Jump to content

~~THE MOST VERSATILE SPELL DESTROYER~~


Valkyrus

Recommended Posts

But knowing what the top Decks are using up-to-date is important to get an idea of what sort of interaction a card has with respect to the rest of the game =/

Why is my post inside your post so messy and incomplete? =0
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='The blazing MARS' timestamp='1307921307' post='5278738']
[center][img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090617031817/yugioh/images/thumb/c/c5/SolemnJudgmentGLD2-EN-GUR-LE.png/300px-SolemnJudgmentGLD2-EN-GUR-LE.png[/img]+[img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101104052006/yugioh/images/thumb/d/d4/MirrorForceSDMA-EN-C-1E.jpg/300px-MirrorForceSDMA-EN-C-1E.jpg[/img][/center]I know that's two cards, but that's complete protection from [b]everything[/b]
[/quote]

if they're set after Jinzo, they're useless.
also, Royal Decree, MST, and a bunch of other cards will destroy those

[quote name='Miror B.' timestamp='1307921341' post='5278739']
A staple is a card that can be added to ANY deck and increase it's power.Mirror Force is a staple because, no matter what deck you run, it gives you costless protection.This is not a staple.It is also broken.
[/quote]
okay.
How can that not help any deck and make it more powerful? Gets rid of half of the types of spells in existence, in any deck, for the cost of 2 trap cards, and on top you get a 2300 beatstick.
Also, have I ever mentioned I made this to be a staple? Even though, in fact, it is? No, I haven't.

Also, define broken, I don't know of such term when it comes to cardmaking. Is it something like your comment? Because I see no comment on my card other than "it's not staple" and "it's broken"

-______________-
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Gandorator' timestamp='1307922315' post='5278775']
Continuous Spells and Normal Spells are the most popular, so I can't touch those.
[/quote]
[spoiler=Quick Plays that are very popular]
[img]http://images.wikia.com/yugioh/images/7/7a/MysticalSpaceTyphoonSDMA-EN-C-1E.jpg[/img]
[img]http://images.wikia.com/yugioh/images/c/c7/ForbiddenLanceSTOR-EN-SR-1E.jpg[/img]
[img]http://images.wikia.com/yugioh/images/8/80/ForbiddenChaliceRGBT-EN-UR-1E.jpg[/img]
[img]http://images.wikia.com/yugioh/images/f/fb/BookofMoonTU01-EN-C-UE.jpg[/img]
[url=http://yugioh.wikia.com/index.php?title=Enemy_Controller&image=EnemyControllerSDSC-EN-C-1E-jpg][img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100724131911/yugioh/images/thumb/3/3c/EnemyControllerSDSC-EN-C-1E.jpg/291px-EnemyControllerSDSC-EN-C-1E.jpg[/img][/url]
[/spoiler]
I'd post more, but the wiki's slow on my comp right now.

[quote name='Gandorator' timestamp='1307923626' post='5278812']
Also, define broken, I don't know of such term when it comes to cardmaking. Is it something like your comment? Because I see no comment on my card other than "it's not staple" and "it's broken"
[/quote]
Way too strong.

[quote name='Gandorator' timestamp='1307923626' post='5278812']
if they're set after Jinzo, they're useless.
also, Royal Decree, MST, and a bunch of other cards will destroy those
[/quote]
Now it has come to my understanding that you have little understanding of the meta. Just because something can be countered does not mean they are bad. By your logic Pot of Greed should come back because Magic Jammer exists.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='sleepy' timestamp='1307922607' post='5278783']
But knowing what the top Decks are using up-to-date is important to get an idea of what sort of interaction a card has with respect to the rest of the game =/

Why is my post inside your post so messy and incomplete? =0
[/quote]

Why? The top decks are the only decks?
If I can make a single card, then can't I make my own deck to go with it?

I can.

When discussing a made-up card, like ALL of the ones on here, you compare them to ALL cards in the game, in terms of usefulness and balance, or if they belong to an existing Archetype; to the existing Archetype or group of cards it belongs to.

The top decks have nothing to do with my card.
I can make a deck that it goes with. And if I ever use this card, it'd be against another player who uses made-up cards like mine.
SO, what this cards needs is to be balanced and realistic, which I believe it is.

I don't intend to go on tournaments with it, as if I can.
I don't care about the meta either, most of my cards are anti-meta anyways.

Anyways, no idea why it changed when I quoted your comment.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Gandorator' timestamp='1307923626' post='5278812']
if they're set after Jinzo, they're useless.
[/quote]

If they're set after I destroy Jinzo with Shi en, they're useful.


[quote]I don't intend to go on tournaments with it, as if I can. [/quote]

But I do go to tournements, I practicially playtest everyday on duel network etc.
This is so easy to play around, offers free deck thinning for the foe for little to no loss.

You are trying to compare a card that shows up in almost every deck to a custom card that is actually quite slow. This would be wrecked by the meta. We're talking about a meta where games last 2 or 3 turns.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Miror B.' timestamp='1307924052' post='5278824']
[spoiler=Quick Plays that are very popular]
[img]http://images.wikia.com/yugioh/images/7/7a/MysticalSpaceTyphoonSDMA-EN-C-1E.jpg[/img]
[img]http://images.wikia.com/yugioh/images/c/c7/ForbiddenLanceSTOR-EN-SR-1E.jpg[/img]
[img]http://images.wikia.com/yugioh/images/8/80/ForbiddenChaliceRGBT-EN-UR-1E.jpg[/img]
[img]http://images.wikia.com/yugioh/images/f/fb/BookofMoonTU01-EN-C-UE.jpg[/img]
[url=http://yugioh.wikia.com/index.php?title=Enemy_Controller&image=EnemyControllerSDSC-EN-C-1E-jpg][img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100724131911/yugioh/images/thumb/3/3c/EnemyControllerSDSC-EN-C-1E.jpg/291px-EnemyControllerSDSC-EN-C-1E.jpg[/img][/url]
[/spoiler]
I'd post more, but the wiki's slow on my comp right now.


Way too strong.


Now it has come to my understanding that you have little understanding of the meta. Just because something can be countered does not mean they are bad. By your logic Pot of Greed should come back because Magic Jammer exists.
[/quote]

okay, let me rephrase, in most decks, there are more continuous and normal spells than any other type of spells.
If I destroyed those, this would become too OP'ed.

Also, I never said I understood the meta all that well, but that's not what I meant. What you said seemed like Mirror force and Solemn Judgement are always useful under any conditions. My examples showed that that's not true. They can be useful in most cases, but not in all.

And the quickplays you showed, not all of them are run in one deck. They're run wherever they're needed.
And in most cases it's only Book of moon+ MST.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Gandorator' timestamp='1307925025' post='5278874']
[b][1][/b]okay, let me rephrase, in most decks, there are more continuous and normal spells than any other type of spells.
If I destroyed those, this would become too OP'ed.

Also, I never said I understood the meta all that well, but that's not what I meant. What you said seemed like Mirror force and Solemn Judgement are always useful under any conditions. [b][3][/b]My examples showed that that's not true. They can be useful in most cases, but not in all.

[b][2][/b]And the quickplays you showed, not all of them are run in one deck. They're run wherever they're needed.
And in most cases it's only Book of moon+ MST.
[/quote]


[1]Lol. Not many decks run continuous, I run sams... I run 7 continuous spells. 1 Gateway and 2 Dojo, 3 United.

[2] Lance is quite popular at my locals. As is enemy controller(UP UP DOWN DOWN LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT A B!)

[3] Jinzo is pretty bad now TBH. Decree is easily played around.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='The blazing MARS' timestamp='1307924479' post='5278854']
[b]If they're set after I destroy Jinzo with Shi en, they're useful.[/b]




But I do go to tournements, I practicially playtest everyday on duel network etc.
This is so easy to play around, offers free deck thinning for the foe for little to no loss.

You are trying to compare a card that shows up in almost every deck to a custom card that is actually quite slow. This would be wrecked by the meta. We're talking about a meta where games last 2 or 3 turns.
[/quote]

@bolded part
completely irrelevant to the argument.

Also, games that last for 2 or 3 turns are retarded.
That's why the meta itself is retarded.
What's next, Zero-turn-kills?

There's not much future in the meta if it doesn't change.
And if the meta is retarded why should I make cards that go with it?

also, I wasn't the one who compared my card with MST.

[quote name='The blazing MARS' timestamp='1307925243' post='5278879']
[1]Lol. Not many decks run continuous, I run sams... I run 7 continuous spells. 1 Gateway and 2 Dojo, 3 United.


[2] Lance is quite popular at my locals. As is enemy controller(UP UP DOWN DOWN LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT A B!)
so? What number of quickplay spells is the biggest one

[3] Jinzo is pretty bad now TBH. Decree is easily played around.
[/quote]

1.
>> implying 7 continuous spells are not a lot.

2. So? I was saying something completely different. I meant the number of quickplay spells in a single deck. How many of them are there in one random deck compared to the usual number of continuous and normal spells in the same random deck.

3.
unrelated.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

C-c-c-Combo Breaker

It's a solid card. Besides having a really nice looking picture, the effect is hard hitting, in certain lights. The field spell part hurts the most, IMO. And even without the main effect, it still can hurt.
Nevertheless, I would run it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Gandorator' timestamp='1307924410' post='5278852']
Why? The top decks are the only decks?
If I can make a single card, then can't I make my own deck to go with it?

I can.

When discussing a made-up card, like ALL of the ones on here, you compare them to ALL cards in the game, in terms of usefulness and balance, or if they belong to an existing Archetype; to the existing Archetype or group of cards it belongs to.

The top decks have nothing to do with my card.
I can make a deck that it goes with. And if I ever use this card, it'd be against another player who uses made-up cards like mine.
SO, what this cards needs is to be balanced and realistic, which I believe it is.

I don't intend to go on tournaments with it, as if I can.
I don't care about the meta either, most of my cards are anti-meta anyways.

Anyways, no idea why it changed when I quoted your comment.
[/quote]

You seem to be misunderstanding my comments due to the interesting debate with multiple members going on in this thread.
I never took a side on telling you if your card is underpowered or overpowered. I just plain told you your card is not as versatile as the tittle implies.

The example of Solemn Judgment is an example of high versatility above. While it is true that it becomes useless with Jinzo or Royal Decree out, there are two counterarguments.
1) As it has already been stated, the ability to counter is almost irrelevant.
2) Your whole argument against Solemn Judgment comment is that you seem to want to prove that such a card is not versatile. While in reality, there are just a very small amount of cards that can prevent is usefulness. And yes, it will be a useful card most of the time. Your card's level of versatility can't even compare. It makes you loose 2 Traps as its Summoning Condition, making you loose very much needed card advantage. You DO realize that if the Summon is negated you just lost the equivalent to half of your initial hand?, for an effect that depending on the opponent you play against will be either pointless or unfairly broken. What have poor equips done to you? ;_;

But lets forget about other posts and focus on your response to mine:

So far as I've read, you not only don't know about meta Decks (just as you stated already), but you are not even treating them as part of the game. They simply don't count for you at all. Meta Decks (tier 1, and 2) and the Deck of interest (Ex: HERO for a HERO Deck, etc) are the first options to look at. Making sure it doesn't do anything broken with them. Then you move to the rest. The rest are usually underpowered as a whole in comparison, so other than some possible obscure combo made up with forgotten cards there is no real danger for abuse in there. In other words, its not a priority but yes you still are advised to check for those when planning a card.
If you don't take into account the meta at all, you are not making a real judgment on the card's balance from the very beginning.

Lastly, if your argument by any chance is that you don't care about the konami-made cards because they will never interact with your printed self-made copy. Then why put it up for everyone to comment on in here?

Remember: I'm trying to keep my posts as "friendly arguments". I'm not commenting on your card's balance but on your card's "versatility" alone. If anything in my posts states otherwise then it is just a counterargument against your post~

[quote name='Gandorator' timestamp='1307927435' post='5278946']
@bolded part
completely irrelevant to the argument.
[color=blue]You are the one that brought that up to begin with. Don't take it back now[/color]

Also, games that last for 2 or 3 turns are retarded.
That's why the meta itself is retarded.
What's next, Zero-turn-kills?

There's not much future in the meta if it doesn't change.
And if the meta is retarded why should I make cards that go with it?
[color=blue]Because you don't make cards to [i]complement[/i] the meta. You make cards making sure the meta doesn't break more (that's why its reelevant)
Right now there are at most like 8 or so cards guilty of today's meta and some aren't even released yet. Other than that the games I've had this banlist have been pretty long and control-based rather than OTK-based. One was even a 5-minute per turn per Duel (in the match) where we almost ran out of Deck without extra drawing[/color]

1.
>> implying 7 continuous spells are not a lot.

2. So? I was saying something completely different. I meant the number of quickplay spells in a single deck. How many of them are there in one random deck compared to the usual number of continuous and normal spells in the same random deck.

3.
unrelated.
[/quote]
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='sleepy' timestamp='1307934521' post='5279295']
[b]You seem to be misunderstanding my comments due to the interesting debate with multiple members going on in this thread.I never took a side on telling you if your card is underpowered or overpowered. I just plain told you your card is not as versatile as the tittle implies[/b].The example of Solemn Judgment is an example of high versatility above. While it is true that it becomes useless with Jinzo or Royal Decree out, there are two counterarguments.1) As it has already been stated, the ability to counter is almost irrelevant.2) Your whole argument against Solemn Judgment comment is that you seem to want to prove that such a card is not versatile. While in reality, there are just a very small amount of cards that can prevent is usefulness. And yes, it will be a useful card most of the time. Your card's level of versatility can't even compare. It makes you loose 2 Traps as its Summoning Condition, making you loose very much needed card advantage. You DO realize that if the Summon is negated you just lost the equivalent to half of your initial hand?, for an effect that depending on the opponent you play against will be either pointless or unfairly broken. What have poor equips done to you? ;_;But lets forget about other posts and focus on your response to mine:So far as I've read, you not only don't know about meta Decks (just as you stated already), but you are not even treating them as part of the game. They simply don't count for you at all. Meta Decks (tier 1, and 2) and the Deck of interest (Ex: HERO for a HERO Deck, etc) are the first options to look at. Making sure it doesn't do anything broken with them. Then you move to the rest. The rest are usually underpowered as a whole in comparison, so other than some possible obscure combo made up with forgotten cards there is no real danger for abuse in there. In other words, its not a priority but yes you still are advised to check for those when planning a card.If you don't take into account the meta at all, you are not making a real judgment on the card's balance from the very beginning.Lastly, if your argument by any chance is that you don't care about the konami-made cards because they will never interact with your printed self-made copy. Then why put it up for everyone to comment on in here?Remember: I'm trying to keep my posts as "friendly arguments". I'm not commenting on your card's balance but on your card's "versatility" alone. If anything in my posts states otherwise then it is just a counterargument against your post~
[/quote]

@ bolded.

in the opening post, right after the title, you can see me saying this: [quote name='Gandorator' timestamp='1307891924' post='5277337']
..that I've made.
[/quote]

which when you add it up together with the title says: The most versatile spell destroyer.. that I've made.

and I admit I wrote the title that way just to attract more people to my thread, yet I didn't lie about anything either.

Also, it's not like I don't care about the konami-made cards, I just don't have all the knowledge, nor do I intend to study the whole meta just so I can make a card.
Yet I try to make it realistic and playable and usually make it have an effect unique enough so that it doesn't possibly get abused by the meta.

and I'm not flaming either, it just bothers me how most people who comment are more, I don't know, offended(?) by my title than they are willing to give me advice on how to make my card better. I realize most of you people know the meta better than I do, so I was expecting someone to give me some advice instead of continuing pointless debates, although, in fact, I'm one of the people who continued it, but I've stopped.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='The blazing MARS' timestamp='1307970475' post='5280071']
[url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/No_Turn_Kill"]No Turn Kill(NTK/0TK)[/url]
[/quote]

[img]http://chaoticsignal.com/sizer/510/510/image/facepalm/facepalm_picard.jpg[/img]

is this even considered a game anymore?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Gandorator' timestamp='1307975342' post='5280182']
[img]http://chaoticsignal.com/sizer/510/510/image/facepalm/facepalm_picard.jpg[/img]

is this even considered a game anymore?
[/quote]

Those are almost impossible to do though.
Out of the winning seals:
NTK (No Turn Kill): It is either your opponent killing him/herself. Not very likely to happen as it defeats the purpose of the player playing the game.
FTK (First Turn Kill): Only burn effect Decks or Exodia can. None of which is currently very fast or reliable at the moment.
OTK (One Turn Kill): The main problem.
Everything else: N/A

Putting the [s]fun and enjoyable[/s] debate aside. I did put some suggestions in my comments somewhere (probably too mixed into everything else)

Here's the stuff:

I think the card is a little... heavy. 2 Traps Cards sound easy but out of 40, usually about 10 cards is the most you can see in a Deck (Except for Trap Monsters or Uria Decks). Also, Trap Cards are what stops your opponent's OTK moves usually. Taking them as payment for your monster is akin to lowering your Defensive effects a tad.
I'm not sure what to suggest on that though...
It crossed my mind that it could be something like:
[b]You can reveal this card in your hand and 2 Trap Cards you control to your opponent. Then, Special Summon this card from your hand and destroy those Trap Cards.[/b] ... Taking out the "can only be Special Summoned" and having the loss of your Traps not be a cost anymore. So they would not be lost if the Summon is negated. Also, some Traps benefit from being destroyed. The main problem of this is Stardust Dragon...

As I said before. A few Decks (only some [i]fun[/i] Decks actually) run centered on Equip Spell Cards. This card unfairly kills them in that case. Its like having a monster that destroys all of your opponents DARK monsters in the hand, Deck, or Graveyard, when facing a DARK Deck. You do instant win. That's my main problem with this.
I'd rather have it be more like Crush Card than taking out the Deck. Or maybe just the copies of the cards it already destroyed on the field and in the hand. Something along those lines.

Quick Plays are used as support and staples but no Deck is really [i]too[/i] dependent on them to be used, so I don't have a problem with them.

Field Spells should be a necessity but not something that will make a Deck loose if its not there. That said, I have no objections on this either. Although it kind of hits the fun side of Dragunity Decks. (Competitive Dragunities don't let their equips last too long on the field, but the rest Dragunities themselves have a lot of Dragons that want to stay equipped) You are hitting them both ways against their Dragons, and against their Field Spell Card. I just have to say lol to this as I am not sure if this is bad, good, or what... You do the judgment I just state a fact.

I am indecisive between making it less costy to get out but balancing its effect some more, or letting it as is and the possibility of plainly killing certain Decks....
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='sleepy' timestamp='1307991529' post='5280779']
Those are almost impossible to do though.
Out of the winning seals:
NTK (No Turn Kill): It is either your opponent killing him/herself. Not very likely to happen as it defeats the purpose of the player playing the game.
FTK (First Turn Kill): Only burn effect Decks or Exodia can. None of which is currently very fast or reliable at the moment.
OTK (One Turn Kill): The main problem.
Everything else: N/A

Putting the [s]fun and enjoyable[/s] debate aside. I did put some suggestions in my comments somewhere (probably too mixed into everything else)

Here's the stuff:

I think the card is a little... heavy. 2 Traps Cards sound easy but out of 40, usually about 10 cards is the most you can see in a Deck (Except for Trap Monsters or Uria Decks). Also, Trap Cards are what stops your opponent's OTK moves usually. Taking them as payment for your monster is akin to lowering your Defensive effects a tad.
I'm not sure what to suggest on that though...
It crossed my mind that it could be something like:
[b]You can reveal this card in your hand and 2 Trap Cards you control to your opponent. Then, Special Summon this card from your hand and destroy those Trap Cards.[/b] ... Taking out the "can only be Special Summoned" and having the loss of your Traps not be a cost anymore. So they would not be lost if the Summon is negated. Also, some Traps benefit from being destroyed. The main problem of this is Stardust Dragon...

As I said before. A few Decks (only some [i]fun[/i] Decks actually) run centered on Equip Spell Cards. This card unfairly kills them in that case. Its like having a monster that destroys all of your opponents DARK monsters in the hand, Deck, or Graveyard, when facing a DARK Deck. You do instant win. That's my main problem with this.
I'd rather have it be more like Crush Card than taking out the Deck. Or maybe just the copies of the cards it already destroyed on the field and in the hand. Something along those lines.

Quick Plays are used as support and staples but no Deck is really [i]too[/i] dependent on them to be used, so I don't have a problem with them.

Field Spells should be a necessity but not something that will make a Deck loose if its not there. That said, I have no objections on this either. Although it kind of hits the fun side of Dragunity Decks. (Competitive Dragunities don't let their equips last too long on the field, but the rest Dragunities themselves have a lot of Dragons that want to stay equipped) You are hitting them both ways against their Dragons, and against their Field Spell Card. I just have to say lol to this as I am not sure if this is bad, good, or what... You do the judgment I just state a fact.

I am indecisive between making it less costy to get out but balancing its effect some more, or letting it as is and the possibility of plainly killing certain Decks....
[/quote]

well, aren't there other existing cards that kill certain decks?
like how royal decree and Jinzo kill Trap Monster decks or something similar.
But yeah, I agree, this is different, this doesn't just block those spells, it destroys them.
But then again, there are cards like the virus cards that, even if it's for a limited time, destroy all spells, and not just certain types. But I assume by the end of the 4th(?) turn your opponent would have lost without spells.

as for Equips, as far as I know, there aren't many decks that center around them. Maybe Gilford the legend decks, but in that case my card would actually help him. A lot.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any monster that can search all face-down, back-row cards on the field just for being summoned is powerful.
Any monster that can check the hand is kinda powerful.
Any monster than can allow you to see your opponent's entire deck is kinda powerful.
Any monster that can do all of this at once is very powerful.
Any monster that does all of this whilst at the same time destroying only field, equip and quickplays is.... ridiculous.

This card is like going up a roller coaster, then realizing that it ended just as you got to the top of the first hill. Lots of build up, not a lot of payoff.

Bottom line, because of the way you worded the effect you must be able to prove that there are none of the aforementioned cards anywhere on the field, the hand, or the deck. This means that you can scope EVERYTHING. That is terribly powerful.

And after that, you can maybe destroy something? Get rid of some necrovalleys, some MST, some scrapstorm maybe?

So while sending all of the spells to the graveyard isn't so terrifying, being able to scope every hidden card in the process is what i see this card being OPed for.

6/10

Oh, and i appreciate the extra large card image. I have bad eyesight, so i could see the details quite well this way. =]
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Kale' timestamp='1308073475' post='5282856']
Any monster that can search all face-down, back-row cards on the field just for being summoned is powerful.
Any monster that can check the hand is kinda powerful.
Any monster than can allow you to see your opponent's entire deck is kinda powerful.
Any monster that can do all of this at once is very powerful.
Any monster that does all of this whilst at the same time destroying only field, equip and quickplays is.... ridiculous.

This card is like going up a roller coaster, then realizing that it ended just as you got to the top of the first hill. Lots of build up, not a lot of payoff.

Bottom line, because of the way you worded the effect you must be able to prove that there are none of the aforementioned cards anywhere on the field, the hand, or the deck. This means that you can scope EVERYTHING. That is terribly powerful.

And after that, you can maybe destroy something? Get rid of some necrovalleys, some MST, some scrapstorm maybe?

So while sending all of the spells to the graveyard isn't so terrifying, being able to scope every hidden card in the process is what i see this card being OPed for.

6/10

Oh, and i appreciate the extra large card image. I have bad eyesight, so i could see the details quite well this way. =]
[/quote]

this doesn't really let you check anything. It says it in the card, [i]your opponent[/i] checks their cards.
"then your opponent checks their Deck,hand,field."
It only destroys the spells without any other plus to it~

Thanks for the feedback anyways ^^
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...