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Six Samurai/Kizan/Shi En/Any Synchro

Resident Fascist

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Dr. Cakey Newbie

Dr. Cakey

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Half the people here have no concept of what a banlist even is. Yu-Gi-Oh! does not run on a rotation system - the banlist does not exist to cycle decks out of play. It exists to manage cards that have a deleterious effect on the game. In other words, saying "Limit Kagemusha" is the pinnacle of stupidity, because there is nothing broken about an 1800 DEF Tuner that changes the target of a Spell/Trap Card. Kageki is an archetype-specific Marauding Captain, without the attack-lock effect. Kizan is Bora the Spear. BANBANBAN. Honestly, you people...

[b]Gateway of the Six: Banned[/b]
I do not approve of Infinite Advantage engines. Hopefully neither do you.

There, now Six Sams aren't outright [i]insane[/i]. Now let's crack our knuckles and look at the other main powerhouses of the Six Samurai:
Six Samurai United
Double-Edged Sword Technique
Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En

United helps replenish the quickly depleted Six Sam hand, and promotes over-extention, to some degree. This can backfire, of course, when hit by a well-timed MST. Double-Edged Sword Technique's effect can be summarized as, "Activate after your first turn. Special Summon 1 "Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En" from your Extra Deck.", which is ridiculous. And Shi En is...Shi En.

DEST actively and immediately produces advantage, just by being played. However, the only really good use for it is Shi En. Otherwise your monsters will disappear at the end of the turn, and can be used for little more than to hopefully push for game. So we can say that DEST relies on the existence of Shi En to be good.

[b]Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En: Limited[/b]
If you can't deal with one Shi En, you shouldn't be playing this game.

Six Samurai United...warrants further study.
[b]
Final Tally:
Newly Banned Cards:
Gateway of the Six

Newly Limited Cards:
Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En

Newly Semi-Limited Cards:
Chamberlain of the Six Samurai[/b]
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Resident Fascist Newbie

Resident Fascist

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[quote name='機皇神龍アステリスク' timestamp='1308602780' post='5298380']
If you can't deal with one Shi En, you shouldn't be playing this game.
[/quote]

Someone smart agrees with me. I love how everyone thinks I'm bad by saying "If you can't get past a Shi En, your bad at the game" and then someone blatantly says it outright.

Also all these cards can own Shi en:

Caius(RFP it)
Brionac
Penguin Soldier
Solemn Judgment
Solemn Warning
Warrior Elimination(If they've already negged)
Hyperion(Run dat' shi en ovah wif' yo' 2700 ATK)
Trishula
Gungnir

...

There's so many more.
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evilfusion Newbie

evilfusion

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[quote name='Ｔｈｅ ｂｌａｚｉｎｇ ＭＡＲＳ' timestamp='1308603341' post='5298425']
Someone smart agrees with me. [b]I love how everyone thinks I'm bad by saying "If you can't get past a Shi En, your bad at the game" and then someone blatantly says it outright.[/b]
Also all these cards can own Shi en:

Caius(RFP it)
Brionac
Penguin Soldier
Solemn Judgment
Solemn Warning
Warrior Elimination(If they've already negged)
Hyperion(Run dat' shi en ovah wif' yo' 2700 ATK)
Trishula
Gungnir

...

There's so many more.
[/quote]

If I recall correctly, you indicated that Shi En wasn't a threat, when it's obviously a card one has to struggle against, particularly due to their consistency, and when asked what to use to defeat Shi En, you said "negate its Summon" and "use Kinetic Soldier".

And now I see 2 Summon negation cards, 3 Synchro monsters, a boss monster requiring you to run a specific deck (Agents), a random tech card (Penguin) and a Spell that's just stupid, even as a Side deck choice.

The problem with Shi En is that even if you managed to get the cards to defeat it in your hand, you still need to actually succeed in playing them. Samurai have this nasty tendency to have Solemn Warning or that Six Samurai Infernity Barrier card down, if not DEST to bring out another Shi En even if you did kill the first.

Now, if I had to hit 3 Samurai cards:

Gateway: Banned
Shi En: Banned, but I see Limited.
DEST: Limit
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Yeezus Newbie

Yeezus

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First turn Shi En is one of the most deadly moves in the game.
You will have to go seriously minus on yourself to get rid of it, provided the sam player is a decent player and won't just randomly summon Shi En with no protection for stuff like cause.
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Boss Z Newbie

Boss Z

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Bitchy-est b****es that ever did b**** the b**** game... I can deal with 1, but whenever i play against sixsam the opponent always gets 2 in 1 turn... and both of my decks rely heavily on their spell cards... yeah... there is a problem there...
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JadenxAtemYAOI Newbie

JadenxAtemYAOI

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[quote name='Ctrl+Alt+Win' timestamp='1308495348' post='5295081']
Yea = Slang

Your = ....Ya sorry.



This works.

[b]Also Limit Macro cosmos and D. Fissure :/

They're [color="#00FFFF"][i]fix'd[/i][/color] just annoying decks that waste time.[/b][/quote]
It's good to keep them semi'd or whatever the hell they are now. They're a good anti-meta against the meta decks that focus on the grave for OTK's. As for my opinion on those three cards I say limit all three and if one needs banned just nerf it.
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Catterjune Newbie

Catterjune

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[quote]Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En: Limited
If you can't deal with one Shi En, you shouldn't be playing this game.[/quote]
That's bullshit. AND HERE'S WHY!

The only way to legit get around a broken card is by using other cards of ranging brokeness. If you're facing down a 2500 attack beater with Caius in hand, then pretty much the only thing you're relying on is the Infinite Advantage Engine of Treeborn or other over powered cards like Debris Dragon + Dandylion into Black Rose or into Gugnir or Brionac, and a bunch of other cards and combos that rightfully deserve to be banned.

Secondly, and most importantly, when a card centralizes a meta so much that it becomes "get over this card or you WILL lose the duel" that's a pretty big problem. I don't wanna play a game where I HAVE to have a counter trap or effect effect monster that will cause destruction (or spinning or bouncing) at ALL points in the game or I WILL lose. Especially when the card I'm looking to stop can come out so easily.

[quote]Also all these cards can own Shi en:

Caius(RFP it)
Brionac
Penguin Soldier
Solemn Judgment
Solemn Warning
Warrior Elimination(If they've already negged)
Hyperion(Run dat' shi en ovah wif' yo' 2700 ATK)
Trishula
Gungnir[/quote]
Counterability does [u]NOT[/u] imply balance, because every single card on the banlist can be countered in some way.

Christ, it's like you idiots came back from 2009 when you were all still terrible.
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evilhorus Newbie

evilhorus

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[quote name='Ｔｈｅ ｂｌａｚｉｎｇ ＭＡＲＳ' timestamp='1308603341' post='5298425']
Someone smart agrees with me. I love how everyone thinks I'm bad by saying "If you can't get past a Shi En, your bad at the game" and then someone blatantly says it outright.

Also all these cards can own Shi en:

Caius(RFP it)
Brionac
Penguin Soldier
Solemn Judgment
Solemn Warning
Warrior Elimination(If they've already negged)
Hyperion(Run dat' shi en ovah wif' yo' 2700 ATK)
Trishula
Gungnir

...

There's so many more.
[/quote]




I can use Solemn Warning on Chaos Emperor Dragon.
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Dr. Cakey Newbie

Dr. Cakey

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[quote name='PikaPerson01' timestamp='1308609322' post='5298768']
That's bullshit. AND HERE'S WHY!

<SNIP>
[/quote]
The difference between Shi En and most other "broken" cards is that it doesn't lay waste to all creation just by existing. It grinds down the opponent. It's tricky to deal with, but relatively easy to hit over. Its power comes from the fact that Six Samurai can get out at least one Shi En just about every turn, and back it up with their Kizans and Grandmasters [s]and Shoguns[/s] to swing for gaem, or at least bite out a sizable chunk of Life Points.

Suppose you only had one Shi En to play with. A single Solemn Warning would render your powerhouse void (it can't be revived, and Six Sams wouldn't run much in the way of recycling). Even if it's destroyed in battle or by [s]Sakuretsu Armor[/s] Scrap Dragon, DEST would only get it back for a turn unless you're willing to jump through some hoops.

Is it still an extremely powerful card? No doubt. But I think it would be reasonable at 1.

[quote name='PikaPerson01' timestamp='1308609322' post='5298768']
Christ, it's like you idiots came back from 2009 when you were all still terrible.
[/quote]
Wait, then that means I'm not terrible...

:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

EDIT: Pros take out Shi En with Nordic Relic Laevateinn.
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marcher boyz Newbie

marcher boyz

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http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/what-should-be-banned.html

[quote]Japan has also shown signs of a soft-ban on another character in Super Turbo. I bring up this example because it lives on the threshold. It is just on the edge of what is reasonable to ban because it is "too good." Anything less than this would not be reasonable, so perhaps others can use it as a benchmark to decide what is reasonable in their games.

The character in question is the mysteriously named "Old Sagat." Old Sagat is not a secret character like Akuma (or at least he's not as secret!). Old Sagat does not have any moves like Akuma's air fireball that the game was not designed to handle. Old Sagat is arguably the best character in the game (Akuma, of course, doesn't count), but even that is debated by top players! [b]I think almost any expert player would rank him in the top three of all characters, but there isn't even universal agreement that he is the best![/b] Why, then, would any reasonable person even consider banning him? Surely, it must be a group of scrubs who simply don't know how to beat him, and reflexively cry out for a ban.

But this is not the case. There seems to be a tacit agreement amongst top players in Japan--a soft ban--on playing Old Sagat. [b]The reason is that many believe the game to have much more variety without Old Sagat. Even if he is only second best in the game by some measure, he flat out beats half the characters in the game with little effort. Half the cast can barely even fight him, let alone beat him. Other top characters in the game, good as they are, win by much more interaction and more "gameplay." Almost every character has a chance against the other best characters in the game. The result of allowing Old Sagat in tournaments is that several other characters, such as Chun Li and Ken, become basically unviable.[/b]

If someone had made these claims in the game's infancy, no sort of ban would be warranted. Further testing through tournaments would be warranted. But we now have ten years of testing. We don't have all Old Sagat vs. Old Sagat matches in tournaments, but we do know which characters can't beat him and as a result are very rarely played in America. We likewise can see that this same category of characters flourishes in Japan, where Old Sagats are rare and only played by the occasional violator of the soft ban. It seems that the added variety of viable characters might outweigh the lack of Old Sagat. Is this ban warranted then? To be honest, I am not totally convinced that it is, but it is just barely in the ballpark of reasonableness since there is a decade of data on which to base the claim.[/quote]

this is scary :blink:

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