Vairon Prism

[Birkeland]

[center][img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101118134503/yugioh/images/f/f8/VaironPrismDT11-JP.jpg[/img]

[b]If this card is sent from the Monster Card Zone to the Graveyard, you can pay 500 Life Points to equip this card to a face-up monster you control as an Equip Card. If the equipped monster attacks or is attacked, it gains 1000 ATK during damage calculation only.[/b]

Level 4. LIGHT/Thunder-Type. Tuner.
ATK/1500 DEF/1500

A Level 4 Tuner. If its effect is [b]'If...you can'[/b] so you can Synchro Summon and then equip this card to that monster. Gets Vairon support. Its pretty good. Helps out Watts if you think about it.[/center]

[evilfusion]

Searchable, Light, no-downsides Level 4 Tuner, that can equip to something when sent to the grave and become, for most purposes, Axe of Despair.

[Toffee.]

Its a /VERY/ nice Tuner. Would have been hilarious if its ATK was 1000, but thats pushing it xD

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

It's a very good card, and especially so for Vairons. Also, I don't see a problem with Konami making cards Thunder-Type. Don't you feel that all types should get a boost every now and then? The Watts and Batteries are nice, but you can't keep it at that and say they're finished making Thunder.

[The Sacred Ninja]

It's a pretty cool card. I just wish that this, and the other Vairon tuners, was treated as an Equip Spell in the grave.

[Dries965]

It is not the first card where they make it a different type then the genereal type from the archetype, a morphtronic tuner has the same, being a thunder while rest is machine

[TheTurtleOnceCalledGod]

It is almost a good thing that it isn't a fairy, otherwise it would be [i]too[/i] good

[iAmNateXero]

op: it will still miss the timing if used for a synchro. its an optional effect.

[Zkaiser]

OMG THIS CARD IS AWESOME FOR WATTS.

Sort of, seeing as how Watts need a Watt Tuner to get out Chimera or Kirimu. Still, pretty cool card.

[Birkeland]

[quote name='Nate Xero™' timestamp='1290178956' post='4795328']
op: it will still miss the timing if used for a synchro. its an optional effect.
[/quote]

Actually no. I don't mean to start another 'Miss the timing' discussion, so here's a quote from another topic explaining it:

[quote name='darkwolf777' timestamp='1287446417' post='4716321']
I'd thought I'd enlighten this here as well since I made a mistake in the Q&A about this (because I misread the card thinking "When" in my mind). I corrected myself, but I thought i'd post it here as well since its part of this discussion.

Shinai states "[b]If[/b] this card is Tributed." It is not the same as "[b]When[/b] this card is Tributed."

If a card's trigger says "When", then the timing asks for the effect to activate at that specific time.

If a card's trigger says "If", then the effect would activate after the current chain resolves.

Of course, do not confuse a card's Trigger with its Condition for activation (such as with Darksoul where "If this card is sent to the Graveyard" is a condition.)

The only TCG card I can think of that has this wording is Moon Dragon Quilla. If you check its rulings, it cannot miss the timing either and will activate after the current chain, even though its effect to Special Summon is Optional.

Shinai should follow the same rulings.
[/quote]

[-Berserker-]

"during damage calculation only" means it does not add to the opponent's Honest. That's almost as good as Metalmorph...

[BDKMRV]

lmao this will be so broken with WATTS

[iAmNateXero]

[quote name='ekikin' timestamp='1290181495' post='4795370']
Actually no. I don't mean to start another 'Miss the timing' discussion, so here's a quote from another topic explaining it:


[/quote]

It is still wrong, "If" or "When" Does not matter the fact that it says, "You can" makes it miss the timing. [b]If this card is sent from the Monster Card Zone to the Graveyard, [u][i][b]you can[/b][/i][/u] pay 500 Life Points to equip this card to a face-up monster you control as an Equip Card.

[/b]If you use this card as a tool for summon, be it advanced or synchro, the last thing to happen is the monster coming out. Thus missing the timing. The only way out for this is a bkss.

[-Griffin]

[quote name='Nate Xero™' timestamp='1290201330' post='4795885']
It is still wrong, "If" or "When" Does not matter the fact that it says, "You can" makes it miss the timing. [b]If this card is sent from the Monster Card Zone to the Graveyard, [u][i][b]you can[/b][/i][/u] pay 500 Life Points to equip this card to a face-up monster you control as an Equip Card.

[/b]If you use this card as a tool for summon, be it advanced or synchro, the last thing to happen is the monster coming out. Thus missing the timing. The only way out for this is a bkss.
[/quote]

"When" is short for "At the exact time which"
"If" is short for "At the next possible moment after"

If can't miss timing. It's only been used recently, and not that often, but is correct for not missing timing. It might be easier to think about it as, "everything else only misses timing because 'When' is very specific"

[iAmNateXero]

Well i just going to tell you how many other judges and myself read the effects. I will take it to the judge board and ask them. Ive judged many regionals and my first jump a month ago and never heard about this. lol this is all news to me, but knowing konami, i wont hold them to anything.

[-Griffin]

[quote name='Nate Xero™' timestamp='1290202163' post='4795912']
Well i just going to tell you how many other judges and myself read the effects. I will take it to the judge board and ask them. Ive judged many regionals and my first jump a month ago and never heard about this. lol this is all news to me, but knowing konami, i wont hold them to anything.
[/quote]

The only card that isn't super-recent to have it (and I think the only currently TCG card) is Moon Dragon Quilla, which is judged as unable to miss.

[iAmNateXero]

But I read this card many times, which effect are you referring to when you said it can not miss the timing? The first effect is mandatory, so no it can't miss the timing. As for the second effect if the last thing to happen is that it is destroyed, you can activate its effect. The second effect is still optional, so a card like Scrap dragon would still make Moon Dragon Quilla miss the timing as the last thing to happen is your opponents monster being destroyed.

[evilfusion]

[quote name='Nate Xero™' timestamp='1290201330' post='4795885']
It is still wrong, "If" or "When" Does not matter the fact that it says, "You can" makes it miss the timing. [b]If this card is sent from the Monster Card Zone to the Graveyard, [u][i][b]you can[/b][/i][/u] pay 500 Life Points to equip this card to a face-up monster you control as an Equip Card.

[/b]If you use this card as a tool for summon, be it advanced or synchro, the last thing to happen is the monster coming out. Thus missing the timing. The only way out for this is a bkss.
[/quote]

"You can" just means its optional, as opposed to a mandatory effect that does not say that. "When" + "you can" means it can miss the timing.

[iAmNateXero]

So you are agreeing with me. ok cool, I thought I was going crazy.

[-Griffin]

[quote name='Nate Xero™' timestamp='1290202791' post='4795942']
But I read this card many times, which effect are you referring to when you said it can not miss the timing? The first effect is mandatory, so no it can't miss the timing. As for the second effect if the last thing to happen is that it is destroyed, you can activate its effect.[b] The second effect is still optional, so a card like Scrap dragon would still make Moon Dragon Quilla miss the timing as the last thing to happen is your opponents monster being destroyed.[/b]
[/quote]

The thing is, bolded is wrong.

[quote]
If "Moon Dragon Quilla" is destroyed in the middle of resolving a Chain - for example, by the effect of "Raigeki Break" which was activated at Chain Link 2 or higher - then the effect of "Moon Dragon Quilla" which Special Summons "Sun Dragon Inti" will activate after the Chain finishes resolving.[4][/quote]

The if makes it not miss, regardless of optional-ness.

[iAmNateXero]

[quote name='-Griffin' timestamp='1290203094' post='4795949']
The thing is, bolded is wrong.



The if makes it not miss, regardless of optional-ness.
[/quote]

But its not, i destroyed it as a cost, making it still able to miss the timing. cost =/= effect. Please reread my example.

EDIT:

[quote]You activate the effect to [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Special_Summon"]Special Summon[/url] "[url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Sun_Dragon_Inti"]Sun Dragon Inti[/url]" at the end of the [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_Step"]Damage Step[/url] if "[url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Moon_Dragon_Quilla"]Moon Dragon Quilla[/url]" is destroyed by battle, and after the end of the [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Chain"]Chain[/url] in which "[url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Moon_Dragon_Quilla"]Moon Dragon Quilla[/url]" is destroyed if it is [b]destroyed by an effect.[/b][/quote]

[-Griffin]

[quote name='Nate Xero™' timestamp='1290203375' post='4795961']
But its not, i destroyed it as a cost, making it still able to miss the timing. cost =/= effect. Please reread my example.

EDIT:
[/quote]

"You can" does not miss timing. "When" misses timing in the case that it is combined with "you can". Moon Dragon never misses timing - the quote you have yourself shows that by the fact that it activates in a separate chain.

"If" always starts a new chain after the current one, therefore cannot miss timing, even when the condition is fulfilled as a cost (unless it states it must be done by an effect, which Quilla nor Vairons do.) The ruling mentions only battle and effect because those are far more common, but Moon Dragon would also trigger if destroyed by cost or ruling.

[evilfusion]

Scrap Dragon does not destroy a card as a cost. It destroys two cards, one on each side of the field, as its effect.

Come to think of it, do any cards "destroy" as a cost?

[Birkeland]

Throwing the two cents in again. For the sake of [i]this particular card[/i]: If you Summon a monster using Vairon Prism as a Tuner or non-Tuner monster, you can then use Vairon Prism's effect to equip itself to that monster.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

[quote name='ekikin' timestamp='1290208067' post='4796168']
Throwing the two cents in again. For the sake of [i]this particular card[/i]: If you Summon a monster using Vairon Prism as a Tuner or non-Tuner monster, you can then use Vairon Prism's effect to equip itself to that monster.
[/quote]
I don't believe that's true, seeing as as soon as it was Tuned its effect would attempt to activate. The Synchro does not come out until after it is sent to the Graveyard, which, as I said, is when its effect activates.