The Dark One Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 "second' date=' me admitting that i should have lost is funny? err, why? if my deck and dueling ability were inferior to my opponents, (except in the case of lucksackzodia), shouldnt i deserve to lose? is the premise of this game not that skill and strategy in deck construction and play are the determinants of who will win? or is it all random chance to you? do you believe that there is no skill involved, no one who deserved, not just should have, but deserved to lose?" lol you said this "i think its a bad card for usage and for its inherent design. it rewards losing and punishes winning.turning around a game with 1 card to the point where you should have lost but instead your opponent who did almost everything right loses. and you, who only managed to set one card and nothing else, won." not meand no, nobody ever "deserves to win"This is a game of chance"Deserving" to win a YGO game is like deserving to win the lottery[/quote'] While obviously there is a degree of chance involved in the game, moreso in some metas than in others, if you accept chance as teh primary tenet of Yugioh, then you quite simply should not be here discussing cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesCrow Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Assume two players playing the absolute top-tier, and are as good as you can be @ ygo with out being able to see the future.It is a luck game from there.All I'm trying to show that it is absolutely retarded to ever say that someone "deserved to win" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark One Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Assume two players playing the absolute top-tier' date=' and are as good as you can be @ ygo with out being able to see the future.It is a luck game from there.All I'm trying to show that it is absolutely retarded to ever say that someone "deserved to win"[/quote'] Those are two assumptions that you can't make. Yugioh is an evolving game, so the top-tier is never truly set in stone. Even within a single top deck-type, there might be variations that could be key in regard to certain matchups. Likewise, there's really no such thing as a perfect Yugioh player. It's like poker, in a way, in that there is a lot of talent that goes into bluffing, mindgames, etc. on the top levels that is simply absent in a more basic representation of the game. A pro might make a play that is empirically worse in order to give his opponent certain impressions that could give him a huge advantage. This being said, the concept of "deserving the win" is sketchy at best. I think it's alright to feel angry at a lucksack win when you had the game by the throat the whole time, but that doesn't mean you have some "god-given" right to that victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesCrow Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 My point. There is no "deserved" victory. Only doing your best and letting luck do the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanAtlus Posted September 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Assume two players playing the absolute top-tier' date=' and are as good as you can be @ ygo with out being able to see the future.It is a luck game from there.All I'm trying to show that it is absolutely retarded to ever say that someone "deserved to win"[/quote'] Those are two assumptions that you can't make. Yugioh is an evolving game, so the top-tier is never truly set in stone. Even within a single top deck-type, there might be variations that could be key in regard to certain matchups. Likewise, there's really no such thing as a perfect Yugioh player. It's like poker, in a way, in that there is a lot of talent that goes into bluffing, mindgames, etc. on the top levels that is simply absent in a more basic representation of the game. A pro might make a play that is empirically worse in order to give his opponent certain impressions that could give him a huge advantage. This being said, the concept of "deserving the win" is sketchy at best. I think it's alright to feel angry at a lucksack win when you had the game by the throat the whole time, but that doesn't mean you have some "god-given" right to that victory. But what if both their Decks were exactly the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysty Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Assume two players playing the absolute top-tier' date=' and are as good as you can be @ ygo with out being able to see the future.It is a luck game from there.All I'm trying to show that it is absolutely retarded to ever say that someone "deserved to win"[/quote'] Those are two assumptions that you can't make. Yugioh is an evolving game, so the top-tier is never truly set in stone. Even within a single top deck-type, there might be variations that could be key in regard to certain matchups. Likewise, there's really no such thing as a perfect Yugioh player. It's like poker, in a way, in that there is a lot of talent that goes into bluffing, mindgames, etc. on the top levels that is simply absent in a more basic representation of the game. A pro might make a play that is empirically worse in order to give his opponent certain impressions that could give him a huge advantage. This being said, the concept of "deserving the win" is sketchy at best. I think it's alright to feel angry at a lucksack win when you had the game by the throat the whole time, but that doesn't mean you have some "god-given" right to that victory. If you bluff and make bad plays to make your opponent overconfident just so that you can get an advantage in the end, then that's being a good player, even if you are making bad plays. Assume two players playing the absolute top-tier' date=' and are as good as you can be @ ygo with out being able to see the future.It is a luck game from there.All I'm trying to show that it is absolutely retarded to ever say that someone "deserved to win"[/quote'] Those are two assumptions that you can't make. Yugioh is an evolving game, so the top-tier is never truly set in stone. Even within a single top deck-type, there might be variations that could be key in regard to certain matchups. Likewise, there's really no such thing as a perfect Yugioh player. It's like poker, in a way, in that there is a lot of talent that goes into bluffing, mindgames, etc. on the top levels that is simply absent in a more basic representation of the game. A pro might make a play that is empirically worse in order to give his opponent certain impressions that could give him a huge advantage. This being said, the concept of "deserving the win" is sketchy at best. I think it's alright to feel angry at a lucksack win when you had the game by the throat the whole time, but that doesn't mean you have some "god-given" right to that victory. But what if both their Decks were exactly the same? If both decks were exactly the same and both players were the perfect players, even if they use bad plays to distract their opponent or make their opponent overconfident, then it would come down to strategy and luck. However, since it seems that the top tier decks don't really take a lot of strategy to run and these two perfect players would be equal in strategic thinking, then it would pretty much just come down to luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanAtlus Posted September 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Assume two players playing the absolute top-tier' date=' and are as good as you can be @ ygo with out being able to see the future.It is a luck game from there.All I'm trying to show that it is absolutely retarded to ever say that someone "deserved to win"[/quote'] Those are two assumptions that you can't make. Yugioh is an evolving game, so the top-tier is never truly set in stone. Even within a single top deck-type, there might be variations that could be key in regard to certain matchups. Likewise, there's really no such thing as a perfect Yugioh player. It's like poker, in a way, in that there is a lot of talent that goes into bluffing, mindgames, etc. on the top levels that is simply absent in a more basic representation of the game. A pro might make a play that is empirically worse in order to give his opponent certain impressions that could give him a huge advantage. This being said, the concept of "deserving the win" is sketchy at best. I think it's alright to feel angry at a lucksack win when you had the game by the throat the whole time, but that doesn't mean you have some "god-given" right to that victory. But what if both their Decks were exactly the same? If both decks were exactly the same and both players were the perfect players, even if they use bad plays to distract their opponent or make their opponent overconfident, then it would come down to strategy and luck. However, since it seems that the top tier decks don't really take a lot of strategy to run and these two perfect players would be equal in strategic thinking, then it would pretty much just come down to luck. See? Luck does matter in the end.But the most important factor still is money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Assume two players playing the absolute top-tier' date=' and are as good as you can be @ ygo with out being able to see the future.It is a luck game from there.All I'm trying to show that it is absolutely retarded to ever say that someone "deserved to win"[/quote'] Those are two assumptions that you can't make. Yugioh is an evolving game, so the top-tier is never truly set in stone. Even within a single top deck-type, there might be variations that could be key in regard to certain matchups. Likewise, there's really no such thing as a perfect Yugioh player. It's like poker, in a way, in that there is a lot of talent that goes into bluffing, mindgames, etc. on the top levels that is simply absent in a more basic representation of the game. A pro might make a play that is empirically worse in order to give his opponent certain impressions that could give him a huge advantage. This being said, the concept of "deserving the win" is sketchy at best. I think it's alright to feel angry at a lucksack win when you had the game by the throat the whole time, but that doesn't mean you have some "god-given" right to that victory. But what if both their Decks were exactly the same? If both decks were exactly the same and both players were the perfect players, even if they use bad plays to distract their opponent or make their opponent overconfident, then it would come down to strategy and luck. However, since it seems that the top tier decks don't really take a lot of strategy to run and these two perfect players would be equal in strategic thinking, then it would pretty much just come down to luck. See? Luck does matter in the end.But the most important factor still is money. Money for the cards, Luck ftw. Pretty much how it goes and lots of stratgey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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