Fraz Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 With all the dreamlist threads popping up recently, most of which suck, I'd like to know what people's opinions are on what makes a good banlist and discuss the flaws and advantages of everyone's ideals. I think it's clear from their past decisions that the banlist is designed to discourage/kill OTK strategies and to make the game more archetype focused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAmNateXero Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 ITF If its not a 3/0 list its bad.[/discussion.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PikaPerson01 Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 ITF If its not a 3/0 list its bad.[/discussion.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraz Posted November 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 3/0 is a bad concept.[/discussion] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Armed_Zombie Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 3/0 is a bad concept.[/discussion] Why? Sure it isn't perfect but it gets it mostly right. It bans cards that give too much unfair advantage, it limits and semi-limits only cards that are needed in higher amounts to be deadly (i.e. Dewloren, Night Assailent) and leaves everything else unlimited. I'll admit that some of the stuff that would go on the list would make me sad but for the most part it does the nasty job the best. Making a banlist and using the 3/0 logic even a tad bit makes the list better in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PikaPerson01 Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 Fraz is a bad player.[/discussion] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraz Posted November 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Mind explaining why you think so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 WHAT MAKES ME A GOOD DEMOMAN?[/lolTF2] On-Topic: A 3/0 list seems like an odd idea, but it also seems pretty interesting.Since if it were a "GOOD" list, it would have Dandylion @3(inb4urdoinitwrong) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabHelmet Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Mind explaining why you think so? Because anyone who thinks the unsupported statement "3/0 is teh suxx0r" is perfectly true and instantly wins any argument is a colossal moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraz Posted November 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 You don't seem to grasp the idea of baiting a response from an idiot by mimicking their post. I never posted "3/0 is shite and I'm not going to explain why", I posted asking why people here think it's actually good twice now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAmNateXero Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Fraz to keep it short and simple. YCM believes that Broken card = Broken card no matter how many of Broken Card you are able to use. So if Broken card is going to stay Broken card than why not correct broken card instead of tip toeing around broken card. Now do I always believe this? No... but I do understand it. Also you have to realize most of this logic comes from people who do not play IRL and I do think that this limits a persons ideas on certain situations. This is hard to explain because like online Most tournaments all look alike. But Im sure you know what im talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Unclean One: VK Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 What I think makes a good list:Suppresses OTKs and FTKs.Weakens archtypes that have a near broken card.Allows other archtypes to compete.And if fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 What I think makes a good list:Suppresses OTKs and FTKs.Weakens archtypes that have a near broken card.Allows other archtypes to compete.And if fair. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAmNateXero Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Look, Im tired of everybody saying OTKs are bad. Everybody just get over yourselves. Even if we were to eliminate every commonly know OTKs that we can think up by creating a list, All we're going to do is search for new ones. Its the nature of this game. To create combos that win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Look' date=' Im tired of everybody saying OTKs are bad. Everybody just get over yourselves. Even if we were to eliminate every commonly know OTKs that we can think up by creating a list, All we're going to do is search for new ones. Its the nature of this game. To create combos that win.[/quote'] They are bad.But we are gonna have to live with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraz Posted November 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 OTKs aren't bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 OTKs aren't bad. Hm... Some are and some aren't?It's more of the cards that are just too easy to pull of which a bad i think atleast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAmNateXero Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Look' date=' Im tired of everybody saying OTKs are bad. Everybody just get over yourselves. Even if we were to eliminate every commonly know OTKs that we can think up by creating a list, All we're going to do is search for new ones. Its the nature of this game. To create combos that win.[/quote'] They are bad.But we are gonna have to live with them. I just have to know what decks do you run, how do they win. Regardless of what your answer is Ban it. For every deck wins in the same way. inflicting damage, or locking the opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Look' date=' Im tired of everybody saying OTKs are bad. Everybody just get over yourselves. Even if we were to eliminate every commonly know OTKs that we can think up by creating a list, All we're going to do is search for new ones. Its the nature of this game. To create combos that win.[/quote'] They are bad.But we are gonna have to live with them. I just have to know what decks do you run, how do they win. Regardless of what your answer is Ban it. For every deck wins in the same way. inflicting damage, or locking the opponent. Pretty much this. I run zombies, alot of those should be high on the ban list for good reasons. What if i said warriors? Then again that would be retarted :?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkel Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 3/0 lists are the only good lists out there. All cards inherently should be at 3 or 0. The main reason (I'll explain the other reason later) people think limiting/semi'ing is a good idea is because they see Konami doing it. Why does Konami do it? They either don't understand the game or they want money. Wanna guess which one is dominant? Puting a broken card at 1 or 2 allows it to still exist and wreak havoc, and it doesn't fix the problem. Players only need to OTK once per Duel, amirite? By banning certain cards, the cards deemed "broken" that interact with them can be at 3 in peace. On a 3/0 list, limits and semi-limits exist to put certain combos at 0, if you will. For example, Night Assailant is at 1 because otherwise it could always recover another copy of itself from the Graveyard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAmNateXero Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 My Gamers point of view. If a card is broken or damages the game it should be dealt with, regardless if it combos or not. Playing cards together is what makes the game, and cards shouldn't be banned simply because it works well with another. The card should impact the game some how. My favorite example gale. Unlike shrink gale's half is permanent. Not only that it being a monster means that not only can it shrink, it has the ability to destroy as well. Now. Had gale just been another shrink. (meaning its effect read. Once while this card is face-up half the ATK of one monster on the field until the end of the turn. This card can not attack the turn this effect was used.) I wouldn't consider it limit able at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraz Posted November 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 3/0 lists are the only good lists out there. All cards inherently should be at 3 or 0. The main reason (I'll explain the other reason later) people think limiting/semi'ing is a good idea is because they see Konami doing it. Why does Konami do it? They either don't understand the game or they want money. Wanna guess which one is dominant? Puting a broken card at 1 or 2 allows it to still exist and wreak havoc' date=' and it doesn't fix the problem. Players only need to OTK once per Duel, amirite? By banning certain cards, the cards deemed "broken" that interact with them can be at 3 in peace. On a 3/0 list, limits and semi-limits exist to put certain combos at 0, if you will. For example, Night Assailant is at 1 because otherwise it could always recover another copy of itself from the Graveyard.[/quote'] You can look at the current banlist and explain almost all the choices on it using that logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkest Hour Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Only ban cards that are ruining the meta ATM. Banning obscure cards that nobody uses except to OTK is stupid and takes up space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manjoume Thunder Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 For the people that are saying that limits/semi-lmits are pointless:Gladiator Beasts. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkest Hour Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Wrong you ared. Ban Gyzarus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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