in D.D.T. it's not game-breaking. If D.D. is gone, MSE would be useless. Especially if one Draws it.

 

That's my prediction for the Sept 2009 Ban List

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♥ ЅϯᵲåώӀӞ℮ᴙʀɣ−ɴɨɨ−ƈħåɴ ♥ Newbie

♥ ЅϯᵲåώӀӞ℮ᴙʀɣ−ɴɨɨ−ƈħåɴ ♥

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Honestly, I admire how much you know how to play YGO, and how skilled you are at noticing things like these, but I doubt anybody's going to really do anything about it...

 

Well, at least until they figure it out themselves or somebody else uses it in a tourney.

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CrabHelmet Newbie

CrabHelmet

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After I make this post, I'll move this to the correct section.

 

Since this is stated to be a prediction of Konami's next move rather than a declaration of what you believe to be ideal, it is understood that severe deformities in your list result from deliberately using Konamilogic rather than actual logic, so you can just say that you already knew all of the following and were just deliberately making bad choices to emulate Konami. That being said:

 

Limiting DSF does nothing. You only need 1 to OTK, and this can be accomplished in any number of decks. The only deck that even comes close to requiring a pair is Kitty Synchro, which can only deal 7800 damage by spending three cards with DSF at 1 (Arcanite Magician replaces the second DSF), but if dealing 7800 damage by spending half an opening hand just by virtue of drawing Summon Priest is considered nice and fair, then something is seriously wrong. Oh, and did I mention that you can't do that anyhow on your list, since you put Airbellum at 1, thus making the only benefit to Limiting DSF completely null and void? Bit of a wall-banger there, mate, and not one that you can explain away by claiming to be using Konamilogic, unless you predict that Konami's left hand won't know what its right hand is doing while both hands are working on building the banlist.

 

Speaking of Airbellum, Airbellum isn't the problem. Rescue Cat is the problem. Ban Rescue Cat and DSF, and your problems are solved. (Note that banning only one does not solve the problems; DSF can be used in several decks, and Kitty Synchro is a problem even in the absence of DSF.)

 

I must admit that I am unsure as of yet about Gale, but I think you'll find that a much better card to target in the Blackwing deck is Black Whirlwind, which causes all of their monsters to float instantly and do better than that in multiples. In fact, Black Whirlwind is one of those rare cards for which a Limitation is easily justified, because its effect is very different in multiples than it is in singles. If you put Black Whirlwind to 1 and perhaps ban DAD while you're at it, you'll find that, with the bans on CCV and DSF in place, the Blackwing problem is largely negated. (Gale, being highly searchable, won't hurt them all that much if Limited.)

 

Unbanning Call of the Haunted is just a pure wall-banger, especially since you haven't at least gotten rid of Monster Reborn in the process. Your complete argument for unbanning it is that we need more generic revival and that it "could step in right on time when you need a card in your Graveyard that you can't get out any other way". The former justification is just plain false - we need less generic revival, especially with the Synchro mechanic in existence - and the latter justification is just plain ridiculous, since "this card can help you in a duel" has never been anything even remotely resembling a valid argument for unbanning a card.

 

Also, all your Semi-Limits can easily just go to 3, though Konamilogic won't agree. (Konamilogic would also ask you to Semi-Limit a bunch of random, currently Unlimited cards that nobody has used for six months.)

 

...also, you left Judgment Dragoon at 2. Lightlords are enough of a problem without hitting just about all the top decks that aren't them, and JD is pretty unambiguously a problem card.

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White Void Newbie

White Void

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Um any explainable reason whatsoever why MST would ever be at anything that is not 1? I'm curious to see the logic behind this. Same with Smashing Ground and Fissure...explain this, immediately if possible. Also, Call of the Haunted will not be back anytime soon as long as Monster Reborn stays Limited, Call and Premature were the trade-offs for Monster Reborn to come back. Also Warrior Lady at 2 doesn't even make sense whatsoever...

 

And you didn't address Lightsworn whatsoever...

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SkillzKill Newbie

SkillzKill

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All Limits on this list should be banned except for Gale, which can go to 3. All Semi-Limits can go to 3 and it wouldn't change much at all.

 

Um any explainable reason whatsoever why MST would ever be at anything that is not 1? I'm curious to see the logic behind this. Same with Smashing Ground and Fissure...explain this' date=' immediately if possible.

[/quote']

 

Smashing Ground and Fissure deserve to be at 3. They are barely ever played, and 1-for-1 monster removal isn't anywhere near limit-worthy, especially when you can't choose the targets. MST should be able to go to 3 as well, although Heavy Storm needs to be banned.

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GenzoTheHarpist Newbie

GenzoTheHarpist

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Speaking of Airbellum' date=' Airbellum isn't the problem. Rescue Cat is the problem.

[/quote']

 

Changed your mind on this one again, or just trolling?

 

What do you mean "again"? Rescue Cat was the one I had banned in my Baker's Dozen Bans topic.

You originally had rescue cat banned, then Atem convinced you it was Airbellum and we got into several arguments over that. I don't remember you ever switching back to it being rescue cat.

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Titanjon Newbie

Titanjon

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Speaking of Airbellum' date=' Airbellum isn't the problem. Rescue Cat is the problem.

[/quote']

 

Changed your mind on this one again, or just trolling?

 

What do you mean "again"? Rescue Cat was the one I had banned in my Baker's Dozen Bans topic.

You originally had rescue cat banned, then Atem convinced you it was Airbellum and we got into several arguments over that. I don't remember you ever switching back to it being rescue cat.

 

 

Well Rescue Cat is more broken than Airbellum because Cat is what searches for Airbellum, especiall two of them. With Rescue Cat banned, there will be no way to search out Airbellum, you'd have to wait for a draw. And the best thing you could get with it is Arcanite Magician.

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CrabHelmet Newbie

CrabHelmet

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To the topic creator: my criticisms were of the list from an ideal perspective, not from a Konamilogic perspective (with the exception of the whole thing with Limiting both Airbellum and DSF, though with Konami even that isn't certain), and thus the changes you have made have drawn you further away from what I would describe as a realistic prediction.

 

Speaking of Airbellum' date=' Airbellum isn't the problem. Rescue Cat is the problem.

[/quote']

 

Changed your mind on this one again, or just trolling?

 

What do you mean "again"? Rescue Cat was the one I had banned in my Baker's Dozen Bans topic.

You originally had rescue cat banned, then Atem convinced you it was Airbellum and we got into several arguments over that. I don't remember you ever switching back to it being rescue cat.

 

I did, a while back.

 

I went back to the Baker's Dozen Bans topic to copy-paste my rationale for banning Rescue Cat over Airbellum, only to find that... I never posted any. I'd have thought you guys would have called me on something like that. >_>

 

The following argument accepts as true the previously-proven statement that the combination of Rescue Cat and Airbellum is unacceptable to the game and that one of the two must therefore be eliminated; justification for this statement can be provided as necessary, but for now we take it as a theorem.

 

The logic behind banning Airbellum to save Rescue Cat was that neither one could be singularly identified as the culprit, each card was acceptable in the absence of the other, and Rescue Cat contributed more to the game than Airbellum ever could. This mode of logic is indeed valid; I still believe that these premises yield this conclusion. However, I have after further consideration become convinced that not all of these premises are true; thus, while the above logic is still valid, it is in my mind untrue and unsound.

 

To put it more simply: Rescue Cat is the problem.

 

Rescue Cat's fundamental function is most obvious in Gladiator Beasts, where it either turns into any one Gladiator Beast of your choice that gets its effect (and can then attack and get another effect) or into any two 1600 ATK Gladiator Beasts, both of which get their effects after the Battle Phase. Truly, even with only two targets in the deck and without combining with any other cards in the hand or on the field, it is already a paragon of versatility. And if you happen to already have a Gladiator Beast on the field, you also have the option of turning Rescue Cat into any two Gladiator Beast effects you like (i.e. do almost anything).

 

Take special note of the aforementioned 1600 ATK; with three different Rescue Cat targets (excluding Airbellum) having 1600 ATK, it is clear that Rescue Cat's function at its most basic is to field 3200 ATK instantly at the cost of itself and its own Summon without any need for setup or combo with any other cards - and that the cards which compose this 3200 ATK have additional useful effects of their own (those being anti-burn, Glad-tagging, and Ancient Gear-esque negation).

 

Naturally, this 3200 ATK is purely a minimum. Observe that being able to place Rescue Cat upon the field twice in a single turn results in sufficient damage to perform an OTK. This means that an opening hand containing any two of a set of three cards - Rescue Cat, Giant Rat, and Limit Reverse - is, from those two cards alone, capable of declaring victory in its very second turn (and, in one combination, without even using its Normal Summon). Some removal and/or protection would be helpful, but bear in mind that this is a 2-card OTK - the remaining five cards the player has drawn by the start of his second turn can be anything at all, and thus can handle any problems that get in the way of the 8500 ATK swarm. And this is a Turn 3 victory in a format where problems like Summon Priest --> 2 DSF --> Game no longer exist.

 

My problem with Rescue Cat is not that it abuses the poor innocent Airbellum (for the opposite argument could be made). My problem with Rescue Cat is not that it breaks Gladiator Beasts. My problem with Rescue Cat is not even that it transforms into 3200 ATK (after all, Mataza transforms into 2600 ATK), nor is it that it has a simple 2-card OTK. My problem with Rescue Cat is that it is at the center of all of this simultaneously and, outside of these questionable 1-card combos (and an even-more-questionable 2-card combo), it has relatively limited application - essentially, it primarily exists to be abused in this manner. (Note also that the self-destruct effect is largely negligible when the Special Summoned monsters win the duel or tag out or do something similar before the end of the turn, which they generally do.) The evidence makes it clear that Rescue Cat is a problematic card, as one might expect from a card that Special Summons any pair of monsters you want from the deck, and Airbellum just happens to be the most obnoxious of its uses.

 

To put it more simply: Rescue Cat is the problem.

 

Essentially, Atem convinced us that neither was the problem and thus the card with the least application and potential should be eradicated so as to leave the game as intact as possible. However, I have since decided independently that Rescue Cat can indeed be positively identified as the problem card. I have not seen Atem speak on the subject since his persuasive argument in the last topic, so as far as I know, he still supports killing Airbellum, and while I no longer support this, I can certainly understand the reasoning behind it (and believed in it myself for a period of approximately four months); while banning one of the two is obviously necessary, I would not say that either decision is necessarily a bad move or a "wrong" one - the decision between killing Rescue Cat and killing Airbellum exists at a level of list construction theory far below the unambiguous territory of "ban DAD" and "unlimit The Transmigration Prophesy", at a level where absolute "right" and "wrong" moves do not exist, and the constructor's judgment plays a much greater role.

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Sander Newbie

Sander

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JD not banned? The funk? Also, if you are going to limit Lumina, you may as well limit Zombie Master. Lumina doesn't need limiting. Celestia doesn't deserve limiting. Celestia requires a Lightsworn as a tribute to get it's destroying effect. It was unnecessary to Limit Charge. That's basically the same as Konami did to Reinforcements of the Army. Solar Recharge is fine at 3.

 

Oh, and Limitng Honest is a stupid move as well.

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~ P O L A R I S ~ Newbie

~ P O L A R I S ~

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Everything you Limited shouldn't be.

 

Banning JD and CCV's all you need to do for LS not to be broken.

 

Mind Control should be banned. It basically turns a Tuner you control into a Synchro and destroys a monster. And that's just the beginning, you also gain any ignition or FLIP effect that monster might've had. Then there's Plasma etc. It's bad news.

 

Test Tiger should be unlimited with Gyzarus banned.

 

Gale should be unlimited with Black Whirlwind banned.

 

There're WAY more cards deserving of bans and unlimits than you're listing.

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SkillzKill Newbie

SkillzKill

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I'm sorry, but your "updated" list is even worse than your old one.

 

As said, the only Lightsworn card that needs to be touched is Judgment Dragon. Everything else goes to 3. Along with that, Card of Safe Return and Chaos Sorcerer both need a banning.

 

Gale should be unlimited with Black Whirlwind banned or limited.

 

All Semi-Limits go to 3.

 

Test Tiger should be unlimited and Gladiator Beast Gyzarus banned.

 

I'm still not sure about Mind Control, but Crab Helmet wants it banned, so it may be the right idea to do so.

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