What would be your ban list?

[Flame Dragon]

Forbidden Cards

 

ALL-OUT ATTACKS

ARCANA FORCE EX - THE DARK RULER

ARCANA FORCE XXI – THE WORLD

ARMED SAMURAI – BEN-KEI

BATTLE MANIA

BLACK LUSTER SOLDIER – ENVOY OF THE BEGINNING

BLACK WHIRLWIND

BLACKWING ARMOR MASTER

BRAIN CONTROL

BREAKER THE MAGICAL WARRIOR

BRIONAC, DRAGON OF THE ICE BARRIER

BUTTERFLY DAGGER – ELMA

CALL OF THE HAUNTED

CARD OF SAFE RETURN

CELESTIA, LIGHTSWORN ANGEL

CHANGE OF HEART

CHAOS EMPEROR DRAGON – ENVOY OF THE END

CHAOS SORCERER

CHIMERATECH FORTRESS DRAGON

CHIMERATECH OVERDRAGON

CONFISCATION

CRUSH CARD VIRUS

CYBER DRAGON

CYBER JAR

CYBER-STEIN

CYBER END DRAGON

CYBER TWIN DRAGON

DARK ARMED DRAGON

DARK HOLE

DARK MAGICIAN OF CHAOS

DARK STRIKE FIGHTER

DARKLORD ZERATO

DECK DEVASTATION VIRUS

DELINQUENT DUO

DEMISE, KING OF ARMAGEDDON

DESTINY HERO – DISK COMMANDER

DIMENSION FUSION

ERADICATOR EPIDEMIC VIRUS

EVIL HERO DARK GAIA

EXCHANGE OF THE SPIRIT

EXODIA THE FORBIDDEN ONE

FIBER JAR

FIVE-HEADED DRAGON

GLADIATOR BEAST GYZARUS

GOLD SARCOPHAGUS

GORZ THE EMISSARY OF DARKNESS

GOYO GARDIAN

GRACEFUL CHARITY

HARPIE’S FEATHER DUSTER

HEAVY STORM

IMPERIAL IRON WALL

IMPERIAL ORDER

INFERNO TEMPEST

JUDGMENT DRAGON

LAST TURN

LAST WILL

LIFE EQUALIZER

LIMITER REMOVAL

MAGE POWER

MAGIC CYLINDER

MAGICAL EXPLOSION

MAGICAL SCIENTIST

MAKYURA THE DESTRUCTOR

MEGAMORPH

MIND MASTER

MIRAGE OF NIGHTMARE

MORPHING JAR

MONSTER REBORN

NOBLEMAN OF CROSSOUT

PAINFUL CHOICE

POT OF GREED

POT OF GREEDEROSITY

POWER BOND

PREMATURE BURIAL

RAIGEKI

REKINDLING

RETURN FROM THE DIFFERENT DIMENSION

RESCUE CAT

REVERSAL QUIZ

RING OF DESTRUCTION

SANGAN

SELF-DESTRUCT BUTTON

SINISTER SERPENT

SIXTH SENSE

SKY SCOURGE NORLERAS

SNATCH STEAL

SNIPE HUNTER

STARDUST DRAGON

SUPERANCIENT DEEPSEA KING COELACANTH

THE FORCEFUL SENTRY

THOUSAND-EYES RESTRICT

TIME SEAL

TREEBORN FROG

TRIBE-INFECTING VIRUS

TSUKUYOMI

ULTIMATE OFFERING

UNITED WE STAND

VICTORY DRAGON

WAVE-MOTION CANNON

WITCH OF THE BLACK FOREST

WULF, LIGHTSWORN BEAST

YATA-GARASU

 

NEW! – All-Out Attacks, Arcana Force EX - The Dark Ruler, Arcana Force XXI – The World, Armed Samurai – Ben-Kei, Battle Mania, Black Whirlwind, Blackwing Armor Master, Brain Control, Breaker the Magical Warrior, Brionic, Dragon of the Ice Barrier, Call of the Hunted, Celestia, Lightsworn Angel, Chaos Sorcerer, Chimeratech Fortress Dragon, Chimeratech Overdragon, Cyber Dragon, Cyber End Dragon, Cyber Twin Dragon, Dark Armed Dragon, Darklord Zerato, Deck Devastation Virus, Demise, King of Armageddon, Eradicator Epidemic Virus, Evil Hero Dark Gaia, Exodia the Forbidden One, Five Headed Dragon, Gladiator Beast Gyzarus, Gorz the Emissary of Darkness, Goyo Guardian, Heavy Storm, Imperial Iron Wall, Inferno Tempest, Judgment Dragon, Life Equalizer, Limiter Removal, Mage Power, Magic Cylinder, Magical Explosion, Megamorph, Mind Master Morphing Jar, Nobleman of Crossout, Pot of Greederosity Power Bond, Rekindling, Return from the Different Dimension, Rescue Cat, Reversal Quiz, Sangan, Self-Destruct Button, Sky Scourge Norleras, Snipe Hunter, Stardust Dragon, Superancient Deepsea King Coelacanth, Treeborn Frog, Ultimate Offering, United We Stand, Wave-Motion Cannon, Wulf, Lightsworn Beast

 

II. Limited Cards

 

ARCANA FORCE 0 - THE FOOL

CARD DESTRUCTION

CARD TROOPER

CEASEFIRE

CHAIN STRIKE

DESTINY HERO - MALICIOUS

ELEMENTAL HERO STRATOS

GIANT TRUNADE

GREEN BABOON, DEFENDER OF THE FOREST

MARSHMALLON

MIRROR FORCE

NIGHT ASSAILANT

SPIRIT REAPER

SWORDS OF REVEALING LIGHT

 

NEW! – Arcana Force 0 - The Fool, Destiny Hero – Malicious, Chain Strike

 

III. Semi-Limited Cards

 

None

 

NEW! – None

 

NEW! – The following cards are no longer Limited: Advanced Ritual Art, Book of Moon, Cathedral of Nobles, D.D. Warrior Lady, Dandylion, Fissure, Foolish Burial, Future Fusion, Gold Sarcophagus, Gravity Bind, Jinzo, Left Arm of the Forbidden One, Left Leg of the Forbidden One, Level Limit - Area B, Magician of Faith, Magical Stone Excavation, Manticore of Darkness, Mask of Darkness, Metamorphosis, Mind Crush, Monster Gate, Mystical Space Typhoon, Necroface, Neo-Spacian Grand Mole, Ojama Trio, Overload Fusion, Phantom of Chaos, Raiza the Storm Monarch, Reasoning, Right Arm of the Forbidden One, Right Leg of the Forbidden One, Scapegoat, Smashing Ground, Summon Priest, The Transmigration Prophecy, Torrential Tribute, Trap Dustshoot, Twin-Headed Behemoth, Wall of Revealing Light

 

 

Have fun

[CrabHelmet]

I don't think that was "decided" so much as "Crab Helmet said it' date=' and nobody applied any original thought to the statement."

[/quote']

 

I actually don't remember saying that. I think the "they don't hurt the game as much as the components help the game" argument is much stronger, and any argument based on allowing lucksack wins just because the user will still lose a lot seems very shaky.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

I don't think that was "decided" so much as "Crab Helmet said it' date=' and nobody applied any original thought to the statement."

[/quote']

 

I actually don't remember saying that. I think the "they don't hurt the game as much as the components help the game" argument is much stronger, and any argument based on allowing lucksack wins just because the user will still lose a lot seems very shaky.

 

That was the explanation you gave me when presenting the idea.

 

I don't care what you're fond of' date=' unless you can come up with a good reason.

[/quote']

 

Here's your reason: traps.

 

Cards whose OTKs are so weak as to have no significant impact on the game do not directly damage the game. However, they act as traps to lure bad players into thinking they are good and running them. This causes bad players to lose more often, increasing the impact of skill on the game and thus improving the game state. Contrary to what is intuitive, bad cards are absolutely vital to the game, as they make it easier for the superior players to triumph more consistently over the inferior players.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Here, I decided to waste my time making a ban list which you people will probably use to tell me "I don't know the game". Admittedly, I have rarely dueled in Advanced Format, and I have been missing from the Meta for a while, but I looked over deck lists and thought about it, ending up with this unordered list of changes:

 

Banned!: Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier, Magical Explosion, Gorz, the Emissary of Darkness, Dark Armed Dragon, Megamorph, Return From the Different Dimension, Trageodia, Reversal Quiz, All-Out Attacks, Judgement Dragon, Trident Dragion, Chimeratech Overdragon, Chimeratech Fortress Dragon, Power Bond, Limiter Removal, Gladiator Beast Gyzarus, Demise, King of Armageddon

(This is pretty much anything that can be easily abused, or that makes a certain deck type too powerful)

 

Limited!: Honest, XX-Saber Faultroll, Gottom’ Emergency Call, Black Rose Dragon, United We Stand, Lonefire Blossom, Dragon’s Mirror, Five-Headed Dragon, Cyber Eltanin (on the fence about this)

 

Semi-Limited!: Advanced Ritual Art, Ojama Trio, Reinforcement of the Army, Solar Recharge, Trade-In

 

No Longer Limited!: The Exodia limbs

(Not really a point for them to be banned when the head is at 1. Nobody would plan on using more than 1 of the limbs, unless they came up with some sort of deck...)

 

I was also thinking that Chain Material might be needed in this, seeing as it really only has 2 uses I can think of.

Other considerations: Magical Merchant

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

Banned

Nothing

Semi-Limit

Dark Hole

 

Predictable.

 

A slight variant on the original, but still rather predictable yes. And that will remain as my response to all of these banlist threads.

[Wizarus]

[spoiler=The List]

Forbidden Cards

 

ALL-OUT ATTACKS

ARCANA FORCE EX - THE DARK RULER

ARCANA FORCE XXI – THE WORLD

ARMED SAMURAI – BEN-KEI

BATTLE MANIA

BLACK LUSTER SOLDIER – ENVOY OF THE BEGINNING

BLACK WHIRLWIND

BLACKWING ARMOR MASTER

BRAIN CONTROL

BREAKER THE MAGICAL WARRIOR

BRIONAC' date=' DRAGON OF THE ICE BARRIER

BUTTERFLY DAGGER – ELMA

CALL OF THE HAUNTED

CARD OF SAFE RETURN

CELESTIA, LIGHTSWORN ANGEL

CHANGE OF HEART

CHAOS EMPEROR DRAGON – ENVOY OF THE END

CHAOS SORCERER

CHIMERATECH FORTRESS DRAGON

CHIMERATECH OVERDRAGON

CONFISCATION

CRUSH CARD VIRUS

CYBER DRAGON

CYBER JAR

CYBER-STEIN

CYBER END DRAGON

CYBER TWIN DRAGON

DARK ARMED DRAGON

DARK HOLE

DARK MAGICIAN OF CHAOS

DARK STRIKE FIGHTER

DARKLORD ZERATO

DECK DEVASTATION VIRUS

DELINQUENT DUO

DEMISE, KING OF ARMAGEDDON

DESTINY HERO – DISK COMMANDER

DIMENSION FUSION

ERADICATOR EPIDEMIC VIRUS

EVIL HERO DARK GAIA

EXCHANGE OF THE SPIRIT

EXODIA THE FORBIDDEN ONE

FIBER JAR

FIVE-HEADED DRAGON

GLADIATOR BEAST GYZARUS

GOLD SARCOPHAGUS

GORZ THE EMISSARY OF DARKNESS

GOYO GARDIAN

GRACEFUL CHARITY

HARPIE’S FEATHER DUSTER

HEAVY STORM

IMPERIAL IRON WALL

IMPERIAL ORDER

INFERNO TEMPEST

JUDGMENT DRAGON

LAST TURN

LAST WILL

LIFE EQUALIZER

LIMITER REMOVAL

MAGE POWER

MAGIC CYLINDER

MAGICAL EXPLOSION

MAGICAL SCIENTIST

MAKYURA THE DESTRUCTOR

MEGAMORPH

MIND MASTER

MIRAGE OF NIGHTMARE

MORPHING JAR

MONSTER REBORN

NOBLEMAN OF CROSSOUT

PAINFUL CHOICE

POT OF GREED

POT OF GREEDEROSITY

POWER BOND

PREMATURE BURIAL

RAIGEKI

REKINDLING

RETURN FROM THE DIFFERENT DIMENSION

RESCUE CAT

REVERSAL QUIZ

RING OF DESTRUCTION

SANGAN

SELF-DESTRUCT BUTTON

SINISTER SERPENT

SIXTH SENSE

SKY SCOURGE NORLERAS

SNATCH STEAL

SNIPE HUNTER

STARDUST DRAGON

SUPERANCIENT DEEPSEA KING COELACANTH

THE FORCEFUL SENTRY

THOUSAND-EYES RESTRICT

TIME SEAL

TREEBORN FROG

TRIBE-INFECTING VIRUS

TSUKUYOMI

ULTIMATE OFFERING

UNITED WE STAND

VICTORY DRAGON

WAVE-MOTION CANNON

WITCH OF THE BLACK FOREST

WULF, LIGHTSWORN BEAST

YATA-GARASU

 

NEW! – All-Out Attacks, Arcana Force EX - The Dark Ruler, Arcana Force XXI – The World, Armed Samurai – Ben-Kei, Battle Mania, Black Whirlwind, Blackwing Armor Master, Brain Control, Breaker the Magical Warrior, Brionic, Dragon of the Ice Barrier, Call of the Hunted, Celestia, Lightsworn Angel, Chaos Sorcerer, Chimeratech Fortress Dragon, Chimeratech Overdragon, Cyber Dragon, Cyber End Dragon, Cyber Twin Dragon, Dark Armed Dragon, Darklord Zerato, Deck Devastation Virus, Demise, King of Armageddon, Eradicator Epidemic Virus, Evil Hero Dark Gaia, Exodia the Forbidden One, Five Headed Dragon, Gladiator Beast Gyzarus, Gorz the Emissary of Darkness, Goyo Guardian, Heavy Storm, Imperial Iron Wall, Inferno Tempest, Judgment Dragon, Life Equalizer, Limiter Removal, Mage Power, Magic Cylinder, Magical Explosion, Megamorph, Mind Master Morphing Jar, Nobleman of Crossout, Pot of Greederosity Power Bond, Rekindling, Return from the Different Dimension, Rescue Cat, Reversal Quiz, Sangan, Self-Destruct Button, Sky Scourge Norleras, Snipe Hunter, Stardust Dragon, Superancient Deepsea King Coelacanth, Treeborn Frog, Ultimate Offering, United We Stand, Wave-Motion Cannon, Wulf, Lightsworn Beast

 

II. Limited Cards

 

ARCANA FORCE 0 - THE FOOL

CARD DESTRUCTION

CARD TROOPER

CEASEFIRE

CHAIN STRIKE

DESTINY HERO - MALICIOUS

ELEMENTAL HERO STRATOS

GIANT TRUNADE

GREEN BABOON, DEFENDER OF THE FOREST

MARSHMALLON

MIRROR FORCE

NIGHT ASSAILANT

SPIRIT REAPER

SWORDS OF REVEALING LIGHT

 

NEW! – Arcana Force 0 - The Fool, Destiny Hero – Malicious, Chain Strike

 

III. Semi-Limited Cards

 

None

 

NEW! – None

 

NEW! – The following cards are no longer Limited: Advanced Ritual Art, Book of Moon, Cathedral of Nobles, D.D. Warrior Lady, Dandylion, Fissure, Foolish Burial, Future Fusion, Gold Sarcophagus, Gravity Bind, Jinzo, Left Arm of the Forbidden One, Left Leg of the Forbidden One, Level Limit - Area B, Magician of Faith, Magical Stone Excavation, Manticore of Darkness, Mask of Darkness, Metamorphosis, Mind Crush, Monster Gate, Mystical Space Typhoon, Necroface, Neo-Spacian Grand Mole, Ojama Trio, Overload Fusion, Phantom of Chaos, Raiza the Storm Monarch, Reasoning, Right Arm of the Forbidden One, Right Leg of the Forbidden One, Scapegoat, Smashing Ground, Summon Priest, The Transmigration Prophecy, Torrential Tribute, Trap Dustshoot, Twin-Headed Behemoth, Wall of Revealing Light

 

 

 

Have fun

[/quote']

 

I do have a couple of placements that I disagree with, but unlimiting generic perma-stall with Final Countdown(which is another card that should be banned) at 3? Even without Countdown, they're all bad for the game and should go to 0.

[CrabHelmet]

Ah, yes, I remember that now. That argument is still decent when applied to combo OTKs, but it works a lot better when applied to things like Arcana Force EX - The Dark Ruler, which is what I seem to remember I was gearing it towards.

 

Well, then, I guess I did say that. >.>

[Tronta]

I tried to prevent 4 Card or less OTKs. I don't think I went too far out of line on that' date=' I always got rid of the least competitive card when damaging one.[/quote']

 

I think a while ago it was decided that 4 card OTKs that required ridiculous set up or ridiculously awful decks in order for them to work right were actually beneficial for the game. The logic being that anyone who believed running such inconsistent cards that are all so horrible on their own were worth running together is a bad duelist, and a banlist is supposed to make sure bad duelists lose more often.

 

I don't think that was "decided" so much as "Crab Helmet said it, and nobody applied any original thought to the statement."

 

rep'd.

why? because he's one of the few people on this forum who recognize that whenever crab opens his mouth, someone runs to carve whatever comes out into stone and shout it from the rooftops as if it were the word of motherfucking god.

 

i seriously believe crab could just come in here one day and start spouting something completely and utterly false and it will be praised as inarguable truth in it's purest form.

 

and the next day, for whatever reason, amazoness would be the meta.

[werewolfjedi]

Do you even know how to play the game? That banlist is probably one of the worst I have ever seen.

 

I don't know who the hell you are' date=' but to come out of nowhere and make such a bold accusation is pretty damn rude. I don't think on the level of Atem, I don't doubt he could punch holes through it (Even though it is wildly swayed by his banlist), but the amount of thought put into this at least deserves a little more respect. Despite all of this, the fact that you chose blatantly overpowered cards as opposed to the more controversial ones makes me inclined to believe you're bad at the game.

 

As for me' date=' I'd probably screw up the banlist.[/quote']

 

Considering your thoughts on Breaker, Exodia, Gorz, Morphing Jar, Return from the Different Dimension, Tragoedia, Dustshoot, Treeborn Frog, Heavy Storm and several other cards I think that's an absolute given...

 

Though I'll admit parts of SephirothKirby's list are straight out of WTF-ville too.

 

I tried to prevent 4 Card or less OTKs. I don't think I went too far out of line on that, I always got rid of the least competitive card when damaging one. I admit, that may have changed greatly, as I have not paid attention to the game as of ABPF, but I feel mostly confident on a lot of my decisions. I allow myself to be persuaded if a great argument comes my way, though.

 

2 things:

a) I havent seem atem make a post for at least 6 months (doesn't mean he isn't still around, he might have been doing the same as you.)

 

b) explain how breaker is part of a 4 card otk. and please don't say he is over powered, he is the only real offense early game you get for a citadel deck, unless, of course, you wish to force my sytle to change to: spam arcanite, exsplosive, and tempest magician(s) all day, (and honestly, that's no fun.)

 

I mean, breaker, defender, and the others I use basicly just make it worse everytime you try to use magic aganist magic users, and it shouldn't work, if you think about it themeaticly.

[Tronta]

citadel definitely has access to skilled dm and crusader.

[Sephiroth_The_Legend]

Here:

[spoiler=Awesome List]

BANNED:

 

PETIT MOTH

LARVAE MOTH

COCOON OF EVOLUTION

GREAT MOTH

PERFECTLY ULTIMATE GREAT MOTH

SHAPESNATCH

KURIBOH

 

LIMITED:

 

THOUSAND-EYES RESTRICT

 

SEMI LIMITED:

 

None

 

NO LONGER ON LIST:

 

Everything.

 

 

In all honesty though, i would leave it as is, perhaps throw Brionac on there with JD and DAD and limit Tsukuyomi and Magician of Faith and Metamorphasis.

[Manjoume Thunder]

Newly banned:

Infernity Launcher

Infernity Mirage

+

Newly limited:

Nothing

+

Newly semi-limited:

Dark Hole

Nothing

+

Newly unimited:

Nothing

=

Great format.

 

NOTE: I am not saying that Infernities will be broken, but they will become even more popular than last format's LS and this will ruin the format.

[werewolfjedi]

citadel definitely has access to skilled dm and crusader.

 

and what do I use the counters for? endymion is too expentsive to rely on, he is a last resort.

6 counters is 3000 damage for tempest, who is in the end much easier to summon.

defender buys time, exemplar summons what I need, and breaker solves problems, and outside of this deck, he is a piece of crap now.

1600 ATK doesn't do enough anymore in battle, and while 1900 is fine, then you run right into the facedowns, which they will activate since breaker is right there, threatening their destruction.

 

beatsticks aren't needed in this deck as much as spell and trap destruction is. how many cards do most decks run to kill facedowns?

 

I see no less than 2 most of the time, heavy and mst. which, frankly, is no where near enough.

breaker isn't uniformaly used, as a matter of fact, generic destruction that can target monster or magic is more widely used than just s/t killers, and I see them used on s/t's more than monsters.

it's because the spells and traps people use are more important then people seem to realise.

 

and it's why I say that soildarty has won more games for me than any one monster has.

[Tronta]

your assertion:

b) explain how breaker is part of a 4 card otk. and please don't say he is over powered' date=' [b']he is the only real offense early game you get for a citadel deck[/b], unless, of course, you wish to force my sytle to change to: spam arcanite, exsplosive, and tempest magician(s) all day, (and honestly, that's no fun.)

 

my refutation:

citadel definitely has access to skilled dm and crusader.

 

 

your argument is mostly tangential to the current one.

counters and blah are unimportant. the point was that citadel decks have early game beaters.

[werewolfjedi]

your assertion:

b) explain how breaker is part of a 4 card otk. and please don't say he is over powered' date=' [b']he is the only real offense early game you get for a citadel deck[/b], unless, of course, you wish to force my sytle to change to: spam arcanite, exsplosive, and tempest magician(s) all day, (and honestly, that's no fun.)

 

my refutation:

citadel definitely has access to skilled dm and crusader.

 

 

your argument is mostly tangential to the current one.

counters and blah are unimportant. the point was that citadel decks have early game beaters.

 

the f-ing counters are critical to the deck, or I'dd run cyber dragon over all 3.

[~Kefka~]

put Ring of Destruction back at 1

 

it would make so many of us happy

[Zektor]

ied screw it up pretty badly to

[Tronta]

your assertion:

b) explain how breaker is part of a 4 card otk. and please don't say he is over powered' date=' [b']he is the only real offense early game you get for a citadel deck[/b], unless, of course, you wish to force my sytle to change to: spam arcanite, exsplosive, and tempest magician(s) all day, (and honestly, that's no fun.)

 

my refutation:

citadel definitely has access to skilled dm and crusader.

 

 

your argument is mostly tangential to the current one.

counters and blah are unimportant. the point was that citadel decks have early game beaters.

 

the f-ing counters are critical to the deck' date=' or I'dd run cyber dragon over all 3.

[/quote']

 

my point was that you have access to beaters who fit the theme of the deck by generating counters.

[.dek]

Here:

[spoiler=Awesome List]

BANNED:

 

PETIT MOTH

LARVAE MOTH

COCOON OF EVOLUTION

GREAT MOTH

PERFECTLY ULTIMATE GREAT MOTH

SHAPESNATCH

KURIBOH

 

LIMITED:

 

THOUSAND-EYES RESTRICT

 

SEMI LIMITED:

 

None

 

NO LONGER ON LIST:

 

Everything.

 

 

In all honesty though' date=' i would leave it as is, perhaps throw Brionac on there with JD and DAD and limit Tsukuyomi and Magician of Faith and Metamorphasis.

[/quote']You forgot http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Larva_of_Moth and http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Pupa_of_Moth

[Sephiroth_The_Legend]

put Ring of Destruction back at 1

 

it would make so many of us happy

 

Oooo and i believe Imperial Order should come back as well

 

 

Here:

[spoiler=Awesome List]

BANNED:

 

PETIT MOTH

LARVAE MOTH

COCOON OF EVOLUTION

GREAT MOTH

PERFECTLY ULTIMATE GREAT MOTH

SHAPESNATCH

KURIBOH

 

LIMITED:

 

THOUSAND-EYES RESTRICT

 

SEMI LIMITED:

 

None

 

NO LONGER ON LIST:

 

Everything.

 

 

In all honesty though' date=' i would leave it as is, perhaps throw Brionac on there with JD and DAD and limit Tsukuyomi and Magician of Faith and Metamorphasis.

[/quote']You forgot http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Larva_of_Moth and http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Pupa_of_Moth

 

No, they're not really part of the Petit Moth chain. So they're ok. Perfectly acceptable.

[werewolfjedi]

your assertion:

b) explain how breaker is part of a 4 card otk. and please don't say he is over powered' date=' [b']he is the only real offense early game you get for a citadel deck[/b], unless, of course, you wish to force my sytle to change to: spam arcanite, exsplosive, and tempest magician(s) all day, (and honestly, that's no fun.)

 

my refutation:

citadel definitely has access to skilled dm and crusader.

 

 

your argument is mostly tangential to the current one.

counters and blah are unimportant. the point was that citadel decks have early game beaters.

 

the f-ing counters are critical to the deck' date=' or I'dd run cyber dragon over all 3.

[/quote']

 

my point was that you have access to beaters who fit the theme of the deck by generating counters.

 

to use with what? which part of my point. breaker is one of the few lower level monsters I can play that has a useful effect that uses them, not just creates them, which really is the problem. we need more decent lower level spell counter effect users.

[Tronta]

ah. well thats more developed than what you said before. or at least more concise.

 

theres always defender.

[werewolfjedi]

ah. well thats more developed than what you said before. or at least more concise.

 

theres always defender.

 

ran at 3.

it is kick ass.

[Scatty]

Battle Fader. God damn Battle Fader...

[Flame Dragon]

Battle Fader. God damn Battle Fader...

 

What is wrong with Battle Fader?