Saber Hole

[Canadian]

Sabers don't even use it lol:

[center][img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100621174257/yugioh/images/f/f7/SaberHoleABPF-EN-SR-1E.jpg[/img]

Totally amazing card for an already broken archtype (maybe less now that cat is gone).

So, it's a counter, much like solemn warning, but requires you to have a saber on your field.

Yay or Nay?[/center]

[Azuh]

Not like Solemn Warning

I dont think it stops cards such as Reborn

[Buttercup]

Oppression Sabers quite like it.

[Canadian]

[quote name='Azuh' timestamp='1284300645' post='4620333']
Not like Solemn Warning

I dont think it stops cards such as Reborn
[/quote]

But you can just use it on the monster.... And since it's a counter, they don't get ignition effects.

[Manjoume Thunder]

Solemn Warning.

[Coffee Black]

I'd use Saber Hole if I ever make a Saber deck. so I guess Yay.

[Dr. Cakey]

[quote name='Canadian' timestamp='1284300884' post='4620343']
But you can just use it on the monster....
[/quote]
*facepalm*

In truth, this is an excellent card, but X-Saber's don't usually go for this kind of control, depending completely on the build. You know...I've never built Sabers before. Let me go experiment with them...

[Exiro]

[quote name='Dr. Cakey' timestamp='1284319197' post='4621413']
*facepalm*
[/quote]
Are explanations not needed anymore? Canadian's statements need improvement, but no more than your attitude.


[quote name='Canadian' timestamp='1284300884' post='4620343']
But you can just use it on the monster.... And since it's a counter, they don't get ignition effects.
[/quote]
This is not completely true. I will point out what was wrong with this post.
[list=1]
[*]You cannot use Saber Hole on the Monster summoned with Monster Reborn because it can only negate an inherent Summon. A Summon caused by another card's effect is never an inherent Summon.
[*]The fact that Ignition Effects can in this case not be activated - or rather, that priority can in this case not be declared on them - is not because Saber Hole is a Counter Trap Card. It is so because Saber Hole negates a Summon. Royal Oppression is not a counter trap yet priority cannot be declared on the Ignition Effect of a Monster whose Summon was negated by it.
[/list]

[Dr. Cakey]

[quote name='Exiro Divinus' timestamp='1284324975' post='4621798']
Are explanations not needed anymore? Canadian's statements need improvement, but no more than your attitude.
[/quote]
I thought this was ancient history since, like, the words "negate the Summon" were invented. My mistake?

More on topic, what Saber is that in the picture?

[Exiro]

[quote name='Dr. Cakey' timestamp='1284334922' post='4622407']
I thought this was ancient history since, like, the words "negate the Summon" were invented. My mistake?
[/quote]
You can't expect everyone to suddenly know this 'ancient history' and mock those who somehow don't. How Saber Hole works is not something one can be expected to learn by using mere logic; it needs to be explained. It is fine if you refuse to explain it, but disencouraging others to explain it results in a worse place with more bad players. Causing that would indeed be a mistake.

[XX Saber- Dosequis]

[quote name='Dr. Cakey' timestamp='1284334922' post='4622407']
I thought this was ancient history since, like, the words "negate the Summon" were invented. My mistake?

More on topic, what Saber is that in the picture?
[/quote]
thats uruz. his effect is when he destroys a monster he can be tributed to return the destroyed monster back to the top of your opponents deck.

im a big saber fan since back before they were broken, back when the only synchro was urbellum and gardestrike was the best way to bring out faultroll

[Also Family Friendly]

Completely unneeded.

[Buttercup]

[quote name='Also Family Friendly' timestamp='1284396717' post='4623753']
Completely unneeded.
[/quote]

It was balanced and good when it first came out. It was da bomb against Lightsworn, and Sabers didn't have tons of broken TCG support.

[darkwolf777]

[quote name='Canadian' timestamp='1284300884' post='4620343']
...And since it's a counter, they don't get ignition effects.
[/quote]

Well it has nothing to do with being a Counter Trap Card, just the fact that negating a summon occurs before the summon is successful. The timing for a card that "Negates a Summon" and a card that "Triggers to a Successful Summon" are different. Even if this wasn't a Counter Trap, they cannot call priority on an Ignition Monster Card's effect that hasn't been successfully Summoned yet.

[Canadian]

I'm learning!

But now I realize that Solemn Warning is the much more obvious choice. Wow, a topic actually proved helpful and insightful.

[Darkest Hour]

Okay...why can't this negate monsters special summoned by Monster Reborn and other similar cards? [color="#FFFFFF"]because I'm a troll[/color]

[darkwolf777]

[quote name='Darkest Hour' timestamp='1284420093' post='4624972']
Okay...why can't this negate monsters special summoned by Monster Reborn and other similar cards? [color="#FFFFFF"]because I'm a troll[/color]
[/quote]

Remember back to where I said "The timing of 'negating a summon' and something that 'triggers to a successful summon' are different.". The reason why you cannot activate Saber Hole is because you MISS THE TIMING.

Event: Player A will Normal Summon "Kuriboh"
Timing: A monster is about to be Summoned. Here, cards that can negate Summons can be activated. (Saber Hole can be activated here, but we wont for the sake of the explanation.).
Result: No cards that can negate a Summon are activated. Kuriboh is Successfully Summoned.
Event: Kuriboh is Normal Summoned Successfully.
Timing: A monster has been Normal Summoned Successfully. Here, cards that can trigger to a Normal Summon can be activated here (such as Torrential Tribute).
Result: No cards are activated. Play continues.

~~~

Now we try the same thing with Monster Reborn, Special Summoning Kuriboh from the Grave.

Event: Player A will activate Monster Reborn, targeting Kuriboh.
Timing: A Spell Card was activated. Here, you can use cards to negate Monster Reborn, or otherwise chain to that Spell Card's activation.
Result: No Cards are chained. There is a 1 Card Chain Link. The Chain Link begins resolving.
[b]Chain Link Resolution -Remember when a Chain Link is resolving, new cards cannot be activated until the chain resolves-[/b]
[i]Resolving Chain Link 1 - Monster Reborn attempts to Special Summons Kuriboh
[s]Timing: A monster is about to be Special Summoned. Here, cards that can negate Special Summons can be activated (such as Saber Hole)[/s]
Result: A chain is resolving. The timing for Saber Hole (or any card for that matter) is not correct because a chain resolving and new chains cannot start while another chain is resolving.
Event: Kuriboh is successfully Special Summoned by Monster Reborn.[/i]
[b]Chain End. Cards can now be activated as normal.[/b]
Timing: A monster was Successfully Special Summoned. Cards that chain to a successfully summon can be chained here (such as Torrential Tribute) or any chainable cards without timing restrictions....
Result: No cards are activated. Play continues.

As you can see, I had to scratch out the event listed there. Even though you would be able to activate Saber Hole normally at tha time, because Monster Reborn is still resolving, you cannot activate Saber Hole at that time. This is why cards like Saber Hole, Solemn Judgment, etc do not work to negate monsters when a card effect Special Summons them.

To say it a different way, it is too late to negate the Special Summon of a monster that was Successfully Special Summoned already during another card's resolution. By the time Monster Reborn finishes resolving, that monster is Successfully Special Summoned and is too late to negate it.

Hopefully that helps explain some things.