FTK

[Jonnyfive]

Exodia shouldn't be called an FTK.

There is no killing involved unless you run chainsaw insect for appropriate....but thats not for the lifepoint damage anyways

I think it should be unnofficially renamed the exodia FTW

I really shouldn't have to explain that.

agree? dissagree?

discuss

disgusted? if so just discuss your favorite FTK's

[RyanAtlus]

Holy cheese on a fresh sandwihc with ketchup on top.

 

This topic would be usefull if it discussed FTK's in general. Which it does right... now.

[Jonnyfive]

Holy cheese on a fresh sandwihc with ketchup on top.

 

This topic would be usefull if it discussed FTK's in general. Which it does right... now.

 

i left it open.

suppose i should have been clearer...to the dashboard!

[The Sacred Ninja]

FTK may have high success rates, but they really aren't very fun.

[byak]

Frogs

[evilfusion]

FTK and OTK are probably named as such because when you win, your opponent "dies". It doesn't take much stretch of the imagination to assume that, in a scenario where the cards/monsters are waging battle in a duel, that win conditions inevitably involve your opponent "dying". Exactly what does Exodia DO, per se, in a scenario such as a "Real" duel?

 

According to the anime, he is summoned, creates a ball of destruction, and OBLITERATES the opponent's field and them. Thus...killing them and making their LP 0. The art of Final Countdown gives enough of an idea to assume that win condition involves the opponent dying too. Vennominaga evidently poisons the opponent and that will kill them (anime: 3 turns later). We don't know what Destiny Board will do precisely, but the original anime had it spelling out DEATH so...

 

LP: 0 is the near universal symbol of a player losing a duel, whether the LP was actually depleted using damage or not. Thus the "K" remains to mean "Kill". You kill your opponent to win the duel.

 

Ahem...on topic.

 

FTKs are cheap, but almost all of them involve exploiting some sort of loop that makes it disturbingly tedious to actually perform, making them really poor video game decks or duel simulator decks and dull as hell to play against if they managed to get their combo rolling.

[Dr. Cakey]

FTK may have high success rates' date=' but they really aren't very fun.

[/quote']

 

Well, FTKs don't FTK very often, but they usually OTK. Also...

 

God Bird of Doom

[~Kefka~]

FTK's are boring, what's the point in dueling if there's no real challange to it?

 

Crystal Abundance OTK, Stardust and Starlight Road be afraid.......be very afraid

[-Griffin]

FTKs are just playing with yourself. It's nothing like playing with someone else.

[meowyultimate]

Ftks makes the Format a new type of format with a new way of playing

The Dice Format.

Format: Who ever wins the dice wins 80% of the time.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

Exodia shouldn't be called an FTK.

There is no killing involved

 

1: This implies you think the 'K' in FTK and OTK stand for Kill. Some say it does. Some say it stands for 'Knockout'. Both are equally valid in my humble opinion.

2: It's not about the monster being killed, it's about the opponent being killed. If your opponent doesn't set a monster, and on your turn you Heavy Storm, and Power Bond Cyber Twin Dragon for game, is that not an OTK, despite not "no killing involved"?

 

 

tl;dr - Lolsemantics

[Tronta]

ftk's are actually incredibly challenging. not as much on the playing side, but much more so on the deck construction side. with an ftk, every card in your deck must be honed to a specific purpose. there is little to no room for error or bad card choice, every single card needs to be perfect. numbers must be carefully measured and tested over and over again in order to increase consistency by even a sliver. giant libraries worth of cards need to be overturned, looking for tech and other benefits toward the deck that might be found in the most obscure corners of yugioh (guard penalty and monster recovery are great examples of this, for my trolls and exodia deck, respectively). the actual construction process seems trivial, but if you want to make it competitive, it's excruciating. i can't tell you how many hours i've sat there, staring at my flip trolls spread over the floor, trying to balance numbers and advantage and scenarios in my mind, evaluating each card over and over again.

 

it's rewarding though. to see all that effort pay off when your opponent doesn't get a turn and looks at you like you're the biggest dick on the planet. ftks are also pretty damn cheap. so there's that, too.

 

 

 

ftks that rely on an exploitation suck balls though. like the butterfly dagger loop. that sheet is banworthy and gay.

[Jonnyfive]

FTK and OTK are probably named as such because when you win' date=' your opponent "dies". It doesn't take much stretch of the imagination to assume that, in a scenario where the cards/monsters are waging battle in a duel, that win conditions inevitably involve your opponent "dying". Exactly what does Exodia DO, per se, in a scenario such as a "Real" duel?

 

According to the anime, he is summoned, creates a ball of destruction, and OBLITERATES the opponent's field and them. Thus...killing them and making their LP 0. The art of Final Countdown gives enough of an idea to assume that win condition involves the opponent dying too. Vennominaga evidently poisons the opponent and that will kill them (anime: 3 turns later). We don't know what Destiny Board will do precisely, but the original anime had it spelling out DEATH so...

 

LP: 0 is the near universal symbol of a player losing a duel, whether the LP was actually depleted using damage or not. Thus the "K" remains to mean "Kill". You kill your opponent to win the duel.

 

Ahem...on topic.

 

FTKs are cheap, but almost all of them involve exploiting some sort of loop that makes it disturbingly tedious to actually perform, making them really poor video game decks or duel simulator decks and dull as hell to play against if they managed to get their combo rolling.

[/quote']

 

but in a practical sense..the card says Win.

IMO Kill should be associated with ridding your opponent of their life, not simply winning the duel.

---

Exodia shouldn't be called an FTK.

There is no killing involved

 

1: This implies you think the 'K' in FTK and OTK stand for Kill. Some say it does. Some say it stands for 'Knockout'. Both are equally valid in my humble opinion.

2: It's not about the monster being killed' date=' it's about the opponent being killed. If your opponent doesn't set a monster, and on your turn you Heavy Storm, and Power Bond Cyber Twin Dragon for game, is that not an OTK, despite not "no killing involved"?

 

 

tl;dr - Lolsemantics

[/quote']

 

you are taking away their life(points) and thereby killing them

---

ftk's are actually incredibly challenging. not as much on the playing side' date=' but much more so on the deck construction side. with an ftk, every card in your deck must be honed to a specific purpose. there is little to no room for error or bad card choice, every [b']single[/b] card needs to be perfect. numbers must be carefully measured and tested over and over again in order to increase consistency by even a sliver. giant libraries worth of cards need to be overturned, looking for tech and other benefits toward the deck that might be found in the most obscure corners of yugioh (guard penalty and monster recovery are great examples of this, for my trolls and exodia deck, respectively). the actual construction process seems trivial, but if you want to make it competitive, it's excruciating. i can't tell you how many hours i've sat there, staring at my flip trolls spread over the floor, trying to balance numbers and advantage and scenarios in my mind, evaluating each card over and over again.

 

it's rewarding though. to see all that effort pay off when your opponent doesn't get a turn and looks at you like you're the biggest dick on the planet. ftks are also pretty damn cheap. so there's that, too.

 

 

 

ftks that rely on an exploitation suck balls though. like the butterfly dagger loop. that s*** is banworthy and gay.

 

butterfly dagger is banned is it not?

[evilfusion]

Ah, you evidently do try to envision the game of Yugioh entirely as a game with pieces of cardboard, rather than allowing your imagination to work with the game concepts and mechanics in a way that makes sense in the universe the game works in. LIFEpoints going to 0 implies death of the opponent. Their life energy ran out. It's the main win condition, killing your opponent. Decking out is the only "loss" condition that I don't have an explanation for regarding death. (Your deck is your soul? Soul Absorbing Bone Tower seems to suggest that...)

[Tronta]

@johnnyfive

yes, butterfly dagger is banned. i suppose the implication of me saying 'this is banworthy' would be that it currently is not banned. however, it is. i was just reaffirming the bannability of a controlled loop that lets you draw out your entire deck.

[Expelsword]

FTKs are absolutely horrible... they make me sit around while you just loop the same things over and over until you win and I cannot do ANYTHING else...

 

ZTKs are hilarious though, I can support them

[Jonnyfive]

Ah' date=' you evidently do try to envision the game of Yugioh entirely as a game with pieces of cardboard, rather than allowing your imagination to work with the game concepts and mechanics in a way that makes sense in the universe the game works in. [b']LIFE[/b]points going to 0 implies death of the opponent. Their life energy ran out. It's the main win condition, killing your opponent. Decking out is the only "loss" condition that I don't have an explanation for regarding death. (Your deck is your soul? Soul Absorbing Bone Tower seems to suggest that...)

 

no, i invision death at 0 LP, i made that clear

and if there is a heart of the cards, when you run out of cards, you no longer have a heart...and die.

exodia just says, I win...damn

when in the show did an exodia win kill anyone? can't remember if it did astor...thought exodius might have done him in...idk

[evilfusion]

Episode 1, Yugi vs Kaiba. Exodia obliterated the 3 Blue Eyes White Dragons and Kaiba's LP became 0.

 

Episode...not sure. Rare Hunter summoned Exodia, which Obliterated Joey's Red Eyes and turned his LP to 0.

 

Not a literal kill in the show, but it turned the LP to 0. Which by our definitions, not only solidified the concept of loss, but demonstrated it "killing them".

 

What I mean is that win conditions all seem like they would logically "kill" or turn your opponent's LP to 0. Final Countdown shows some sort of demon forming when the 20 circles of flame are lit. Destiny Board (original anime) spells out DEATH. Maybe it summons spirits to kill the opponent. Exodius unseals Exodia. It personally doesn't do anything. (Exodia itself killed Aster, via Exodius' effect). Vennominaga does the poisoning thing.

 

Even the anime "I don't lose effects" seem to revolve around staying alive by proxy. Relay soul implants your "soul" into another monster. Divine Serpent does the same. I don't have a clue what Infernity Zero is meant to do, but it counts down 3 Death Counters that will then kill it, thus killing you.

 

YAY! Post 1000!

[Kyosuke Kiryu]

Frogs are the only consistant FTK.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

Good FTK may have high success rates' date=' but they really aren't very fun.

[/quote']

 

Fix'd and this. That's why I stay away from FTKs. Out of all the things that are bad for the game, FTKs are probably the worst since they take away the most important element of the game. The game itself. Even if they are challenging or require skill, they shouldn't be allowed to exist (of course banning the main cards in said FTK is the only way that can be achieved).

[Dr. Cakey]

I guess there's a difference between an FTK and an OTK that has the potential to FTK. For example:

 

-A bajillion draw cards attempting to pull Wall of Revealing Light, Life Equalizer, and Blasting the Ruins = fail

 

-Hoping to draw the three necessary parts God Bird of Doom on your first turn = still awful, and Birdman should probably go to 1, but not ridiculous

 

Let's see, what ZTK/NTKs are there?

-Exodia

-Shenanigans with Makyura in Trad.

-Being Sartorius

 

EDIT: And for gods sake, Exodia is very clearly slaughtering your opponent. Episode 1 and ? of Yu-Gi-Oh!, and Episode ? of Yu-Gi-Oh! GX. It also happens in the World Championships. Other hints as to Exodia's destructive power include: "Exodia...OBLITERATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and/or "EXXOD HELL FLARE!!!!!!!!!!!"

If you prefer, pretend Exodia has this effect: "If this card, "Right Arm of the Forbidden One", "Left Arm of the Forbidden One", "Right Leg of the Forbidden One", and "Left Leg of the Forbidden One" are in your hand, send all cards your opponent controls to the Graveyard and inflict INFINITY damage to your opponent. Then your opponent's Life Points become 0.

Final Countdown plays Final Countdown after 20 turns, forcing your opponent to surrender. Destiny Board spells "FAIL", causing your opponent to lol at your wit and surrender from the hilarity of it. Vennominaga poisons your opponent, as seen in Episode ? of Yu-Gi-Oh! GX.

[evilfusion]

I agree that FTKs are boring. They're horrible for the game and just...they're just not fun. There are some decks I just can't stand using because there's no joy in the victory at all. The novelty wears off like...after 2 duels. Unless you're a soulless creature who enjoys victory above everything else, no one can truly argue that an FTK is the worst type of deck in the spirit of the game.

 

Though I think Tronta's deck would be more fun to wield than Frog FTK.

[Tronta]

my decks are usually a lot of fun.

 

anyway, jd is right, but with one caveat: there is a lot more than just ftks wrong with this stupid game.

 

 

also,

ztks/ntks? zero/no turn kills? what?

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

RIBBIT RIBBIT RIBBIT

[evilfusion]

Heh, a No/Zero Turn kill is winning without having a turn. It's a FTK during your opponent's turn. Of course, there's precious few ways to accomplish this, one involving Makyura shenanigans or having the five Exodia parts in your opening hand. Or being Sartorius, who more or less created the Zero-Turn Kill by OTKing without having a turn himself.

 

Unfortunately, with Special Summoning becoming such an important aspect of the game and so much focus on it, the speed is inevitably a side effect of the game changing. How would you correct something like that?