the MAGIC number

[Flame Dragon]

So as of late I have lost almost all interest in Yugioh. Why? MTG. Personally I love it and one of the things that makes me like it so much more then yugioh is......the magic site. On the site they posts 2 articles every week day about how they make different parts of the game, how they build blocks and make cards to fit into the game, deck building advice (both on a budget and top tier level), trivia about art and how much some cards change as they go though being made, and just other magic related things. Personally I love having this kind of insight into the minds of the people that make the game

So why did I post all that? Simple, what if yugioh had something like that? What if we could go to a place and learn what the creatures of the game think when they make cards. What they do to try to balance the game. How they feel when they learn how badly they screwed up in making a card. What the hell they’re thinking when the update the ban list. As I said I love having insight and that would be a great thing to have in yugioh.



Also, I don’t think I can get way with this kind of thread, so lets also talk about the magic ATK numbers in yugioh. I find these numbers to be 1800/1900 (both are major IMO) for level 4s, 2400 for level 6, and 2800 for mostly everything else. I mean if Stardust lost 100 ATK it can be traded with a lot of monsters, and losing another 100 makes running it over a cake walk for a lot of monsters. What if Brain Crusher had 100 more ATK? Sure he still wouldn’t be good, but he’ll certainly be a fair amount better. How about Chaos Sorcerer? If he had 100 more ATK he becomes a much bigger pain to deal. Personally I find it amazing how much those numbers have become ingrained into the game.


So any way, thought on what it would be like if yugioh started giving creator insight? What monsters would become a fair bit better or worse just by playing with their ATK by a few points? Have I lost my mind in thinking these things are important? Feel free to answer and of those questions and others that might relate to those topics.

[Zkaiser]

This is a very good thread. Once or twice I have thought, "Oh, I wish that guy had 100 more ATK!" Goyo is broken in my book because his ATK makes no sense. 2800 on a level 6! WTF?

Also, a lot of cards are utility is measured on whether or not they can "duck the bottomless"


Having creator insight would seriously heighten the fun of this game immensely. I'm still waiting on the official Gagagigo and Duel Terminal stories.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

JDs 3000 causes troubles, you can't smash a Goyo into him for instance.

[Blake]

[quote name='Zkaiser' timestamp='1288997037' post='4764216']
Goyo is broken in my book because his ATK makes no sense. 2800 on a level 6! WTF?
[/quote]
FINALLY! SOMEONE GETS IT!

I've tried to make the point that Goyo is so much more broken than others because of high attack. That, and compared to other Murder Thieves (Alien Mother, Brain Crusher, etc), he is easier to summon AND much stronger.

The new banlist definitely makes me want to look in their heads...

[Lonk]

ATK/DEF by Level Ratio is very important. Goyo is broken because he has 2800 ATK with no drawback at all! When is the ban hammer coming for him anyways?

[-Griffin]

The 'general' formula that seems to show the 'main' ATK values is (Level+2)*300. That gives 1500 for level 3s, 1800 for level 4s, 2400 for level 6s and 3000 for level 8s, which seems to be pretty accurate in my books. I personally find 2600 one of the biggest hurdles, because getting around Stardust often feels like a little bit of a big deal.

[Expelsword]

Let's not forget the most magic of numbers... 5000 and WTF10000

Seriously though, 3300 is becoming an important number...

[Canadian]

So all this thread is discussing how a monsters ATK can determine whether they are useful or not? Pretty sure everybody realizes this. If monsters' ATK/DEF stats weren't an issue, cards like Burden of the Mighty wouldn't even be needed.

Thing is, it's not going to change so theres no point in discussing hypotheticals.

[Brandon Michael Geren]

[quote name='Zkaiser' timestamp='1288997037' post='4764216']
Goyo is broken in my book because his ATK makes no sense. 2800 on a level 6! WTF?
[/quote]
People continue to say this, yet they say nothing about The Fabled Unicore's 2300 for a Level 4. This may partly be due to the fact that it isn't TCG and isn't generic, but my point is that if a monster is hard to summon and has high ATK, it doesn't matter. Konami could've made Judgment Dragon a Level 1 with everything else the same and nothing would change. It wouldn't break the game. This was released in the first pack with generic Synchros (I said pack, not deck. I know of 5ds1.) and Konami probably thought that Synchros were hard to summon. They were pretty right when this came out. The only good way to do it was Emergency Teleport. But then things became insane.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

[quote name='Purple Whatevers' timestamp='1289001965' post='4764410']
People continue to say this, yet they say nothing about The Fabled Unicore's 2300 for a Level 4. This may partly be due to the fact that it isn't TCG and isn't generic, but my point is that if a monster is hard to summon and has high ATK, it doesn't matter. Konami could've made Judgment Dragon a Level 1 with everything else the same and nothing would change. It wouldn't break the game. This was released in the first pack with generic Synchros (I said pack, not deck. I know of 5ds1.) and Konami probably thought that Synchros were hard to summon. They were pretty right when this came out. The only good way to do it was Emergency Teleport. But then things became insane.
[/quote]
Yeah, because Emergency Teleport totally wasn't insane.

[Toffee.]

[quote name='Purple Whatevers' timestamp='1289001965' post='4764410']
People continue to say this, yet they say nothing about The Fabled Unicore's 2300 for a Level 4.
[/quote]
Unicore requires specific Synchro Material.
Goyo is generic.

The whole 'Generic vs non-generic' should play a part in whether or not a Synchro monster should have higher or lower ATK.

...And this might be just me, but Gene Warped Warwolf would be pretty kewl if its ATK were 2100 O,o

[Brinolovania]

[quote name='Purple Whatevers' timestamp='1289001965' post='4764410']
People continue to say this, yet they say nothing about The Fabled Unicore's 2300 for a Level 4. This may partly be due to the fact that it isn't TCG and isn't generic, but my point is that if a monster is hard to summon and has high ATK, it doesn't matter. Konami could've made Judgment Dragon a Level 1 with everything else the same and nothing would change. It wouldn't break the game. This was released in the first pack with generic Synchros (I said pack, not deck. I know of 5ds1.) and Konami probably thought that Synchros were hard to summon. They were pretty right when this came out. The only good way to do it was Emergency Teleport. But then things became insane.
[/quote]
And yet, Konami seems unwilling to hit him hard with the banhammer.

[Expelsword]

I think the game would be different if only the Signer Dragons were generic, and the rest all needed a certain type of tuner or something

it would make the Signers more special

[Brinolovania]

[quote name='Expelsword' timestamp='1289003415' post='4764482']
I think the game would be different if only the Signer Dragons were generic, and the rest all needed a certain type of tuner or something

it would make the Signers more special
[/quote]
But then I would feel influenced by the anime...I would need to use summoning chants...and have spiky hair...and randomly make friendship speeches...all to summon a generic synchro.

[Zkaiser]

The main thing I would like to hear exlained by Konami is the "random" rarity increases/decreases. Like, they really need to explain Chaos Goddess.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='Canadian' timestamp='1289001781' post='4764402']
So all this thread is discussing how a monsters ATK can determine whether they are useful or not? Pretty sure everybody realizes this. If monsters' ATK/DEF stats weren't an issue, cards like Burden of the Mighty wouldn't even be needed.

Thing is, it's not going to change so theres no point in discussing hypotheticals.
[/quote]
What's wrong with hypotheticals? All ban list threads are built on them. And it's about how such a small change (100 or 200 points) can make a really good card not that good and make really bad cards decent.

Also, this thread has a second topic on what it would be like if we had the makers of the game tell us what they things when they do what they do.

[quote name='!' timestamp='1289003152' post='4764469']
And yet, Konami seems unwilling to hit him hard with the banhammer.
[/quote]
Because the people there are just stupid.

[Toffee.]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1289004424' post='4764529']
Because the people there are just stupid.
[/quote]
Konami is the one thats behind the list >______>

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1289005191' post='4764572']
Konami is the one thats behind the list >______>
[/quote]
I know that. I was calling them the idiots.

[Brinolovania]

[quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1289005191' post='4764572']
Konami is the one thats behind the list >______>
[/quote]
Therefore, Konami is stupid. IT ISN'T THAT HARD TO FIGURE OUT...

[Brandon Michael Geren]

[img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070916194548/yugioh/images/1/1c/Big-TuskedMammothDR3-EN-R.jpg[/img]

Can we also discuss level changes?

[burnpsy]

ATK isn't really that interesting of a topic... That topic just ends up with "Card X should have had Y ATK, not Z ATK."

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1289004424' post='4764529']
Also, this thread has a second topic on what it would be like if we had the makers of the game tell us what they things when they do what they do.


Because the people there are just stupid.
[/quote]

You want to hear what they're thinking but you're already dismissing them as stupid. If you already have an opinion on their stance which they have not explained, then their explanation would serve no purpose.

In any case, YGO is the only one of the 3 major TCGs that don't have the people in charge explaining at least some of their actions on a fairly regular basis. However, do note that there's nothing for English-speaking people who handle these things to say, really (aside from rarity changes, which pretty much explain themselves, and TCG exclusives, which aren't that interesting aside from a select few broken ones).

Regardless, I honestly don't care since this game is the cheapest money-wise to play of the three (assuming one is using a good deck that manages to hold onto its status as a good deck through multiple formats, mainly needing changes to keep up and remain legal and assuming cards are obtained as singles; also not counting PKMN's completely free tournament system). I care about my money more than expanded reasoning on why things are done to the game.

[Toffee.]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1289005312' post='4764576']
I know that. I was calling them the idiots.
[/quote]
But they also control how long the game exists :<

[quote name='Purple Whatevers' timestamp='1289005566' post='4764594']
Can we also discuss level changes?
[/quote]
Herp derp a level 4 with 2K ATK and DEF that keeps the opponent from attacking

[Anbu-of-Sand]

[quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1289006475' post='4764639']
But they also control how long the game exists :<


Herp derp a level 4 with 2K ATK and DEF that keeps the opponent from attacking
[/quote]
*1000 DEF

The creators need to talk about why they are lacking a Chaos Sorceress that does what Chaos Sorcerer does but with Spells / Traps instead :<

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='burnpsy' timestamp='1289005986' post='4764615']
You want to hear what they're thinking but you're already dismissing them as stupid. If you already have an opinion on their stance which they have not explained, then their explanation would serve no purpose.

In any case, YGO is the only one of the 3 major TCGs that don't have the people in charge explaining at least some of their actions on a fairly regular basis. However, do note that there's nothing for English-speaking people who handle these things to say, really (aside from rarity changes, which pretty much explain themselves, and TCG exclusives, which aren't that interesting aside from a select few broken ones).

Regardless, I honestly don't care since this game is the cheapest money-wise to play of the three (assuming one is using a good deck that manages to hold onto its status as a good deck through multiple formats, mainly needing changes to keep up and remain legal and assuming cards are obtained as singles; also not counting PKMN's completely free tournament system). I care about my money more than expanded reasoning on why things are done to the game.
[/quote]
They seem stupid because we have no idea what's going on when they think, I have an opinion that is based on the info I have. If I had more my view could change. And even if I still thought it to have been a stupid move, I would still have some understanding of it. We could also learn if they end up thinking their move was a stupid one.

This is true, and in fact I never thought abut it. Still, it's not like they couldn't give the fans in Japan some reasoning for what's going on via V-Jump and then bring that over here in SJ.

I've found magic to be cheaper tbqh with most rare singles I'm looking for costing in the range of $3-$8. Plus the deal they offer (60 card deck + pack) for only $10 is value I've only seen in magic. But this is a very different topic

[Brandon Michael Geren]

[quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1289006475' post='4764639']
Herp derp a level 4 with 2K ATK and DEF that keeps the opponent from attacking
[/quote]
Da ATK would change.