Bahamut - Envoy of the End Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 Wow, my second topic in this section in two days. This one will cause a feeding frenzy of an argument (I hope, boring otherwise). And yes I did check to make sure there hadn't been a topic on this recently. I suspect this has been discussed before. [URL=http://img46.imageshack.us/i/300pxdarkholesyenac1e.jpg/][IMG]http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4607/300pxdarkholesyenac1e.jpg[/IMG][/URL] This card is Yu-Gi-Oh's equilvalent to the low blow, the ultimate in cheap, dirty tactics. My usual reaction to this card being played against me is a slow hand-clap, with 'You have just proved you have no skill to win other than to brainlessly nuke the field, and you probably have a small .... too.' How this card has stayed off the ban-list bemuses me completely. Feel free to [s]argue[/s] discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttercup Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 we all know this should be @3 stop being bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brinolovania Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Ser Warjacksworth' timestamp='1293119278' post='4876682'] we all know this should be @3 stop being bad [/quote] Best. Format. EVER. No competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenxAtemYAOI Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 White [b]Ho[/b]l[b]e[/b] says hi lololol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Griffin Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 It's smart to include it. IMO, 'meh' for the format. Would be better with a no-damage-this-turn clause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 It may as well just be called Rageki. People hang onto this until the tables turn for their field to solely nuke your opponent's. Albeit it's not as flexible but for me, its just too powerful. I hope it goes back to zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [Obligatory "Should be @2" post] [quote name='Canadian' timestamp='1293120954' post='4876792'] People hang onto this until the tables turn for their field to solely nuke your opponent's. [/quote] For the record, Heavy Storm did the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Chess Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 A cool card with a simple but useful effect. Yeah, its nice ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Matt Bahamut' timestamp='1293119172' post='4876679'] This card is Yu-Gi-Oh's equilvalent to the low blow, the ultimate in cheap, dirty tactics. My usual reaction to this card being played against me is a slow hand-clap, with 'You have just proved you have no skill to win other than to brainlessly nuke the field, and you probably have a small .... too.' [/quote] If you're given the chance to use a bannable card, you use it. You can keep your pride, because I got 1st place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut - Envoy of the End Posted December 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='JadenxAtemYAOI' timestamp='1293119615' post='4876717'] White [b]Ho[/b]l[b]e[/b] says hi lololol [/quote] Poor argument, Jar Robber says hi. Pot is still banned. Who actually puts White Hole in their Deck on the off chance they'll have it ready for when Dark Hole comes? [quote name='Canadian' timestamp='1293120954' post='4876792'] It may as well just be called Rageki. [/quote] Precisely. [quote name='Legend Zero' timestamp='1293123645' post='4876937'] If you're given the chance to use a bannable card, you use it. You can keep your pride, because I got 1st place. [/quote] You can have the trophy, other stuff means more (do [b]not[/b] insert mushy anime-style spirit of dueling speech). I choose death before dishonour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VolTama Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 Konami can't not have topdecks in their formats. With Bacon gone, African American Hole and Monster Reborn take its place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysty Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 This is banworthy. Now the real question is which of these would be the best balancing nerf for this card: • requires discarding a card as a cost • no attacking this turn • no attacking directly this turn • any combination of the 3 above • write-in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut - Envoy of the End Posted December 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Mystery Guest' timestamp='1293128556' post='4877176'] This is banworthy. Now the real question is which of these would be the best balancing nerf for this card: • requires discarding a card as a cost [/quote] Lightning Vortex Also, much laughter at whoever gave me the neg. It is quite amusing how much my opinion upset someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manjoume Thunder Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 no, I just decided to neg the first bad poster I see every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpsy Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 Honestly, while I originally thought it was broken, in reality it's just another generic removal card. If people don't overextend, this card won't kill much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDKMRV Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 It's like Heavy Storm. But it only says bye-bye to monsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='burnpsy' timestamp='1293133183' post='4877445'] Honestly, while I originally thought it was broken, in reality it's just another generic removal card. If people don't overextend, this card won't kill much. [/quote] I play two monsters then my opponent uses this and you get -1. It shouldn't be that easy to generate advantage especially when it does this all by itself. The problem with the "O, don't play to many monsters" is that' one of the key parts of the game and with this in the meta it encourages people to play really conservatively since at any given notice they can loss all of there cards. Also what is "overextending"? IMO playing 3 monsters would be a healthy amount of creatures on the field, but with that many your opponent gains a nice advantage just by dropping this card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpsy Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1293141509' post='4877964'] I play two monsters then my opponent uses this and you get -1. It shouldn't be that easy to generate advantage especially when it does this all by itself. The problem with the "O, don't play to many monsters" is that' one of the key parts of the game and with this in the meta it encourages people to play really conservatively since at any given notice they can loss all of there cards. Also what is "overextending"? IMO playing 3 monsters would be a healthy amount of creatures on the field, but with that many your opponent gains a nice advantage just by dropping this card. [/quote] That same post could have been about Torrential Tribute, but nobody has a problem with that. And which would you rather see, conservative play or reckless OTKing left and right? No matter what you do, one of those will be the dominant playstyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Unclean One: VK Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 Should be at 2. It helps with OTKs. And OTKs is what this game is all about. /seriouslylookatthepastdecks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='burnpsy' timestamp='1293142197' post='4878004'] That same post could have been about Torrential Tribute, but nobody has a problem with that. And which would you rather see, conservative play or reckless OTKing left and right? No matter what you do, one of those will be the dominant playstyle. [/quote] TT as a limited chance to be used so even though TT and Dark Hole are similar they aren't at the same level of generic mass removal. Even though Dark Hole encourages people to not overextend, they easier solution is to just go for an OTK, something this card only makes easier to do. Cause really, Hole can't hurt you if your opponent is already dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth_The_Legend Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 not as bad as one might think. Heavy Storm is worse. Easier to recover monster presence that Spells and Traps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Unclean One: VK Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Sephiroth_The_Legend' timestamp='1293145283' post='4878186'] not as bad as one might think. Heavy Storm is worse. Easier to recover monster presence that Spells and Traps. [/quote] For swarming auto-pilot meta decks, yes. For none-meta decks, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth_The_Legend Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 we're talking meta here. most of the current meta decks are able to rebuild easily from a loss of monsters. spells and traps are a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpsy Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1293145132' post='4878174'] TT as a limited chance to be used so even though TT and Dark Hole are similar they aren't at the same level of generic mass removal. Even though Dark Hole encourages people to not overextend, they easier solution is to just go for an OTK, something this card only makes easier to do. Cause really, Hole can't hurt you if your opponent is already dead. [/quote] While it's true that TT has a limited activation window, it's not an unreasonable one. The opponent performing the action that you want to cancel out is what triggers your ability to cancel it out. TT's timing hasn't really been a bother to me at all. Also, OTKs should theoretically be canceled out by the fact that Heavy was banned and thus the backrow is relevant again. We have things like Book of Moon, Mirror Force, and Battle Fader to stop OTKs. Without a mass-backrow wipe, it shouldn't really be an issue. I've been running OTK for who knows how long, and I can't really just spam one out whenever I want when I constantly see 2-3 face-downs in my way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Matt Bahamut' timestamp='1293128266' post='4877164'] You can have the trophy, other stuff means more (do [b]not[/b] insert mushy anime-style spirit of dueling speech). I choose death before dishonour. [/quote] [img]http://vulcanstev.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/honor.jpg?w=361&h=400[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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