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GFX Discussion- Problem of the Section


Icy

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Removal of the CnC and Class System

- Such systems promote Spam, and lack of learning thereof. A user would post a simple 2 sentence (if it can be considered that) post. You do not post constructive criticism, and are not newby friendly.

 

Telling something that they did wrong, without proper instruction or a way to fix said "problem" may constitute mild flaming and spamming. As all you say is the wrong and no way to improve.

 

The Class System forms an unfair and totally diluted sense of superiority. It in no way helps people improve and get better, and instead belittles them.

 

Discuss.

 

(Take Note: No formal action will be taken until Yin, and a healthy amount of members post in this thread for their own opinion).

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Glad I agree with you and Polar on this one. The GD section has been the 'say 'nice job' to boost post count' section for too long, and I'm glad you guys want some changes. There should be another Mod to help Blood Rose out too. As for the Class system, I agree with you 100%, but I'll say that the people who put [CLASS] in their threads are asking for it, so they should expect it. It's their choice.

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With the creation of the whole "classing" thing, I have noticed that critique has completely gone downhill. Several times I see 1 or 2 comments and then "Solid Novice" or something similar, probably have the same thing repeated a couple more times too.

 

The listing of what's wrong is kind of my fault, since it did rise out of my use of it. But the way it's being used is a bastardization of the idea and doesn't also give advice or ideas like my usage always did.

 

I just think the whole class system thing is stupid, that's why I never bothered with it.

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Say what you wish about the Graphics. I would say the same with Custom Cards as well. But I dont expect a "You rock! 10/10" or "You blow 0/10" That is NOT Constructive critism. Perhaps GFX should use a few ideas from CC in Modship with Warning Level increases for repeat offenders.

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Say what you wish about the Graphics. I would say the same with Custom Cards as well. But I dont expect a "You rock! 10/10" or "You blow 0/10" That is NOT Constructive critism. Perhaps GFX should use a few ideas from CC in Modship with Warning Level increases for repeat offenders.

 

You weren't around when I talked to thousands of members about those posts.

So don't go using that. And you aren't on MSN/AIM enough to discuss it with ME and Yankee. You're on the boards, but you aren't talking to us like you should.

 

So, why don't you get on AIM/MSN and I'll fill you in. Before you dig a deep hole.

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Back when I was making gfx, I recieved cnc from other sites. I got nasty cnc, even harsher than the cnc here. They usually didn't tell me how to improve, they told me what was wrong and I was expected to fix it on my own. I didn't expect to get my hand held the entire time. If I wanted to learn how to fix my mistakes I would re-read the cnc carefully and read tuts that would help.

If you're giving cnc, you dont have to know how to fix a problem to say it's there.

If a tag has blurring issues, you can state it's there even if you dont know how to fix it.

Occasionally, I'd have advice for the tag maker but other times I would not.

Learning how to gfx isn't easy and the cnc you'll get isn't always gonna be "sugar coated".

Cnc'ing is the only way we can help, even stating that a tag has blurring issues can make someone think, "oh maybe I shouldn't blur as much next time" even if the cnc'er didn't offer any advice for it.

I wouldn't call it mild flaming, I'd call it tough love.

 

My 2 cents.

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What you consider "sugar coated", is what some of us (me and Problematica included) consider something that should be given right away. If you cannot offer advice on how to fix said "problem", your opinion isn't worth the time. And is effectively spamming.

 

You're better off stating "I like the sig. Good job."

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What you consider "sugar coated"' date=' is what some of us (me and Problematica included) consider something that should be given right away. [b']If you cannot offer advice on how to fix is, your opinion isn't worth the time. [/b]And is effectively spamming.

 

Not everyone knows how to fix problems.

We can only offer our oppinions and expect the person to react accordingly.

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What you consider "sugar coated"' date=' is what some of us (me and Problematica included) consider something that should be given right away. [b']If you cannot offer advice on how to fix is, your opinion isn't worth the time. [/b]And is effectively spamming.

 

Not everyone knows how to fix problems.

We can only offer our oppinions and expect the person to react accordingly.

 

Then why say anything, if you can only point out a problem that you yourself cannot fix?

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What you consider "sugar coated"' date=' is what some of us (me and Problematica included) consider something that should be given right away. If you cannot offer advice on how to fix said "problem", your opinion isn't worth the time. And is effectively spamming.

 

You're better off stating "I like the sig. Good job."

[/quote']

 

Whoa, I always said I didn't like the sugar coated bulls***

 

I simply said I do not like it when the cnc is just tells that something very specific is wrong without telling how, because you cannot learn how to correct it if you don't know what you did wrong (e.g. someone saying lighting is bad without saying why or how there is anything wrong with it, this doesn't say that the light is coming from the wrong side or is too bright and will only lead the person to keep doing the same thing because they have no idea what to do to fix it)

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I have been thinking about this for a while, and it's actually why I started the Scratchworks Family, and why I have recently been largely avoiding this section.

People should do more than just say what is wrong with a specific piece of art, they should give thoughts on how to fix it. This is good for the following reasons:

- It encourages people commenting on a piece of art to do critical problem solving, which will help them when it comes to problem solving for their own work.

- People who's work is being commented on will have an easier time of fixing problems, which allows people to get better faster.

 

The current system encourages very slow skill growth, as people aren't told how to fix something, merely that something needs to be fixed.

 

On the topic of the classing system, there are really two main choices:

- Keep the Class system, but require people on the classing team to give useful ideas on how to fix things, holding them to the same requirements as any other posters.

- Remove the class system entirely.

 

As has already been said, the Class system encourages superiority amongst the members, it makes people less likely to post in the Graphic Design section, for fear that they will be eviscerated by people with over-inflated egos.

 

I personally agree that CnC and Classing should both be removed, and that people should instead be required to give ways to fix a problem, instead of just stating that the problem exists.

 

Another lesser item is the amount of sticky threads here. Most of them have fallen out of use, and so I suggest that the sticking of threads in this section being re-evaluated. I suggest that all of the custom card image threads be unstickied, and be replaced with a directory, which takes up a lot less space on the page.

Also, I believe that the "Post Your First Signature" thread be unstickied, along with Jappio's sprites, as they have both fallen largely out of use.

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IMO I really don't mind comments like "bad lighting" or "blurred to much" but as stated before a clarification would help. Telling were or how such problems exist or occur would be enough and having someone "hold your hand" through it would result in problems. Similar styles of tags would be one problem. Besides telling someone how to fix it won't really help because "fixing" a sig usually doesn't happen, but rather the advice is used for the next try. Telling how to fix a problem will not always or usually come in handy when making a different sig unless you use the same sytle over and over again.

 

My input....;)

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The main problem is that people are idiots.

 

Kay... Lets go with that and lock the section down.

No. That's overkill, don'tcha think?

 

So, offer suggestions to fix whatever problems you see.

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The mods do everything they can, but changing the way things work on a forum is more than just warnings and bans, it has to happen with the populace as a whole. Members need to understand that the new system is in their best interest, and then lead each other in following it, with the Mods at the head.

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Yeah but this isn't psychology, it's a forum. I really don't think that a few moderators over the internet can alter the fundamental idiocy that characterizes a lot of these problems. However, I do know that these people love to point fingers, scream n00b, and mini-mod. Tighten the rules more, and they will solve the problems themselves, just to get in the good graces of the mods and get more rep points. If you say something is not encouraged, people will get away with it, but if you write it as a rule it becomes enforced by the members as well.

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OK. How about getting mods to actually enforce standards of quality in work and cnc. Seems simple enough.

It's a lot more than just punching someone in the gut for doing wrong.

 

The mods do everything they can' date=' but changing the way things work on a forum is more than just warnings and bans, it has to happen with the populace as a whole. Members need to understand that the new system is in their best interest, and then lead each other in following it, with the Mods at the head.

[/quote']

 

It's not about regulating idiocy' date=' it's about fundamentally changing the minds of the populace. Using a stick to force people to change is never as effective as a carrot and stick together. Saying that you can just punish people into doing what you want shows a misunderstanding of basic psychology.

[/quote']

 

You sir, just got a +1rep from me...

 

@TVL: My moderating style, works for each persons unique personality. As well as their psychological being. I couldn't care less about their alter-egos on the boards.

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Yeah but this isn't psychology' date=' it's a forum. I really don't think that a few moderators over the internet can alter the fundamental idiocy that characterizes a lot of these problems. However, I do know that these people love to point fingers, scream n00b, and mini-mod. Tighten the rules more, and they will solve the problems themselves, just to get in the good graces of the mods and get more rep points. If you say something is not encouraged, people will get away with it, but if you write it as a rule it becomes enforced by the members as well.

[/quote']

 

What is a forum but a collection of people, and what are people but a body with a brain? Most people don't care about getting in the good graces of a mod, I know I don't, they care about finding people they get along with, and if they get along with someone, they are much more likely to listen to them and follow them. The person on the other side of the connection, once they have a relationship with a person, can then use that relationship to regulate misbehavior in a much more effective way than they would be able to otherwise.

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