Colossal Arms Fish OTK?

[sebihp2007]

This might be yesterday's news, but .. I was playing against this guy on YVD, using my Lightsworn Twilight Deck

[u]First Duel:[/u]

Summon Garoth, set Decree. He activates Premature Burial (Foolish Burial, I'm stupid) combined with Mosnter Reborn and summons [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Superancient_Deepsea_King_Coelacanth"]Superancient Deepsea King Coelacanth[/url]. He uses effect, summons a bunch of monsters and makes 2 Synchros: Colossal Fighter and Armory Arm; equips Arm to Garoth (has 2850 now) and attacks it with his 2800 Fighter, hence it is destroyed and I take 2800 dmg (Armory Arm's effect), but due to Colossal Fighter it summons itself again and repeats, hence resulting in an OTK

[u]Second Duel:[/u]

Has a nice flow, he summoned some Formula Synchrons, took them with my Goyo, negated his Goyo with Shiny Black "C", win

[u]Third Duel:[/u]

I start by summoning Jain, mill Wulf, Wulf is summoned, Solemn Set. MSTs my Solemn, uses the same combo as he did in the first duel and OTKs again


Now, I know this isn't "Flash News", but I find it that something has to hit the ban list here (Superancient Deepsea King Coelacanth?) or maybe Armory Arm will get an Errata which only allows it to be equipped to your own monsters; anyway, 2 FTKs in the same match seems kind of broken and all they need is 2 cards really, Premature Burial and any Grave Reviver ..

discuss? ..

[El-Rrey]

[quote name='sebihp2007' timestamp='1292266938' post='4849370']
He activates Premature Burial
[/quote]

I stopped here!

[Legend Zero]

Premature Burial is banned. =/

EDIT: Damn, ninja'd again.

[Manjoume Thunder]

[quote]Premature Burial[/quote]

[b]foolish[/b] burial

[quote]FTKs[/quote]

[b]o[/b]tks

[quote]all they need is 2 cards really, Premature Burial and any Grave Reviver ..[/quote]

+discard
+a monster with more than 1800 atk in atk mode on the opponent's field or a monster with more than 800 atk in atk mode on the opponent's field and an extra discard to make a 2nd armory arm

Anyway ...

Why do you only seem to hate the fish deck when Infernities, Plants and Flamevell can pull it consistently and some other decks can do it every once in a while?

Why do you think that this is worse than any other "summon synchros and win" otk?

[sebihp2007]

[quote name='Dark Marquis Belial' timestamp='1292267805' post='4849403']
I stopped here!
[/quote]

Bleh, confusing names .. The other Burial: Foolish Burial.. but you could've quite figured it out since I said Burial + Monster Reborn.. there we go ..

[quote]+discard[/quote]

I actually lol'd at that .. A discard isn't a card you need for a combo, since anything can be used.. It's like saying: hey, to use Ryko I need 4 cards, so he's a lot less powerful than Man-Eater Bug which only requires one card ..

[quote]otks[/quote]

I actually gave it quite a thought of whether to use FTKs or OTKs and I ended up using both throughout the post. That is because it was his First Turn .. whatever

The difference between this and Plants is that this only requires 2 cards to OTK .. (You can use Colossal Arms or just summon a bunch of Synchros with high ATK, still a 2 card OTK)

[Manjoume Thunder]

the card you discard was in your hand.
the cards you mill were in your deck.


lrn2cardadvantage and stop giving terrible examples
owait ... you play lightsworn you don't need to know that

[sebihp2007]

[quote name='Manjoume Thunder' timestamp='1292268964' post='4849445']


lrn2cardadvantage and stop giving terrible examples
owait ... you play lightsworn you don't need to know that
[/quote]

There goes again picking on Lightsworns, lol ...

Just for the information of certain Forum users, I had over 20 (competitive, most of them) recipes and I didn't use to play Lightsworn back when it was a simple Charge >> Lumina >> LoL mechanized kind of gameplay. With the September banlist however, Twilight Lightsworns are incredibly fun to play, there being so many choices involved throughout every duel; but there we go, the standard Lightsworn = newb stereotype (which is in fact justified judging by how LS used to be, which kind makes me *sigh* deeply)

On topic, the point of that post was that the discarded card can be anything, so you can still call it a 2 card combo, as the 3rd card can be anything, hence it is not a part of the combo; and if you really want to get into card advantage: discard one, Special Summon 4, much ?

Now, I could reply with the same "lrn2cardadvantage", but there we go ..

[Tronta]

i don't know why i'm here, but:

you're just really freaking butthurt. i get it, your stupid netdeck lost to an inconsistent otk that relies on 2 limited cards. you're running f***ing lightsworns, you have two semi-limited otk machines: jd and honest. quit whining and stop losing so badly. maybe you should side roar or dprison or ddcrow or something.

you know what's a more consistent combo than this? wall of revealing light + self-destruct button.
and i bet you'd be bitching about that if you lost to it, too.


the fact is, colossal, armory, and coelacanth are all fine separately. coelacanth with synchros is a bit retarded, but without that it's next to useless. the combo might be bannable if it saw excessive use, but the fact is that the combo is horribly inconsistent. the real problem is that synchros in general are way too lolotk. b**** about all of em if you're going to b**** about one stupid combo.

oh, and card advantage is important. not for lightsworns, but for real decks. +1 from the hand, even if it's general, is important. +3 from the deck is not. you don't control the cards in your deck, and there's around 30 of them anyway. it's assumed you can always pay a mill cost unless A. you're playing vs. a mill deck, or B. you're a terrible player. graveyard and rfg numbers are similarly ignored when counting advantage and costs, which is just the summation of cards on your field and in your hand vs. your opponent's field+hand. some otks consider cards in deck/grave/rfg, such as magical explosion (another more consistent [b]F[/b]TK). these rely on unique counting and deck construction when considering their effectiveness.

edit:
oh, and the +3 from coelacanth's effect is cool, but you have to consider what you're getting. 4 fish that are level 4, can't attack and have no effects. scapegoat is also a +3, and jd can be a +4. of course jd is actually banworthy, but whatever. a perfect example of situational advantage generation with a cost would probably be ddreturn. hardly bannable, since it's really just a last ditch. but then dark hole is a possible +4 and completely bannable. so the issue isn't just the fact that it pulls big numbers. the real issue with coelacanth's advantage generation is it creates 2 synchros, sometimes 3 if you're awesome and use oyster n fishborg. now coel goes down to a +2. still oppressive, but since this combo can be killed by everything from dprison to warning, both of which should be sided if not mained, added to it's inherent inconsistency, it's fairly balanced, or at least not an issue of concern. your real problem should be with synchros in general, and with whatever deck is actually oppressing others, rather than a fluke win from a bad deck.

tldr version:
colossal fish arm can be performed in a hundred and twelve ways, the smallest of which requires 3 cards, two of which are limited and one is a general discard. it also relies on a clear backfield and an opponent controlling a monster of specified size in attack position, which is never reliable. crying that someone lucksacked and drew the same two limited cards in both games is idiotic. furthermore, crying when you have control over the conditions for his otk just shows poor adaptation and strategy on your part.

[sebihp2007]

You do realize that the initial point of this topic was to discuss the OTK and not flame each other to death, right ?

I'm not "Butthurt", I've just lost a duel to an inconsistent FTK Gift Card, but I'm perfectly fine by it.. I've lost to 4 Synchros in 1 turn Infernity, perfectly fine by it. But everytime a OTK happens I bring it out for discussion ..

Then this happens *sigh*

[Legend Zero]

[quote name='sebihp2007' timestamp='1292270474' post='4849544']
But everytime a OTK happens I bring it out for discussion ..
[/quote]
Then you'd flood the TCG Section. :l

[-Berserker-]

I finally got a second Seaking for my deck, but no one I know has Armory Armz, so I cannot get one to perform the combo. There are a lot of ways to perform the OTK, all of them just being Summon Coelacanth while you control no other monsters or control a Royal Swamp Eel/Fishborg Blaster/Oyster Meister (or any other lv 3 WATER, Undine is also used in the deck)/ Any other lv 4 Fish. Fastest way would include drawing Seaking and Mausoleum/Terraforming, nothing of which are limited.
Flamvells can perform the OTK too, and maybe even Infernities; and you can't really ban all of those for a single combo, Armory Arm can be replaced with Junk Barrage and the banworthyness of Colossal is up to you.

[Yeezus]

I lol'd so hard at manjys: lrn2cardadvantage owait you play lightsworn you don't need to know that. Hahahahahahhaha.

ALSO b**** BE HATIN ON THE FISH

KILL HIM

[Azuh]

Loving how the TC thinks that Armory Arm is the problem in the OTK

[DARKPLANT RISING]

[quote name='sebihp2007' timestamp='1292270474' post='4849544']You do realize that the initial point of this topic was to discuss the OTK and not flame each other to death, right ?[/quote]
It's your fault.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

The Colossal Arms OTK doesn't work, according to a ruling I read just a day or so ago.

[El-Rrey]

[quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1292287688' post='4850473']
The Colossal Arms OTK doesn't work, according to a ruling I read just a day or so ago.
[/quote]

I heard It was a fake one!

Anyway:
- LS Twilight sucks, dead draws so often that you would like to run/should be running Puresworn;
- Fish OTK is consistent, it just isn't popular.
- LS don't forcefully OTK with JD or Honests, Celestia plays can hurt the opponent and if you're hitting some Wulfs/Tuners, you should be able to OTK although the last one is rather a luck factor!

[The ReBeL]

used to play this deck when strike fighter was legal. i will make this again soon.

OT: this deck is still great and has the potential to otk. you might have lost still even without him otk'ing. if not when you went for jd he could have gone locomotive and straight out win if he played that build.

Learn from me if you complain about this then you might as well play vs. EBI's.