Me: "Machina Fortress?" Fortress: "God will suffice."

[Blake]

[quote name='Ser Warjacksworth' timestamp='1285619741' post='4661524']
Don't nerf balanced cards.
[/quote]

lolmachinafortressisbalanced.

Don't get that stuff you are smokin' near me.

[Buttercup]

GTFO MARK HOWARD

The card is a balanced boss monster that is fine where it is, and that will be limited anyway in a year or two.

[Blake]

How is it balnced? What part of "Ritual on Crack" are you not getting?

Let's compare this card to something similar: Dark Simorgh

DS removes 1 WIND and 1 DARK monster from play, in your grave, to Special summon from hand.
MF discards a couple of machines to special summon from your hand.
DS removes 1 WIND and 1 DARK monster from play, in your hand, to Special summon from your grave.
MF discards a couple of machines to special summon from your grave.

Now, compare to a Ritual Monster:
Ritual: Ritual Spell + Ritual Monster in hand + Cards with a level equal to or greater than the Ritual Monster in your hand/on your field (Excluding certain rituals).
MF: Discard Machine-type cards equal to, or greater than, 8 levels to special summon this from your deck or grave. Oh, and you can use IT as its own cost.

[Toffee.]

[quote name='Tainted Black' timestamp='1285620330' post='4661562']
Oh, and you can use IT as its own cost.
[/quote]
Because of the fact how it can be summoned from your hand and/or graveyard, using itself as a cost is like your trying to revive it from the graveyard.
Thats why the effect works that way.

[Blake]

[quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1285620539' post='4661577']
Because of the fact how it can be summoned from your hand and/or graveyard, using itself as a cost is like your trying to revive it from the graveyard.
Thats why the effect works that way.
[/quote]
That's a very cheap ruling, though. It should have been worded differently.

[Buttercup]

You could compare it to Tier 3 cards that are hilariously UPD. Or you could compare it to this:

[img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100127173005/yugioh/images/b/b1/Blackwing-KaluttheMoonShadowRGBT-EN-C-1E.jpg[/img]

+

[img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090625022222/yugioh/images/7/76/Blackwing-GaletheWhirlwindCRMS-EN-R-1E.png[/img]

=

[img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100726064120/yugioh/images/e/ec/GoyoGuardianTDGS-EN-UR-UE.jpg[/img]

If you compare it to cards like Failtroll and DAD, it's bad. It can't toolbox like the Synchro mechanic, and doesn't lead to big combos. It is balanced.

[Blake]

Because being Less broken than something else means it is balanced. Yay for Yugimanz logic.

[Buttercup]

What should the standard be then? Sparks?

[Blake]

Easy: Not cheap cards.

DAD is broken, yes, but it's Limited. It's also not Cheap like MF.

Faultroll... I cannot disagree.

lolsparkslol

So, it either has to be broken or worthless?

MORE YUGIMANZ LOGIC!

[Buttercup]

How is a lolplusthreebecauseidrewthis not cheap?

What do you think is an acceptable power level? If you mention Simorgh and Rituals again then gtfo.

[Blake]

Wow, 'cause using an example of similar cards is wrong >_>

DAD: IT IS LIMITED. @1 it is not cheap. Same with Fortress.

This card has no real drawbacks in summoning. So, you ditch one other monster. OK? That's nothing.

It is ludicrously easy to get out in a heartbeat, at the beginning of a duel, even, and it is a quick beat stick, although not the strongest.

You see, comparing this to Simorgh and Rituals is like Comparing Goyo (Which is limited, BTW) to Brain Crusher. There's a reason 1 is limited and the other is not.

EDIT: Brain Crusher OR Alien Mother

[Nexev]

[quote name='Tainted Black' timestamp='1285621350' post='4661613']
Because being Less broken than something else means it is balanced. Yay for Yugimanz logic.
[/quote]
Honestly? Yes it does.

Because as I said before, everything is either OP, UP, or no one acknowledges it's existence.

So if a card is less broken than what everyone else is using, it's balanced.

Your logic is that since there are a bunch of weaker cards it nullifies the fact that there are a bunch of stronger ones.

The game evolves, bigger and stronger cards are always made to make you buy them as the old cards became obsolete.

It's TCG Darwanism, the broke survive and more broken cards are produced while the inefficient ones die out.

Trying to deny this is simply inane.

Via that logic, 90% of all cards used today are extremely broken because they are better than Summoned Skull, who was infact, broken during it's time.

[Von Csent]

[quote name='Nevert' timestamp='1285627469' post='4661937']
Via that logic, 90% of all cards used today are extremely broken because they are better than Summoned Skull, who was infact, broken during it's time.
[/quote]
That is actually the honest truth, sorry to say. Although I think that Jinzo fits that bill better.

[Nexev]

Summoned Skull is far older though so it fits the bill better.

It was the original meta pretty much.

[Just Crouton]

When you think about it, it's 2500 ATK makes it balanced. With 2500 ATK, you'll never use it's "destroy 1 card" effect because the opponent will never destroy it by battle. They'll probably just play something like Caius, Mirror Force, D-Prison, or Lightning Vortex to get around it. Also, how often will you find yourself using it's "discard 1" effect especially since Fissure/Smashing doesn't target?

[GenzoTheHarpist]

[quote name='~King Crouton~' timestamp='1285630928' post='4662132']
When you think about it, it's 2500 ATK makes it balanced. With 2500 ATK, you'll never use it's "destroy 1 card" effect because the opponent will never destroy it by battle. They'll probably just play something like Caius, Mirror Force, D-Prison, or Lightning Vortex to get around it. Also, how often will you find yourself using it's "discard 1" effect especially since Fissure/Smashing doesn't target?
[/quote]
Good lord, you just named two likely cards used to destroy it that target, and then follow it up with "how likely is it that it will be targeted?"

I don't know, YOU tell ME.

[Just Crouton]

[quote name='GenzoTheHarpist' timestamp='1285631840' post='4662174']
Good lord, you just named two likely cards used to destroy it that target, and then follow it up with "how likely is it that it will be targeted?"

I don't know, YOU tell ME.
[/quote]

*Rereads effect*
[i]
"When this face-up card you control is targeted by an opponent's Effect Monster's effect, look at your opponent's hand and discard 1 card from their hand."
[/i]
CORRECTION: It only triggers when it's an Effect Monster's effect. I only mentioned 1 card that triggers this.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

Also, that clause gives GBs nightmares. I hate having to use Murmillo on the thing if I can't empty my hand.

[Manjoume Thunder]

People think that this is anything other than balanced?

YCM is getting dumber. And I am astonished that it is is possible.

[evilfusion]

This is a powerful card, but it's not impossible to work around at all. Destroying it in battle will take something with it, but effects and other methods of removal are fair game. Targeting it with an effect monster will force a discard, meaning someone may have to be more creative. The Machina Union monsters make the necessity of working around it all the more critical, but a well-built deck will find this primarily to be a nuisance and nothing more.

Gadget Machina w/ Solidarity is a very deadly deck if built properly, with the consistency and search engine of gadgets coupled with the power of this card and other support. This is one of the best Structure Deck cover cards to be released in a LONG time.

[Buttercup]

[quote name='Tainted Black' timestamp='1285623078' post='4661694']You see, comparing this to Simorgh and Rituals is like Comparing Goyo (Which is limited, BTW) to Brain Crusher.[/quote]

Why did you do it then?

Go away Mark Howard. Do not infect YCM with your trollziness and poor understanding of card theory.

[Blake]

[quote name='Ser Warjacksworth' timestamp='1285695413' post='4663651']
Why did you do it then?

Go away Mark Howard. Do not infect YCM with your trollziness and poor understanding of card theory.
[/quote]
*Facepalm* Brain Crusher and Alien Mother have similar effects to Goyo! So, I was saying it makes perfect sense to do such.

Who is MArk Howard? And I'm not trolling at all.

So, you're gonna school me on my "poor understanding of card theory" (BTW, stupid phrase), when you take my quote out of context, and don't know your cards. *Slow clapping*

[~Jay~]

Is doesn't say discard from your hand or on the field, so I'm like lost on that part haha

[Buttercup]

IT MAKES NO SENSE TO COMPARE MONSTERS THAT GO IN YOUR MAIN DECK TO SYNCHRO MONSTERS. THEY DO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS. GTFO MARK HOWARD.

[Blake]

Dude, Chill out. I'm not trolling, at all. If anyone is, it's you.

Yes, it does make sense. They have similar effects. Why is Goyo banned? Higher attack and ease of Summoning. Brain Crusher is not, and he has neither of thoise. MAkin' sense now? Fortress has a ridiculously easy summoning, that is even easier than Goyo or other Synchros.

Now, stop being a n00b, and stop calling people Mark Howard. By telling me to GTFO like that and calling me someone you apparently hate, you are, technically, flaming.

BTW, All caps don't make you any cooler. You are still on YCM, like the rest of us.