FTK

[Dr. Cakey]

my decks are usually a lot of fun.

 

anyway' date=' jd is right, but with one caveat: there is a lot more than just ftks wrong with this stupid game.

 

 

also,

ztks/ntks? zero/no turn kills? what?

[/quote']

 

NTKs aren't actually played, but it's a theoretically possible event. Obviously you can draw all 5 pieces of Exodia, winning before your Draw Phase.

The Wiki presents this as well: If your opponent goes first and causes you to discard Makyura the Destructor, then summons a monster with 4000+ ATK, you can activate Ring of Destruction followed by Blast Behind the Door. Proceed to lol @ how ridiculous this is.

[The Sacred Ninja]

my decks are usually a lot of fun.

 

anyway' date=' jd is right, but with one caveat: there is a lot more than just ftks wrong with this stupid game.

 

 

also,

ztks/ntks? zero/no turn kills? what?

[/quote']

 

NTKs aren't actually played, but it's a theoretically possible event. Obviously you can draw all 5 pieces of Exodia, winning before your Draw Phase.

The Wiki presents this as well: If your opponent goes first and causes you to discard Makyura the Destructor, then summons a monster with 4000+ ATK, you can activate Ring of Destruction followed by Blast Behind the Door. Proceed to lol @ how ridiculous this is.

 

This can actually happen if your opponent tries to do the Faultroll loop, but plays Double Summon and then tribute Faultroll and the 2 X-sabers for Obelisk.

 

I would die of laughter if I ever saw that

[evilfusion]

my decks are usually a lot of fun.

 

anyway' date=' jd is right, but with one caveat: there is a lot more than just ftks wrong with this stupid game.

 

 

also,

ztks/ntks? zero/no turn kills? what?

[/quote']

 

NTKs aren't actually played, but it's a theoretically possible event. Obviously you can draw all 5 pieces of Exodia, winning before your Draw Phase.

The Wiki presents this as well: If your opponent goes first and causes you to discard Makyura the Destructor, then summons a monster with 4000+ ATK, you can activate Ring of Destruction followed by Blast Behind the Door. Proceed to lol @ how ridiculous this is.

 

This can actually happen if your opponent tries to do the Faultroll loop, but plays Double Summon and then tribute Faultroll and the 2 X-sabers for The Wicked Dreadroot.

 

I would die of laughter if I ever saw that

 

Fixed. Obelisk can't be targetted.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

anyway' date=' jd is right, but with one caveat: there is a lot more than just ftks wrong with this stupid game.[/quote']

 

Of course there is. I just mentioned FTKs since this topic is about FTKs.

[Tronta]

@evil fusion

in order to correct the idiotic speed of this meta, i would impose ridiculously overbearing banlists that cripple recent archetypes to the speed of gadget-monarchs. then i would introduce new archetypes that dont blow and arent broken. :P

or just institute a limit on specials per turn...

[evilfusion]

Hmm...yeah, that might be a bit too restrictive. Also, creating archetypes that aren't sucky or broken is significantly harder than one might expect. The game evolves and for newer archetypes to match up, they have to be a bit stronger or have qualities that will give some sort of advantage without a crippling disadvantage.

 

Not quite the topic to discuss things like that, though.

[Tronta]

but thats the problem! if they keep making them stronger and stronger they leave the past behind and everything just gets faster and stupider.

[evilfusion]

And if they don't make them stronger, they're trash and little more. To make a diverse metagame, several decktypes and archetypes need to be able to hold their own against one another. During testing of the metagame, they discover which decks are too powerful and limit their power by limits or bans. You can't expect Konami to crack down on every card that makes the game fast or is abusable. You have to draw a line at some point. It's just not good from either a business standpoint or a gaming standpoint.

 

Would you like it if a lot of decks were absolutely crippled by an overrestrictive banlist? If you kill every card that can be consider cheap, overpowered, abusable, or so on, you won't have much left to work with. On the other hand, you can't have easy FTKs flying around either. OTKs get their power limited by restricting the draw cards to some extent, and decks lacking in draw power have to find some way to speed up to match the decks that do have draw power. And cards that are too generic are broken. Pot of Greed, for example, is generic and gives draw power. But it's too good.

 

To restrict a card's speed, they have the +0 draws, like Trade-In and Destiny Draw, but Destiny Draw became part of a draw engine around Destiny Heroes and then had to be restricted for game diversity, so that not every deck needs to run the D-Hero Draw Engine to function.

 

There's so many ways to go around card and archetype creation, but there has to be some way to level the field. Infernity was undersupported at first, and TSHD was doing okay with adding support, but they have that insanely broken loop with Launcher. They were doing well with themed support that was strong enough to keep up...then they made Launcher and screwed the metagame up.

 

X-Sabers were undersupported, and now they're flying with the best of them...and Infernity. To make a theme good, it has to keep up with the rest, and they can't keep throwing garbage cards and themes into the mix because barely anyone will touch them compared to what they know works. PTDN is probably when the game got "stupid" fast. Then Synchros came out.

[Kyosuke Kiryu]

RIBBIT RIBBIT RIBBIT

 

THIS GENTLEMAN SPEAKS THE TRUTH.

[DARKPLANT RISING]

Exodia shouldn't be called an FTK.

There is no killing involved unless you run chainsaw insect for appropriate....but thats not for the lifepoint damage anyways

I think it should be unnofficially renamed the exodia FTW

I really shouldn't have to explain that.

agree? dissagree?

discuss

disgusted? if so just discuss your favorite FTK's

 

Wrong.

You know about Library Exodia?

 

Anyways, that is my favorite FTK, if it's called one. Library Exodia... guess what it is.

[Azuh]

FTKs are just playing with yourself. It's nothing like playing with someone else.

 

;)

[Kyosuke Kiryu]

FTKs are just playing with yourself. It's nothing like playing with someone else.

 

;)

 

giggity goo!

[Chaos Flame]

FTKs are just playing with yourself. It's nothing like playing with someone else.

 

;)

 

giggity goo!

 

Thats why I lika FTK (as soon as I get the right cards to finish my tempest OTK deck) on wc10, your essentially playing against yourself anyway...

[Tronta]

And if they don't make them stronger' date=' they're trash and little more. To make a diverse metagame, several decktypes and archetypes need to be able to hold their own against one another. During testing of the metagame, they discover which decks are too powerful and limit their power by limits or bans. You can't expect Konami to crack down on every card that makes the game fast or is abusable. You have to draw a line at some point. It's just not good from either a business standpoint or a gaming standpoint.

 

Would you like it if a lot of decks were absolutely crippled by an overrestrictive banlist? If you kill every card that can be consider cheap, overpowered, abusable, or so on, you won't have much left to work with. On the other hand, you can't have easy FTKs flying around either. OTKs get their power limited by restricting the draw cards to some extent, and decks lacking in draw power have to find some way to speed up to match the decks that do have draw power. And cards that are too generic are broken. Pot of Greed, for example, is generic and gives draw power. But it's too good.

 

To restrict a card's speed, they have the +0 draws, like Trade-In and Destiny Draw, but Destiny Draw became part of a draw engine around Destiny Heroes and then had to be restricted for game diversity, so that not every deck needs to run the D-Hero Draw Engine to function.

 

There's so many ways to go around card and archetype creation, but there has to be some way to level the field. Infernity was undersupported at first, and TSHD was doing okay with adding support, but they have that insanely broken loop with Launcher. They were doing well with themed support that was strong enough to keep up...then they made Launcher and screwed the metagame up.

 

X-Sabers were undersupported, and now they're flying with the best of them...and Infernity. To make a theme good, it has to keep up with the rest, and they can't keep throwing garbage cards and themes into the mix because barely anyone will touch them compared to what they know works. PTDN is probably when the game got "stupid" fast. Then Synchros came out.

[/quote']

 

i could easily expect konami to balance the game under one condition:

if they release new banlists at least as frequently as they release new sets.

DERPAMOTHERFUCKINGDERRRRRRRP

 

seriously, half the problem is that between banlists they release what? 2 or 3 sets? that's retarded.

 

so here's the scenario: banlist hits, meta is shaken, it builds into a slow form of its former self. weaker deck types become more prolific, etc. set one hits, and it has two possible outcomes. it's either worse than the current meta, in which case in set 2 konami will overcompensate in order to try and provide useful cards, or it's more powerful than the current meta, in which case in set 2 konami will release even stronger cards in order to keep up with the previous set. and it only gets worse at set 3. so by the time the banlist hits, it's trying to clean up 3 or so funked up sets, but because the banlist doesn't give a sheet about fixing its own problems, it only bans what's in the current meta, which is easily a league way above the last meta. so what happens? the new shakey meta that forms after the second banlist is faster and more powerful than the last shakey meta, and new sets will only introduce faster and stronger bullshit to keep up. rinse/repeat.

 

plus, the idiots just don't understand their own game. how could they not imagine what would happen with launcher? or machina fortress? or the faultroll loop? i expect the creators of the cards to sit down with said cards and play a few funking games with them, before releasing them. they don't. or at least they don't put any thought into it. or they just don't care.

[RyanAtlus]

And if they don't make them stronger' date=' they're trash and little more. To make a diverse metagame, several decktypes and archetypes need to be able to hold their own against one another. During testing of the metagame, they discover which decks are too powerful and limit their power by limits or bans. You can't expect Konami to crack down on every card that makes the game fast or is abusable. You have to draw a line at some point. It's just not good from either a business standpoint or a gaming standpoint.

 

Would you like it if a lot of decks were absolutely crippled by an overrestrictive banlist? If you kill every card that can be consider cheap, overpowered, abusable, or so on, you won't have much left to work with. On the other hand, you can't have easy FTKs flying around either. OTKs get their power limited by restricting the draw cards to some extent, and decks lacking in draw power have to find some way to speed up to match the decks that do have draw power. And cards that are too generic are broken. Pot of Greed, for example, is generic and gives draw power. But it's too good.

 

To restrict a card's speed, they have the +0 draws, like Trade-In and Destiny Draw, but Destiny Draw became part of a draw engine around Destiny Heroes and then had to be restricted for game diversity, so that not every deck needs to run the D-Hero Draw Engine to function.

 

There's so many ways to go around card and archetype creation, but there has to be some way to level the field. Infernity was undersupported at first, and TSHD was doing okay with adding support, but they have that insanely broken loop with Launcher. They were doing well with themed support that was strong enough to keep up...then they made Launcher and screwed the metagame up.

 

X-Sabers were undersupported, and now they're flying with the best of them...and Infernity. To make a theme good, it has to keep up with the rest, and they can't keep throwing garbage cards and themes into the mix because barely anyone will touch them compared to what they know works. PTDN is probably when the game got "stupid" fast. Then Synchros came out.

[/quote']

 

i could easily expect konami to balance the game under one condition:

if they release new banlists at least as frequently as they release new sets.

DERPAMOTHERFUCKINGDERRRRRRRP

 

seriously, half the problem is that between banlists they release what? 2 or 3 sets? that's retarded.

 

so here's the scenario: banlist hits, meta is shaken, it builds into a slow form of its former self. weaker deck types become more prolific, etc. set one hits, and it has two possible outcomes. it's either worse than the current meta, in which case in set 2 konami will overcompensate in order to try and provide useful cards, or it's more powerful than the current meta, in which case in set 2 konami will release even stronger cards in order to keep up with the previous set. and it only gets worse at set 3. so by the time the banlist hits, it's trying to clean up 3 or so f***ed up sets, but because the banlist doesn't give a s*** about fixing its own problems, it only bans what's in the current meta, which is easily a league way above the last meta. so what happens? the new shakey meta that forms after the second banlist is faster and more powerful than the last shakey meta, and new sets will only introduce faster and stronger bullshit to keep up. rinse/repeat.

 

plus, the idiots just don't understand their own game. how could they not imagine what would happen with launcher? or machina fortress? or the faultroll loop? i expect the creators of the cards to sit down with said cards and play a few f***ing games with them, before releasing them. they don't. or at least they don't put any thought into it. or they just don't care.

 

You have a point there. But do you really think they'll care.

You're not the only one who has said: "funk this meta. I'm quitting yugioh" more than once. But you're still playing the game, right?

[Tronta]

i havent played a real game in months. at this point i'm just testing stupid deck ideas on yugiohnetwork every few weeks.

[RyanAtlus]

i havent played a real game in months. at this point i'm just testing stupid deck ideas on yugiohnetwork every few weeks.

 

You used to be awesome.

 

:'(

[evilfusion]

I personally have no idea what they were thinking with Launcher. It didn't surface in the anime, so it's not holding to the featured Infernity support. To make things worse, it has almost the EXACT SAME EFFECT as Mirage!

 

Japan releases sets faster than other countries get them, and Infernity and X-Sabers got more broken from TSHD's TCG Exclusives. Also, the Japanese metagame is different from ours, isn't it? If Japan manufactures new banlists every set, when some sets reach other countries, they'll be banned before we ever get to use them. Didn't Makyura finally get released in English, only to be banned on the spot? Or was that Exchange of the Spirit...? We got Brionac after it was limited and someone thought it'd be a good idea to let it run rampant in our metagame at 3, even though it's limited in Japan, rather than update the banlist. Yeah, THAT was smart.

 

I'm not sure whether packs returning to the 80 (Japan) and 100 (TCG) card per set was the best idea. I like that the TCG is getting former OCG exclusives each set, but they cram so much into the packs and are trying to support a variety of new and old archetypes that things get out of hand. Only through meta-testing can anyone truly determine what cards are broken or not in accordance to other, older cards and combos. Infernity support was MOSTLY balanced throughout, if not outright underwhelming. WTF were they thinking with Launcher? People knew about the loop before the set was even released. That should have gotten an emergency limit/ban like Cyber Stein did. And if Japan doesn't realize that by now, well, then they can watch as Infernity decks wreak havoc at the World Championships, and THEN see if they can ignore such a blatantly broken combo.

 

Then again, these people left JD at 2.

 

On paper, a lot of cards seem balanced or even just meh. Butterfly Dagger- Elma, on paper is a worthless card. Gearfried the Iron Knight is interesting but meh on paper. Royal Magical Library is pretty balanced on paper. The three combined= broken.

 

Then again, these people thought the Chaos Envoys were acceptable on paper, or that Yata Garasu was fine. Although, the banlist didn't exist back then, did it?

 

Now who the hell thought Ronintoadin was balanced? It would be...if Substitoad didn't exist. And Substitoad was fine until more support got released for frogs. I don't think too many people think of the impact of cards in combos, just on their own or in specifically created combos. I guess it's up to the public to learn the deadly combos and bring it to the attention of the banlist makers, who try to find a way to cut the brokenness without outright crippling every deck around.

[Tronta]

the butterfly loop was an acceptable mistake. i dont even fault them for lightsworns. they couldnt have been expected to see stuff like that coming. but sheet like the envoys, launcher, etc are just bad ideas.

 

the problem is only half releasing bad ideas. the other half is not cleaning up after the bad ideas and the good ideas that were found to be abusable. and they really funking don't.

 

and as to the whole ocg v tcg, i'm cool with cards reaching us already listed. if they need to be listed, they NEED to be listed. makyura, exchange, brionac, etc. but whats unacceptable is not listing sheet that needs to be, like brionac, and making us suffer for their mistakes.

 

this game was better run by upperdeck. seriously. at least then they can handle tcg exclusives effectively.

 

 

if they released banlists even once every 3 months, this game would be infinitely better.

 

 

oh, and as to them banning sheet that wins, it's still problematic. what if xsabers sweep the championships? does that mean infernities arent bannable? sadly, that's probably how konami will see it. we could be dealing with more formats of over powered bullshit for almost another funking year.

[evilfusion]

I'm pretty sure even Konami can't ignore Infernities this time. They noticed Lightsworn and dealt some heavy blows to them. I anticipate them doing similarly to X-Sabers and Infernity. Infernity is very easy to side against in most cases, but I always hated the justification "Just side X and no problem". If a deck is overpowered, deal with that, don't make excuses about how the broken card/combo can be stopped.

 

Every 3 months is overkill. It makes it too difficult to find the niches of cards in your deck if you have to keep shifting the cards in your deck to comply with the new list, and then start all over again to restabilize the decks. People already cry foul with the six month lists.

[Tronta]

didnt it take them a god damned year to notice lightsworn? and they still barely noticed gbs.

 

people need to shut the funk up and stop abusing the game. the reason they get so angsty is that they spend hundreds on broken cards and then cry when konami does their funking job and bans them. 3 months would be acceptable to me. and anyone who cries about it is just mad that they can't abuse their broken cards for as long. doesn't the pokemon tcg update it's banlists pretty frequently? or am i thinking of the video game...

[evilfusion]

I have absolutely no idea regarding the Pokemon TCG.

 

The cost of the game may be why I exclusively play online these days, rather than with physical cards. It hurts a lot less to have all the cards already at my disposal, for free, and only have to think of new cards to add to decks the banlist affects.

[Tronta]

they should make it cheaper. meh.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

pokemon tcg update it's banlists pretty frequently? or am i thinking of the video game...

 

Pokemon TCG is well designed and doesn't need constant banlist, but cards are added whenever it's needed. Only four cards have been banned, and only one was banned for being overpowered.

 

The Video Game is moderated by the players.

[Jonnyfive]

If you wanted to restrict the gameplay further, you could only allow the use of certain sets in a format (like magic) but that would suck.

I would never play again....ever.