Card Quality

[-Lightray Daedalus-]

[quote name='King of Nothing' timestamp='1308871266' post='5306192']
I actually hate the whole idea of archetypes. I miss the old yugioh, where you put in cards that you liked in order to win. Now it seems like it's just whatever archetype is dominating the meta.
[/quote]

Well Teledad format was dominated by a nonarchetype deck...

[King of Nothing]

[quote name='Ｔｈｅ ｓｕｐｐｒｅｓｓｉｏｎ ＰＬＵＴＯ' timestamp='1308871569' post='5306206']
Well Teledad format was dominated by a nonarchetype deck...
[/quote]
Yeah, but I considered the entire attribute of dark during than an "Archetype".
What I mean is that I miss the days when one deck didn't dominate. Monsters were weak, so a deck had to be a bit more dependent on spells and traps.

[Vough]

[quote name='King of Nothing' timestamp='1308871667' post='5306214']
Yeah, but I considered the entire attribute of dark during than an "Archetype".
What I mean is that I miss the days when one deck didn't dominate. Monsters were weak, so a deck had to be a bit more dependent on spells and traps.
[/quote]

Kind of like the GX Era (After the ruling of Behemoth)
Decks were filled with Staples and cards that you liked, and Vanillas were kind of good because they were still mostly the strongest.

But WAY back in the beginning, well I remember my first Deck used Archfiend Soldier, 3 Blue-Eyes, Fushioh Richie, Great Dezard, and such. Those were the days.

[-Lightray Daedalus-]

Back in the day Reflect Bounder was Broken...XD

[Airride]

I can Find plenty of cards that Are useful in it's own deck, be it competitive or not. Like it or not, Konami also appeals to For-Fun players with anime cards that are situational, Cards tat are rather useless in Competitive play, or otherwise actually...Kinda poor.

[-Lightray Daedalus-]

Quoting the awesome article....

1. By definition, some bad cards have to exist. (The most important reason.)
2. Some cards are “bad” because they aren’t meant for you.
3. Some cards are “bad” because they’re designed for a less advanced player.
4. Some cards are “bad” because the right deck for them doesn’t exist yet.
5. “Bad” cards reward the more skilled player.
6. Some players enjoy discovering good “bad” cards.
7. Some “bad” cards are simply R&D goofing up.

[Dr. Cakey]

That article makes me want to play Magic sooooooo much...

Most of the responses to "OMG BAD CARDZ" are "they were good at the time". Well, let's see what was "good at the time" when Extreme Victory came out.

EXVC-EN000 Reborn Tengu (Super Rare) [b]Needs no introduction.[/b]
EXVC-EN001 Junk Servant (Rare) [b]Hm...pretty bland design, but if Junk was somehow a tier deck, this would probably be an essential ingredient.[/b]
EXVC-EN002 Unknown Synchron (Common) [b]It qualifies for like...half the searching in the game.[/b]
EXVC-EN003 Salvage Warrior (Rare) [b]Low ATK, but when it revives a Tuner, who cares?[/b]
EXVC-EN004 Necro Defender (Rare) [b]Baws card design, but whatever that thing is, it rapes children.[/b]
EXVC-EN005 Mystic Piper (Secret Rare) [b]Piper Control... [/b]
EXVC-EN006 Force Resonator (Common) [b]Eh. Lots of things target, and I think more will in the future, but limited to while attacking? This game will, I think, tend to move toward chainable Traps/Traps with activation conditions outside the Battle Phase.[/b]
EXVC-EN007 Clock Resonator (Common) [b]The fact that it doesn't get its effect if attacked while Set kind of roons it. It can't take an OTK by surprise, so...[/b]
EXVC-EN008 Blackwing - Hillen the Tengu-wind (Super Rare) [b]I'm...not sure. Basically any deck [i]now[/i] will tend to either chip away with less than 2000 ATK or roll right over your poor Blackwing wall.[/b]
EXVC-EN009 Blackwing - Kogarashi the Wanderer (Ultra Rare/Ultimate Rare) [b]Actually, if the meta takes some kind of odd, drastic shift (and for some reason Synchros come back), this could be handy.[/b]
EXVC-EN010 Morphtronic Lantron (Common) [b]There are a dozen cards that do either (or both) of what it does, only better.[/b]
EXVC-EN011 Morphtronic Staplen (Common) [b]Fun, and halfway decent at stalling, but this couldn't be tiered no matter the meta.[/b]
EXVC-EN012 Meklord Army of Wisel (Common) [b]Max ATK: 2200. How am I supposed to have 5 Meklords out?[/b]
EXVC-EN013 Meklord Army of Skiel (Common) [b]I'll share with you a little secret: I think Konami thinks the Meklords are like new GKs.[/b]
EXVC-EN014 Meklord Army of Granel (Rare) [b]Even if there's some mysterious future card that lets me continuously recycle this guy's effect...so what?[/b]
EXVC-EN015 Meklord Astro Dragon Asterisk (Super Rare) [b]Now, see, this could be useful, if the Meklord archetype was boosted by another half-dozen members. And they were godly. Except, oh wait, this is an anime archetype, and 5D's is over.[/b]
EXVC-EN016 T.G. Cyber Magician (Super Rare) [b]Tech Genus suffers from the same fate as Meklords.[/b]
EXVC-EN017 T.G. Striker (Rare) [b]The problem with pure T.G.s is that each monster has a different Level. There's no way to match them up to easily get your T.G. Synchros. Your always stuck with a Striker and a Rush Rhino or a Cyber Magician and a Catapult Dragon.[/b]
EXVC-EN018 T.G. Jet Falcon (Common) [b]lol[/b]
EXVC-EN019 T.G. Catapult Dragon (Common) [b]...I mean, the effect's not [i]bad[/i]...[/b]
EXVC-EN020 T.G. Warwolf (Common) [b]Warwolf could easily be a usable card.[/b]
EXVC-EN021 T.G. Rush Rhino (Rare) [b]So...it's Topaz Tiger? How much play does he see?[/b]
EXVC-EN022 Buster Blaster (Rare) [b]Buster Shotman is odd because, in order to gain advantage off it, your opponent needs to be pushing for game, and then you need to recover with something stronger. It relies on your opponent to be winning, and then it relies on you turning it around...just to play this one monster (or you could use Ojama Trio)[/b]
EXVC-EN023 Esper Girl (Common) [b]Psychics win gaemz[/b]
EXVC-EN024 Mental Seeker (Common) [b]That effect is interesting, isn't it?[/b]
EXVC-EN025 Silent Psychic Wizard (Super Rare) [b]He's like a Psychic Monster Reborn...if you don't fall into a trap. Decent, but slow.[/b]
EXVC-EN026 Serene Psychic Witch (Common) [b]I suspect there will be no more RFG Psychics (I mean, Banished Psychics (I mean, Time Psychics)), but if there were, this could be the backbone of an intriguing sort of control build (if they actually started being made that way).[/b]
EXVC-EN027 Hushed Psychic Cleric (Rare) [b]Abuse meh, get dat quasar[/b]
EXVC-EN028 Elder of the Six Samurai (Common) [b]+ Ascetism -> Kagemusha -> Shi En. I actually made an ordinary Synchro deck that tried to use this...but I never tested it.[/b]
EXVC-EN029 Shien's Advisor (Super Rare) [b]Or, you could use one of a dozen other cards...[/b]
EXVC-EN030 Karakuri Komachi mdl 224 “Ninishi” (Common) [b]Karakuris use it. Well.[/b]
EXVC-EN031 Karakuri Ninja mdl 7749 “Nanashick” (Common) [b]If the game was slow enough that you could consistently profit off this, no one would play.[/b]
EXVC-EN032 Scrap Kong (Common) [b]*Hurk*[/b]
EXVC-EN033 Tradetoad (Rare) [b]dat substitoad. It basically does the thing Substitoad does, but without the part that made Substitoad bannable. So...it's bad.[/b]
EXVC-EN034 Gladiator Beast Tygerius (Common) [b]NO, THIS WILL NEVER BE USEFUL. IT'S NOT LANISTA, BUT IT SUCKS AND IT SPITS IN ESSEDARI'S FACE, WHICH MAKES IT EVEN MORE STUPID.[/b]
EXVC-EN035 Jar Turtle (Common) [b]As awesome as this is, when's the last time support cards for a [i]specific card[/i] were playable?[/b]
EXVC-EN036 Aurora Paragon (Common) [b]By Order of the Emperor. Now, just get us two more cards with Order's effect, and we can have fun.[/b]
EXVC-EN037 Junk Berserker (Ultra Rare/Ultimate Rare/Ghost Rare) [b]I think that the YGO players, as a community, may never fully recover from this card.[/b]
EXVC-EN038 Life Stream Dragon (Ultra Rare/Ultimate Rare) [b]Life's Beauty Howl (Quick-Play Spell Card) Activate when your Life Points become exactly 4000. Inflict 8000 damage to your opponent.[/b]
EXVC-EN039 T.G. Recipro Dragonfly (Rare) [b]The best part is that T.G.s can't summon this.[/b]
EXVC-EN040 T.G. Wonder Magician (Ultra Rare/Ultimate Rare) [b]What? It's good.[/b]
EXVC-EN041 T.G. Power Gladiator (Super Rare) [b]2300 ATK? Really?[/b]
EXVC-EN042 T.G. Blade Blaster (Ultra Rare/Ultimate Rare) [b]No, he's cool. He's basically unkillable, since he can banish himself out of harm's way.[/b]
EXVC-EN043 T.G. Halberd Cannon (Ultra Rare/Ultimate Rare) [b]It's like Shooting Quasar except...not as good.[/b]
EXVC-EN044 Overmind Archfiend (Ultra Rare/Ultimate Rare) [b]2 or more non-Tuners? Really?[/b]
EXVC-EN045 Scarlet Security (Common) [b]I said something about Jar Turtle. The same goes here.[/b]
EXVC-EN046 Red Dragon Vase (Common) [b]I said something about...oh, you know already.[/b]
EXVC-EN047 Resonator Call (Rare) [b]How generic. If Resonators were good, this would be fantastic. Simple as that.[/b]
EXVC-EN048 Resonant Destruction (Common) [b]Why'd it have to destroy itself?[/b]
EXVC-EN049 Fortissimo the Mobile Fortress (Common) [b]lol[/b]
EXVC-EN050 Boon of the Meklord Emperor (Common) [b]...F*** YOU KONAMI WE BOTH KNOW EVEN IF THIS CARD HAD ITS ANIME EFFECT IT STILL WOULDN'T BE BROKEN SO WHAT THE HELL DID YOU DO THIS FOR???????????[/b]
EXVC-EN051 The Resolute Meklord Army (Common) [b]I don't even get it. I mean, what's the point?[/b]
EXVC-EN052 Reboot (Common) [b]Hey it's like Monster Reincarnation except terrible. WTF?[/b]
EXVC-EN053 TGX1-HL (Common) [b]I freely acknowledge that this could be used if backrow presence became all the rage.[/b]
EXVC-EN054 TGX300 (Common) [b]I feel like I should point out that this card is arguably outclassed by Graceful Dice.[/b]
EXVC-EN055 ESP Amplifier (Common) [b]I feel like I should point out that this card is arguably outclssed by TGX300.[/b]
EXVC-EN056 Psychic Feel Zone (Rare) [b]Doesn't OTK. So it's bad. Or something idk[/b]
EXVC-EN057 Shien's Dojo (Super Rare) [b]It's good. Or something idk[/b]
EXVC-EN058 Runaway Karakuri (Common) [b]What's with some of these Karakuri support cards?[/b]
EXVC-EN059 Contact with the Aquamirror (Common) [b]-1, -1, -1, -1...look, how many good -1s are there besides Foolish Burial. In the HISTORY of YGO?[/b]
EXVC-EN060 Soundproofed (Rare) [b]Except Konami thinks the era of Synchros is over...whatever *plays [s]Large Heat Wave[/s] Solemn Warning.[/b]
EXVC-EN061 Out of the Blue (Common) [b]As someone else pointed out, the irony is that it's not out of the blue.[/b]
EXVC-EN062 Self-Mummification (Common) [b]This and ONE other card in EXVC are [i]so[/i] ridiculous (and aren't involved with Meklords) I don't see how they even exist. I'd say it's a breed of joke card, but YGO doesn't [i]have[/i] joke cards.[/b]
EXVC-EN063 Red Carpet (Common) [b]*Waits for good Resonators*[/b]
EXVC-EN064 Power-Up Adapter (Common) [b]Outclassed by Union Attack. Let me repeat that. UNION ATTACK. How old is that card?[/b]
EXVC-EN065 Chaos Infinity (Rare) [b]Imagine if a deck even a tiny bit better had a card like this. Oh, then it would be called Shien's Dojo.[/b]
EXVC-EN066 Mektimed Blast (Common) [b]Winged Beasts get Icarus Attack. Reptiles get Offerings to the Snake Deity. Meklords get this.[/b]
EXVC-EN067 Meklord Factory (Common) [b]Worse than Reboot, if possible.[/b]
EXVC-EN068 TGX3-DX2 (Rare) [b]Nice draw card.[/b]
EXVC-EN069 TG-SX1 (Common) [b]The fact that it specifies a Synchro Monster is silly. Couldn't we just have gotten Double Type Rescue?[/b]
EXVC-EN070 TG1-EM1 (Common) [b]Creature Swap as a Trap is quite fun.[/b]
EXVC-EN071 Psychic Reactor (Common) [b]But I don't have any Psychics all I have is this Shooting Quasar Dragon. wat do?[/b]
EXVC-EN072 Brain Hazard (Rare) [b]Nice name. Fine card.[/b]
EXVC-EN073 Six Style - Dual Wield (Common) [b]The reasons Sams don't use it is because there's no space. Which means it might be playable.[/b]
EXVC-EN074 Karakuri Cash Shed (Super Rare) [b]Well, if Karakuris ever spend large amounts of time in face-up Defense, and if S/Ts start winning games intead of preventing game wins...maybe?[/b]
EXVC-EN075 Tyrant’s Tantrum (Common) [b]Sure, I'll Tribute 2 monsters in order to thin my opponent's deck.[/b]
EXVC-EN076 Debunk (Super Rare) [b]Solid sideboard card.[/b]
EXVC-EN077 Sealing Ceremony of Mokuton (Common) [b]Obviously you're supposed to use it as a +0 when your monster would be destroyed, but even then it's not really good.[/b]
EXVC-EN078 Safe Zone (Super Rare) [b]What a strange card...and I've never used it, have I?[/b]
EXVC-EN079 Localized Tornado (Common) [b]...this is the other one. I don't even care if it's tiered, just someone come up with [i]any[/i] deck that can use this to its advantage.[/b]
EXVC-EN080 W Nebula Meteorite (Common) [b]Look at W Nebula Meteorite. Now back at Localized Tornado. Meteorite. Tornado. These belong to the same game. They were made by the same people. AND THEY ARE THE SAME RARITY.[/b]
EXVC-EN081 Vampire Dragon (Secret Rare) [b]2400 ATK just won't cut it anymore, unless you're a Monarch.[/b]
EXVC-EN082 Dodger Dragon (Super Rare) [b]Hey, we know what it does. Did it actually end up working out in dragons? I tried it in some deck of mine, decided to swap it out for Breaker. How old is Breaker again?[/b]
EXVC-EN083 Mara of the Nordic Alfar (Ultra Rare/Ultimate Rare) [b]You look at this card in three stages. It has no interesting uses.[/b]
EXVC-EN084 Tour Guide From the Underworld (Secret Rare) [b]Who knows what more madness will come from liberal use of Tour Guide?[/b]
EXVC-EN085 Psi-Beast (Rare) [b]I like how it dumps whatever you want. Is it good?[/b]
EXVC-EN086 Gladiator Beast Essedarii (Ultra Rare/Ultimate Rare) [b]2500 ATK. You're welcome.[/b]
EXVC-EN087 Gladiator Taming (Secret Rare) [b]Moar GB hate...because.[/b]
EXVC-EN088 Full House (Rare) [b]I want to see the format this is playable in.[/b]
EXVC-EN089 Psychic Shockwave (Secret Rare) [b]Too situational.[/b]
EXVC-EN090 Axe Dragonute (Common) [b]Outclassed by Gene-Warped Warwolf[/b]
EXVC-EN091 Lancer Dragonute (Super Rare) [b]He has a brother named Lancer Lindwurm, who was spared the brain tumor.[/b]
EXVC-EN092 Lancer Lindwurm (Common) [b]See?[/b]
EXVC-EN093 Elemental Hero Neos Knight (Ultra Rare/Ultimate Rare) [b]Can you spell Omni Hero?[/b]
EXVC-EN094 Meklord Emperor Skiel (Secret Rare) [b]evilfusion likes it, so I dunno, it must be the best Machine Emperor. In all seriousness, why do you have to send the equipped monster to the Graveyard?[/b]
EXVC-EN095 Meklord Fortress (Rare) [b]Too specific.[/b]
EXVC-EN096 Blackwing - Jin the Rain Shadow (Rare) [b]Oh Blackwings, how you have fallen. But we knew that already.[/b]
EXVC-EN097 Scrap Orthros (Secret Rare) [b]Handy.[/b]
EXVC-EN098 Naturia Eggplant (Super Rare) [b]Remember when people were all hyped up about Bambooshoot? Now...Naturias sadface again. Good archetype support, though.[/b]
EXVC-EN099 Blue Rose Dragon (Secret Rare) [b]It's...cute. I was designing a Fragrance Storm deck and put it in. Then I noticed the bit where it had to be destroyed by the opponent. Then I noticed the bit where it was a Dragon.[/b]

So are many of these cards debatably playable in some hypothetical future? Maybe. But I will make an oath here and now. Everybody take this down, so they can hold me to it:

[size="6"]If, at any time that I am still active on YCM, a deck containing any number of the following cards in the main deck tops a tournament at a Regional level or higher (including YCS), I will give away my entire collection of cards, delete my Duel Monsters Genesis account, and do something really degrading (TBD).

List of cards:
Self-Mummification
Localized Tornado
Boon of the Meklord Emperors
Unfortunate Report
Solomon's Lawbook

and, for good measure...Urchin Bomb[/size]

[size="1"]EDIT: If this user can come up with a suitable excuse, he may declare certain instances null and void for the purposes of this oath.[/size]

[Flame Dragon]

O, because I love MTG where another reason why bad cards are less bad there then in yugioh. MTG has Limited formats where you only play with cards you open in a booster back. These are normally either booster draft or sealed meaning cards that wouldn't see constructed play in say standard or extended have a chance to shine here. In this way most of the cards in a set get to see some play.

I know when I went to prerelease for yugioh packs they would have events where you only played with cards from those packs, so it isn't unheard of for yugioh to do this. Now the question becomes, why doesn't yugioh do this more often? I mean draft could never really work since MTG has lands that make up half of the deck, but actually pushing sealed events would be a great way for yugioh to give packs more of an ability to stand alone as well as give cards that simply aren't good enough time to shine.

@Localized Tornado: I know there are cards that like it when you have nothing in your graveyard so use it with any of those. It's not much but it's something. It would also allow for more uses of Reborn Tengu.

[DARKPLANT RISING]

[quote name='機皇神龍アステリスク' timestamp='1308896533' post='5306993']*stuff*[/quote]
ITT: Long stuff earn reps.

[marcher boyz]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1308866377' post='5305942']
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr5

It's about MTG but it still address your question. Either way it's a very good read.[/quote]
[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1308869229' post='5306087']
Wow, that was an awesome article.[/quote]
[quote name='Ｔｈｅ ｓｕｐｐｒｅｓｓｉｏｎ ＰＬＵＴＯ' timestamp='1308887277' post='5306802']
Quoting the awesome article.... [/quote]
[quote name='機皇神龍アステリスク' timestamp='1308896533' post='5306993']
That article makes me want to play Magic sooooooo much...[/quote]
what the hell is wrong with you people

The problem isn't that bad cards exist, it's that TCG players are forced to buy cards they don't want to get the cards they do want.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='marcher boyz' timestamp='1308902910' post='5307071']
what the hell is wrong with you people

The problem isn't that bad cards exist, it's that TCG players are forced to buy cards they don't want to get the cards they do want.
[/quote]
You never need to buy cards you don't want since the single market is always an option.

Really, the question is why do bad cards exist and that article answers it. Really, your point is more about the bad rares since those are the cards people most want.

And Maro wrote an article about that to
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr9

Problem with this article is it deal a lot more with the MTG system since they actually care about the game. As such it doesn't apply as well as the other one, but it's still a VERY good read and I suggest you do.

This wow, thread is becoming my love letter to MTG. sigh, o well, lol. And while I'm on the subject here is ANOTHER thing MTG does much better then yugioh. Yugioh has 5 rarities. Common (8/7 per pack) Rare (1 every pack) Super (1 every 5 packs) Ultra (1 every 12 packs) and Secret (1 every 23 packs). This system is simply horrible, especially when you look at MTG where the highest rarity, mythic, is 1 in every 8 pack. From their it's 1 in 1, 3 in 1, and 10 in 1. Yugioh REALLY needs to kill Secret. O right, that doesn't exist in the OCG market. They also only have 5 Ultras per pack. To be fair though you only get 5 cards a pack if memory serves, but that system is still a HELL of lot better and something like that should be moved to the TCG.

[marcher boyz]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1308904292' post='5307096']
You never need to buy cards you don't want since the single market is always an option. [/quote]
At the end of the day, somebody still has to buy packs.

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1308904292' post='5307096']
Really, the question is why do bad cards exist and that article answers it.[/quote]
question =/= problem

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1308904292' post='5307096']
Really, your point is more about the bad rares since those are the cards people most want.

And Maro wrote an article about that to
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr9[/quote]
no

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1308904292' post='5307096']
This wow, thread is becoming my love letter to MTG. sigh, o well, lol. And while I'm on the subject here is ANOTHER thing MTG does much better then yugioh. Yugioh has 5 rarities. Common (8/7 per pack) Rare (1 every pack) Super (1 every 5 packs) Ultra (1 every 12 packs) and Secret (1 every 23 packs). This system is simply horrible, especially when you look at MTG where the highest rarity, mythic, is 1 in every 8 pack. From their it's 1 in 1, 3 in 1, and 10 in 1. Yugioh REALLY needs to kill Secret. O right, that doesn't exist in the OCG market. They also only have 5 Ultras per pack. To be fair though you only get 5 cards a pack if memory serves, but that system is still a HELL of lot better and something like that should be moved to the TCG.
[/quote]

seems fairer

Konami/ Wizard/ w/e can easily identify the cards that they know are bad and put them in a separate pack for casual players/ collectors/ w/e and not print them in the main sets.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='marcher boyz' timestamp='1308905920' post='5307129']
At the end of the day, somebody still has to buy packs.
[/quote]
Yes, the people that don't mind buying them and don't care that the one rare isn't a bumb so long as they still have 8 other decent cards. O wait, yugioh doesn't have many decent commones in a set. And funny thing is, MTG would have a way around that thanks to sealed and draft being built around cracking packs.

[quote name='marcher boyz' timestamp='1308905920' post='5307129']
question =/= problem
[/quote]
Bad cards aren't a problem. They are a part of the game. Had you read the first article you would know that. Because bad cards long a go can become good (rescue cat), those cards simply aren't for you (say someone that pulled Test Tiger then they don't have a GB deck), or reward the better players by knowing not to play the bad cards.

[quote name='marcher boyz' timestamp='1308905920' post='5307129']
no

Konami/ Wizard/ w/e can easily identify the cards that they know are bad and put them in a separate pack for casual players/ collectors/ w/e and not print them in the main sets.
[/quote]
Again, had you read the article you would know at the very least wizards couldn't do that because of how they make boosters. And how can they know how they bad cards are? Sure they may know that some aren't good but they will never get them all right. I know for a fact that Wizards has thought several cards good only for them to turn out poorly for what ever reason. And again, as I said above Test Tiger is a great card, but if you don't play GBs he's horrible.

And the idea of a secondary pack is just stupid. Really who in the world would buy a pack when they could buy a second one that has cards of a much higher level. And assuming no one does buy the "crap pack" if you would they would only buy the "good" one and even their some cards won't be as good as others. And to quote Maro
[quote name='Maro']
If all “good” cards were common, Wizards would be unable to make the kind of profit necessary to keep printing the game.
[/quote]
So your asking them to print a product no one will buy then print another product people will buy fewer of since it isn't as hard to get the cards they want. Really, if you want a pack full of just good cards that pack would have 1 or 2 cards in it and eve then that good cards might not appeal to you since they don't work in whatever deck you own. This is ESPECIALLY true for MTG where their are 5 colors and not everyone would have decks for those colors and buying packs with only a handful of cards won't at all help them make a deck.

[marcher boyz]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1308907090' post='5307139']
Yes, the people that don't mind buying them and don't care that the one rare isn't a bumb so long as they still have 8 other decent cards. O wait, yugioh doesn't have many decent commones in a set. And funny thing is, MTG would have a way around that thanks to sealed and draft being built around cracking packs.[/quote]
is this even english

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1308907090' post='5307139']
Bad cards aren't a problem. They are a part of the game. Had you read the first article you would know that.[/quote]
When did I say that bad cards were a problem?

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1308907090' post='5307139']
Because bad cards long a go can become good (rescue cat), those cards simply aren't for you (say someone that pulled Test Tiger then they don't have a GB deck), or reward the better players by knowing not to play the bad cards.[/quote]
yes this is completely relevant to my statement

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1308907090' post='5307139']
Again, had you read the article you would know at the very least wizards couldn't do that because of how they make boosters. And how can they know how they bad cards are?[/quote]
2) Different Cards Appeal to Different Players
3) Diversity of Card Powers is Key to Discovery

Read these sections and then tell me that they don't know that they make uncompetitive cards.

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1308907090' post='5307139']
Sure they may know that some aren't good but they will never get them all right. I know for a fact that Wizards has thought several cards good only for them to turn out poorly for what ever reason.[/quote]
WHY THE HELL NOT

wait how do these two sentences connect

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1308907090' post='5307139']
And again, as I said above Test Tiger is a great card, but if you don't play GBs he's horrible.[/quote]
irrelevant

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1308907090' post='5307139']
And the idea of a secondary pack is just stupid. Really who in the world would buy a pack when they could buy a second one that has cards of a much higher level.[/quote]
Yes, nobody has ever bought a starter deck.

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1308907090' post='5307139']
And assuming no one does buy the "crap pack" if you would they would only buy the "good" one and even their some cards won't be as good as others. And to quote Maro[/quote]
What does this even mean?

[quote]If all “good” cards were common, Wizards would be unable to make the kind of profit necessary to keep printing the game. [/quote]
This is what I mean by a bad card:
[img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110510183037/yugioh/images/a/a4/SelfMummificationEXVC-EN-C-1E.jpg[/img]
Nobody will ever want to play this competitively. Taking out the 5/ w/e of these kinds of cards that appear in each set will not destroy the rarity system/ bankrupt Konami. I'm pretty sure that the same goes for MtG.

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1308907090' post='5307139']
So your asking them to print a product no one will buy then print another product people will buy fewer of since it isn't as hard to get the cards they want. Really, if you want a pack full of just good cards that pack would have 1 or 2 cards in it and eve then that good cards might not appeal to you since they don't work in whatever deck you own. This is ESPECIALLY true for MTG where their are 5 colors and not everyone would have decks for those colors and buying packs with only a handful of cards won't at all help them make a deck.
[/quote]
no

The T in TCG stands for trading.

[CDDRodrigo]

Cakey, you win

[Mugendramon]

I saw a guy in DMG use the Mummification thingy on their Big Fish after they had made first Quasar, used pot and Summoned moar fish, and ended up with double Quasar.

It was stupid, and nothing else comes to mind with it. But someone actually used it for something.

Just in case I didn't word correctly:

>Summon first Quasar
>Use Pot
>Summon more fish with Big Fish
>Make space by killing Big Fish
>Double Quasar
>????
>Profit!

[marcher boyz]

[quote name='BlindMonkey' timestamp='1308921384' post='5307286']
I saw a guy in DMG use the Mummification thingy on their Big Fish after they had made first Quasar, used pot and Summoned moar fish, and ended up with double Quasar.

It was stupid, and nothing else comes to mind with it. But someone actually used it for something.
[/quote]
It could still have been put in a casual pack.

*edits post*

[HaouJudai]

NS Fortune Lady Light - set self mummification - They summon oh I don't know - Gaia Knight the synchro - activate self mummification - Fortune Lady Fire - Gaia Knight dies - they take 26k dmge - play solidarity - Attack with 1200 atk Fortune Lady Fire - Self Mummification just did 3800 dmge in a single turn - Tier 3 deck and it's a combo within a combo within a dream - Conception.

Ummmm I call Yugioh - The Yugi Lottery whenever I buy boosters - it's no different than buying a lottery ticket - I buy konami's crap because I like the game and I approve of what the company is doing. So as a consumer. I consume. In my monthly budget I set money aside for what I call a payment to konami.

Konami digitial entertainment survived a global meltdown while peddling purely to the leisure hobby industry of video games and trading cards - people were probably eating less at times because they were desperate to play or buy something from this game.

No one trolls like trollnami - They are pros at that.

[Dr. Cakey]

[quote name='BlindMonkey' timestamp='1308921384' post='5307286']
I saw a guy in DMG use the Mummification thingy on their Big Fish after they had made first Quasar, used pot and Summoned moar fish, and ended up with double Quasar.
[/quote]
[img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090202033110/yugioh/images/d/db/MystikWokSDRL-EN-C-1E.jpg[/img]

[quote name='HaouJudai' timestamp='1308928453' post='5307399']
NS Fortune Lady Light - set self mummification - They summon oh I don't know - Gaia Knight the synchro - activate self mummification - Fortune Lady Fire - Gaia Knight dies - they take 26k dmge - play solidarity - Attack with 1200 atk Fortune Lady Fire - Self Mummification just did 3800 dmge in a single turn - Tier 3 deck and it's a combo within a combo within a dream - Conception.
[/quote]
I was about to say that was a genuine use, and then I remembered...
[img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100629152737/yugioh/images/8/8b/InterdimensionalMatterTransporterDPKB-EN-C-1E.png[/img]
(Kaiba used it, so it must be good)

I was very unimpressed with that article on rare cards. I don't know how Magic's different formats work, but I think "making people spend money" is not a good way to minimize the impact of a card on a certain format. Saying "dat card iz long it gotta b rare" is absurd, as is "card r hard 2 get, gotta maek sur n00bz dun c it". The only way amateur players are going to improve is if they see complex cards and learn to wrap their minds around them. Meanwhile, Timmy the Evil is collecting fatteh monsters because...hell if I know why...and it's the duty of Magic to make the cards he wants expensive and hard to get in order to please him.

[evilfusion]

One main difference is the rarity scale of Yugioh vs Magic, though. Yugioh's rarities are absurd, how some incredibly crap cards end up as Secret Rares. Ignoring the whole concept of TCG/OCG Exclusives getting Secret Rare slots, that's just utter BS. Secret Rarity is supposed to be for either incredibly good or incredible awesome cards, so that the shiny foil makes it WORTH more, for trade or sell. Not for utter crap that makes a player immensely pissed that they got a Secret Rare, and they'll probably never pawn it off for something good.

I assume another reason that rares =/= good is because otherwise it'll be a case of "shiny cards= good" and that's not really promoting much game diversity. Some decks run lots of commons and it's got a hilarity factor that a deck of commons for maybe $50 beat that ultra-shiny $800 deck.

Then there's upgrading rares. I'll be honest: The idea that DAD got boosted to a Secret Rare makes sense because powerful cards should be harder to get. On the flip side, most players will never see one and can't afford to get one. Then it's a rich man's game, and that's just unfair.

[Dr. Cakey]

[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1308944272' post='5307775']
One main difference is the rarity scale of Yugioh vs Magic, though. Yugioh's rarities are absurd, how some incredibly crap cards end up as Secret Rares. Ignoring the whole concept of TCG/OCG Exclusives getting Secret Rare slots, that's just utter BS. Secret Rarity is supposed to be for either incredibly good or incredible awesome cards, so that the shiny foil makes it WORTH more, for trade or sell. Not for utter crap that makes a player immensely pissed that they got a Secret Rare, and they'll probably never pawn it off for something good.

I assume another reason that rares =/= good is because otherwise it'll be a case of "shiny cards= good" and that's not really promoting much game diversity. Some decks run lots of commons and it's got a hilarity factor that a deck of commons for maybe $50 beat that ultra-shiny $800 deck.

Then there's upgrading rares. I'll be honest: The idea that DAD got boosted to a Secret Rare makes sense because powerful cards should be harder to get. On the flip side, most players will never see one and can't afford to get one. Then it's a rich man's game, and that's just unfair.
[/quote]
Good point. Let me look over the Secret Rares in EXVC...

[b]Mystic Piper[/b]: Piper Control is badass and all, but Secret Rare for this junk?
[b]Vampire Dragon[/b]: Wait, it's a Secret Rare? And I pulled one? ...Cool. It's not an awful card by any stretch of the imagination, but it doesn't have any solid uses and doesn't work in Zombies.
[b]Tour Guide from the Underworld[/b]: Tour Guide. 'Nuff said.
[b]Gladiator Taming[/b]: Seriously? Konami, did you make a mistake and switch this with W Nebula Meteorite?
[b]Psychic Shockwave[/b]: lol
[b]Meklord Emperor Skiel[/b]: Gets a bye for being an anime card, I suppose.
[b]Scrap Orthros[/b]: is a Secret Rare? I need to stop playing online so much.
[b]Blue Rose Dragon[/b]: ...but isn't this packaged with WC11 (when it comes out in North America)?

So, the actual explosive super-powers on this list are: Tour Guide. And Skiel gets an anime pass. 25% of the Secret Rares are reasonable. That's [i]it[/i].

[Airride]

[quote name='機皇神龍アステリスク' timestamp='1308945628' post='5307821']
[b]Blue Rose Dragon[/b]: ...but isn't this packaged with WC11 (when it comes out in North America)?
[/quote]
It was the Guide Promo, and Others before it (Infernity Thingy in Shining Darkness and Stygian Street Patrol) were secrets.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='marcher boyz' timestamp='1308916242' post='5307233']
When did I say that bad cards were a problem?
[/quote]
[quote name='marcher boyz' timestamp='1308905920' post='5307129']
question =/= problem
[/quote]
What else could I read that as.

[quote name='marcher boyz' timestamp='1308916242' post='5307233']
2) Different Cards Appeal to Different Players
3) Diversity of Card Powers is Key to Discovery

Read these sections and then tell me that they don't know that they make uncompetitive cards.
[/quote]
O, I see, you want all cards to be competitive. By definition that could never happened because even if every card was good their will always be cards that are better then other. If you limit to game to the 500 best cards I'd say maybe 60% will be played and that is REALLY pushing it. The fact it they aren't trying to make every card competitive because their are casual players too. Take the new Jace that just got spoiled for MTG. Most players are like "it sucks or is just ok" but when posted on the MTG facebook everyone is calling it broken. Two different types of players end up in two different responses.

And while they do know some cards aren't competitive they do make cards that they think will be but end up not getting used for one reason or another.

[quote name='marcher boyz' timestamp='1308916242' post='5307233']
WHY THE HELL NOT
[/quote]
Because they are human. Really while they can get normally good read on the future meta they only have about 20 people to bounce ideas off of. A good example in MTG is a card called Birthing Pod. The people that play test for the future meta kept trying to get the deck to work, but they never could. Come a recent event the pros showed up with working versions of the deck.

[quote name='marcher boyz' timestamp='1308916242' post='5307233']
Yes, nobody has ever bought a starter deck.
[/quote]
The two aren't comparable. You know what your getting in the starter and their are always some decent cards. If you tell ANYONE that you have an option of two packs, one with tourney level cards and one with a bunch of garbage no one would buy the other pack.

[quote name='marcher boyz' timestamp='1308916242' post='5307233']
This is what I mean by a bad card:
[img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110510183037/yugioh/images/a/a4/SelfMummificationEXVC-EN-C-1E.jpg[/img]
Nobody will ever want to play this competitively. Taking out the 5/ w/e of these kinds of cards that appear in each set will not destroy the rarity system/ bankrupt Konami. I'm pretty sure that the same goes for MtG.
[/quote]
Do you really think that the 5 or so trash cards that show up a really that important. Really, you get 8 commons and even if one of them happens to be this who care since you still have 7 other potentially decent cards. Sure it won't be missed, I would never try arguing that, but is this really that a big a deal, especially when most people buy packs mostly with the rare in mind.

And again you bring up the competitive aspect. The vast majority of cards will never be competitive, but that should never stop them from making fun crazy cards. Really, they have whole articles on ways to make the "junk" rares in a set useable. I know at the last MTG prerelease I pulled the 3 worse rares from the new set, but I've still see ways for them to be used in decks.

[quote name='機皇神龍アステリスク' timestamp='1308939158' post='5307658']
I was very unimpressed with that article on rare cards. I don't know how Magic's different formats work, but I think "making people spend money" is not a good way to minimize the impact of a card on a certain format. Saying "dat card iz long it gotta b rare" is absurd, as is "card r hard 2 get, gotta maek sur n00bz dun c it". The only way amateur players are going to improve is if they see complex cards and learn to wrap their minds around them. Meanwhile, Timmy the Evil is collecting fatteh monsters because...hell if I know why...and it's the duty of Magic to make the cards he wants expensive and hard to get in order to please him.
[/quote]
In short the two main formats in MTG are limited and constructed. Constructed takes cards you'v already pulled from packs to make a 60 card deck. Limited on the other hand uses cards from packs to make a 40 card deck from cards you either opened in packs or picked out from a series of packs 1 at a time. This totally creates to different play experiences since so any kind of creature nuke would need to be rare even if it isn't as good as most others. Another example is a card that would mill the opponent. With smaller decks a card that mills 10 while not good in constructed would be very strong in limited, so those end up at rare too. Also because of the way limited works most cards that aren't tourney level will often see some play here with only the Self Mummification cards remaining in the sideboard.

The design philosophy in MTG is different from yugioh. They don't like wordy card since that normally means they are complicated and they prefer more simple and strait forward at lower rarities. This goes back to a "less is more" type philosophy.

Again, if they had a bunch of complicated cards at common that would scare off new players. And of course the new plays need to see the complicated cards, that is why they get a rare in every pack. It's just giving them to many at one time might not have a positive result.

Here, these are rare Timmy cards.
[img]http://magiccards.info/scans/en/nph/88.jpg[/img][img]http://magiccards.info/scans/en/som/205.jpg[/img]
While it has little constructed value it is a bomb in limited. And the cards are hardly expensive, with them selling online for $1 and $.5 respectively. Really most MTG cards top off around $10. The current standard card pool has like 10 cards over $15 with the highest being a standard banned card at $60. The next highest is like $35.

And just so you can understand something about timmy.
[spoiler=Maro on Timmy]
The first question I always ask of a profile is: what does this profile want when they play Magic? Timmy wants to experience something. Timmy plays Magic because he enjoys the feeling he gets when he plays. What that feeling is will vary from Timmy to Timmy, but what all Timmies have in common is that they enjoy the visceral experience of playing. As you will see, Johnny and Spike have a destination in mind when they play. Timmy is in it for the journey.

One of the great myths about Timmy is that he is young and inexperienced. I think this comes from the fact that a non-Timmy (particularly a Spike) looking at a Timmy play reads his choices as those of inexperience. Why else would he play overcosted fatties or coin flipping cards or cards that, simply put, aren't that good? Because Spike misses the point. Timmy plays with cards that make him happy; cards that create cool moments; cards that make him laugh; cards that allow him to hang with his friends; cards that cause him to have fun. Winning and losing isn't even really the point (although winning is fun – Timmy gets that). For Timmy, the entire reason to play is having a good time.
[/spoiler]

[Resident Fascist]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1308947366' post='5307861']
While it has little constructed value it is a bomb in limited. And the cards are hardly expensive, with them selling online for $1 and $.5 respectively. Really most MTG cards top off around $10. The current standard card pool has like 10 cards over $15 with the highest being a standard banned card at $60. The next highest is like $35.
[/quote]


Black lotus. Your point is invalid.

[-Lightray Daedalus-]

[quote name='Ｔｈｅ ｂｌａｚｉｎｇ ＭＡＲＳ' timestamp='1308948259' post='5307885']
Black lotus. Your point is invalid.
[/quote]

Black Lotus =/= Standard
Black Lotus =/= Legal

also
Black Lotus is a card whose last reprint was from 1993
So it has the added Value of collector