HaouJudai Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 hmmm stuff just got real eh? All I'll say is at a regional this past weekend I turned a machina fortress into an elemental hero gaia and there was nothing that could be done about it. You may now continue with your regularly scheduled YGO drama *munches popcorn while reading topic* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttercup Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 YCM is where its at. Goyo and Machina Fortress are better than those cards you mentioned, true. However, most of the time those monsters will be a -1 to summon, meaning the hilarious amount of removal yugioh has will go OM NOM NOM all over them. All they do is add a little bit of extra tempo and a win condition to decks that would otherwise be a bit bad, and make the game more fun. The entire game is based around some cards being better than others, and right now, these are what the majority of the community believes are balanced. Now stop being such a Mark Howard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 No, YCM is for dorks. Seriously, it is. OK, now that you gave me a straight ofrward reply, I will change my view... slightly. By 1%. I understand what you are saying, but getting rid of 1 more card is not gonna do anything bad. "I DROP THIS LEVEL 2 MACHINE! DERP!" is not gonna change much. Especially with Reborn running around now. It's not balanced, as I see only 3 people saying it is. You, Crouton, and Manjoume. Seriously, STOP CALLING ME MARK HOWARD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttercup Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 Pojo has too many people, DGZ is full of dicks. Ser Warjacksworth's Card Theory 101: Card Advantage I cba to actually write anything. http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Advantage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_advantage http://yugioh.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?id=2319 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 Dude, the internet like this is for Dorks XD OK? Your point? that does not make this card less cheap. It need to be limited. It's like DAD or JD @3: Stupid, but not as stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttercup Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 Yes, I just realised that Machina Fortress is a neutral cost field clearer, derp. Stop being so bad at the game, Mark Howard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 "OMG, I ditch this crappy card that has no real use to me, and Fortress, and I get a Fortress! YAY!" Or, better yet, "I drop this Lv. 8+ Monster, bring out Fortress, then Monster Reborn". I'm not bad at the game, I'm just saying this cardis NOT balanced. Dude, Shut up with the Mark Howard. No one knows what you are saying. You're being a failtroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 Your discussion is peculiarly aggressive and provocative at this point. It's difficult to accurately compare the mechanics of Fortress to that of Rituals or Simorgh. Simorgh comes closest because it can be Special Summoned from the hand or graveyard for a smiliar cost, but it's handled differently. Simorgh can be Special Summoned from hand for a certain cost, and it can be revived for a certain cost. The proper wording and least tedious, for that matter, to word Fortress so it can be Special Summoned from hand or grave for the same cost (8 stars of machines) is in the same line. This opens it to the legal loophole that either location is valid for Fortress to inhabit when its effect resolves. Obviously, the makers of the card knew this, because Fortress is a 7 star that requires 8. By making it 8, but Fortress 7, it guaranteed the need for you to discard an additional machine. It mostly pays for itself and that is cheap and BS. Once Fortress is destroyed or sent or whatever, the cost to revive it is much higher. It's not as cheap to revive and therefore will either cost more in hand advantage, or stay where it is. So in a way, it is designed to be a "one time" trick that can come back later if you're willing to expend the resources. Rituals are extremely slow. Comparing the mechanics to Fortress is unfair to Rituals because they were specifically designed to be hard, requiring a specific spell, a specific monster, and the tribute monsters. This is why most Rituals fell out of favor. Synchro mechanics are better compared to Rituals. Comparing effects of X card to Y card does not contribute much to this discussion. Goyo is MUCH better than Brain Crusher. They have similar effects, but Crusher is a 7 star Effect monster with 2400 ATK, and Goyo's a 2800 6 star Synchro. No competition at all. Red-Eyes Zombie Dragon is better compared to Crusher than to Goyo, because at least they're comparable on a similar level, with Zombie Dragon being type-specific in exchange for easier summoning and support, whereas Crusher...has Gigaplant going for it. Calling someone a "Mark Howard" doesn't have any effect because the context is lost. I assume Mark Howard is someone who is infamous for making idiotic or illogical statements disguised as intelligent discussion, based on your context, but unless people know what you're referencing, you just sound stupid and your insult isn't insulting, just annoying. Annoying someone for the sake of being annoying is considered trolling. Machina Fortress isn't a splashable card. It's Machine support only, and while formidable, its effect is very dependant on factors you have little control over. RFG effects will completely destroy Fortress in all ways. It can't discard itself because it can't revive from RFG. It can't activate its destruction effect because it wasn't sent to grave. You can chain DD Crow or similar to its grave revival effect to make them waste 8 stars from their hand. It can be destroyed by Spells and Traps with no ill effects. Non-targeting monster effects or effect negation beats it. Is its summoning cheap as hell? Yes. But it needs deck dedication to make it work period. Otherwise, it's pretty useless. I'm not saying it's not OPed, because I feel it is, particularly the "can be own cost" aspect. Actually, that's the only problem I have with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time Psyduck Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 Machina Fortress: Good card, maybe a bit overpowered, but not stupidly broken. [quote name='~Jay~' timestamp='1285700701' post='4664023'] Is doesn't say discard from your hand or on the field, so I'm like lost on that part haha [/quote] Discard is always from the hand. From field is 'tribute' or 'send (from field) to the graveyard' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttercup Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 [quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1285704367' post='4664274']I assume Mark Howard is someone who is [b]infamous for making idiotic or illogical statements disguised as intelligent discussion[/b][/quote] Yes. BTW, you can't chain Crow or whatever because it's an inherent Special Summon. Otherwise, it's a well thought out and long post. I rep you in THE FACE. Fortress is still balanced seeeeeeeeee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Jay~ Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 [quote name='Time Psyduck' timestamp='1285704407' post='4664281'] Machina Fortress: Good card, maybe a bit overpowered, but not stupidly broken. [b]Discard is always from the hand. From field is 'tribute' or 'send (from field) to the graveyard'[/b] [/quote] Thank you you're the only one that saw my post, I still think they should specify it though. Just saying. +Rep to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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