[ANIME, But who cares]Rage Resynchro

[Guest CDDRodrigo]

Shard, stop comparing individual cards of MtG with individual cards of YGO. The mana cost changes EVERYTHING. Also the other rules affect this matter as well.

 

Rage Resynchro was used by Luca, right?

[Resident Fascist]

Fine, But Ponder is still better.

Jack used this card in his duel against Andore, using "Mad Archfiend" (Lvl 4) and "Dark Resonator" Special Summoned from the Graveyard with "Powerful Rebirth" (Lvl 4), to Special Summon "Red Dragon Archfiend" from the Graveyard.

[Legend Zero]

 

they look like the same card to me, except ponder is actually better because you don't have to shuffle.

I don't see a restriction on Ponder. Gameplay =/= Individual Cards <___<

[Black W Mage]

>Player is bad @ yugiohz

>keeps losing

>blames it on someone else

>other bad players agree

>???

>profit

[Resident Fascist]

I don't see a restriction on Ponder. Gameplay =/= Individual Cards <___<

 

Ok Ok, I know Ponder costs Mana XD

 

>Player is bad @ yugiohz

>keeps losing

>blames it on someone else

>other bad players agree

>???

>profit

 

I don't keep losing. Apparently a 4:1 ratio~ is being bad at the game.

[evilfusion]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Frankly, I find your griping annoying. Yes, Yu-gi-oh's meta is currently screwed up. That's going to happen when banlists are only every six months and is controlled by the company branch half-way across the world, and due to TCG Exclusives and crap, doesn't even have some of the crucial cards that factor into the TCG decks (Saber cards, etc). As such, a number of our best decks don't even exist in Japan, meaning their entire meta is different.

 

And Tengu is a TCG Exclusive, right? Oh god. Good TCG Exclusives is what really screws the game over, since they're unregulated.

 

Anyway, I've for a while been increasingly annoyed by how everyone decries Konami. For the love of hell, they only managed a worldwide TCG that's lasted for how many years? It's successful and the success will likely continue for years to come.

 

There's been problems along the way with the meta. That's how the banlist came into fruition. Is it perfect? God no. Is it partially controlled by minimalism, in which killing EVERY good card at once will cause a massive shift in card value? Of course! You'd do the same in their shoes. You dont want to hit every good card in the game, even the ones that are broken, because if you do, the balance shifts too much. You want to only hit certain aspects so that it gets leveled out better.

 

And they have taken care of issues. A bit gradually, and sometimes in stages, but they have.

 

Examples:

 

1) Infernity got hit the very next list after TSHD.

2) Lightsworns got hit when they started dominating.

3) The list after Legendary Sams came out, Gateway got limited. It wasn't enough, so I think it's about to get banned.

4) Skill-less, mass advantage gaining cards that end up with OTK/FTKs often get killed quickly, such as Substitoad. The list after, Mass Driver gets hit.

 

There have been missteps and it's clear they experiment with the card pool, like banning Heavy Storm and giving us Reborn and Dark Hole. Those changes stuck. It obviously had turned out much better than most anticipated. I even remember thinking that unbanning those cards was ridiculously stupid.

 

Several times people cried bloody murder about how card X doesn't deserve to be hit and card Y wasn't hit hard enough. However, I still note that in most cases, the changes did what they were meant to do: The affected deck stopped ruling the meta unopposed.

 

What system do you want them to use? I think cycling Sets is a hideously stupid notion, because your entire deck becomes useless after a set period of time and you need to start all over.

[Resident Fascist]

4) Skill-less, mass advantage gaining cards that end up with OTK/FTKs often get killed quickly, such as Substitoad. The list after, Mass Driver gets hit.

 

 

 

yo

 

What system do you want them to use? I think cycling Sets is a hideously stupid notion, because your entire deck becomes useless after a set period of time and you need to start all over.

 

Card Prices become lower. Surely that's a good thing?

Also, it fights power creep.

Anyway, I've for a while been increasingly annoyed by how everyone decries Konami. For the love of hell, they only managed a worldwide TCG that's lasted for how many years? It's successful and the success will likely continue for years to come.

 

Until cards become too strong.

[evilfusion]

If anyone looked at the topic before the crash about "balancing the meta", my post actually said all 3 of those cards needed to be hit.

 

Hyper Librarian has the excuse of just being released, and its existence makes the other two nearly insufferable in the meta.

 

@Prices: They're only lower as singles. If you buy PACKS, starting over is hell.

[Resident Fascist]

@Prices: They're only lower as singles. If you buy PACKS, starting over is hell.

 

Well, buy Singles then. I'd rather pay £70 or less every year or so than £500 in one go.

[evilfusion]

That doesn't really alleive the fact you have to start your deck/collection over from scratch. Even though individual cards will be cheaper, it works best if you already know exactly what cards you want to build the ideal deck. What Konami really does wrong is the lack of support for older archetypes, but tons of support for new archetypes, making it that you have to buy into the new archetype to be on top, rather than perfecting the deck you currently own, only to get cut off when the next new archetype surfaces.

 

Power creep is an issue and while the game COULD revolve around set rotation, I don't want to pay money for a game that will make me start over with my deck, strategy, and collection. This is actually why I never got into Magic. I already found Yugioh a casual hobby when I first got introduced to Magic, and the thought of searching for cards, only for them to all become illegal later seemed like a waste.

 

Granted, I don't play RL Yugioh anymore, and haven't since TDGS, because of Synchros being too expensive to get and keep up with. I do keep on top of the game knowledge and stuff, by playing on simulators and the video games. I understand that Yugioh is expensive to stay in, and that is a gripe I have with the game.

 

But, some people (ie YOU) seem to be saying "Screw Konami! I want Wizards of the Coast to run the game! They'd do it better!"

 

Great, glad you're a Magic fanboy now, Shard. I'm sure the company and creators are doing a fantastic job with the game, seeing as it's been around for a while, but while Konami has its faults, I don't think the company is the dumbest, greediest, most careless company in the world. They obviously put effort into the game and stuff for it to be around as long as it is.

[Resident Fascist]

But, some people (ie YOU) seem to be saying "Screw Konami! I want Wizards of the Coast to run the game! They'd do it better!"

 

I didn't say Konami where the worst company in the world, I still stick to my belief that Microsoft are worse, but they don't make the playing field level at all. Some decks are standing on an Open plain while others are on top of a mountian with a long range Missile Launcher. Konami needs to give archtypes support that's balanced, and make Balanced cards more, then I'd actually like the game more.

 

Great, glad you're a Magic fanboy now, Shard. I'm sure the company and creators are doing a fantastic job with the game

 

Banning Jace, The Metagame Sculptor and Stoneforge Whore was a good start. M12 has nice reprints. As for Yugioh, Duality in the tins looks nice, and I'd probably like Konami more as a publisher if they reprinted Solemn Warning in a Structure deck somewhere.

 

I understand that Yugioh is expensive to stay in, and that is a gripe I have with the game.

 

Expensive is an understatement, to be honest

[Flame Dragon]

What system do you want them to use? I think cycling Sets is a hideously stupid notion, because your entire deck becomes useless after a set period of time and you need to start all over.

Doesn't banning cards do the same thing? Sure it might not say it on the label but the effect is very clear, older cards get phased out and newer cards take there place. And on the subject of bannings you yourself said that as an archetype got to strong it got hit, causing it to fall out of the meta. This results in the same need to start over with a new deck.

 

Also, the way Konami designs packs also causes cycling to happen. I played casually and had several decks, but even then I found myself getting no cards to really help any of my decks since all the new cards went for new archetypes. So it was either by more packs and build more decks to stay up to date or jut stop, I choose the later. MTG on the other hand normally has some support for some older archetypes in the newer expansions.

 

If anyone looked at the topic before the crash about "balancing the meta", my post actually said all 3 of those cards needed to be hit.

 

Hyper Librarian has the excuse of just being released, and its existence makes the other two nearly insufferable in the meta.

 

@Prices: They're only lower as singles. If you buy PACKS, starting over is hell.

IMO, only the top two need to go, but that's a subject for another thread.

 

And again, assuming you stay up to date and by a decent number of cards when new sets come out you should already have decks ready to go when the sets rotate. So you really aren't starting over, more so moving on to the new decks with the cards you should already have. If you don't have them you now can take advantage of the lower card prices.

 

I understand the issue with cycling sets but it isn't much different from what happens in yugioh already and again assuming you buy packs on a semi-regular bases you should have cards for new decks when the format rotates.

[Resident Fascist]

I understand the issue with cycling sets but it isn't much different from what happens in yugioh already and again assuming you buy packs on a semi-regular bases you should have cards for new decks when the format rotates.

 

This.

Also old cards are playable in Vintage.

[Umbra]

In all honesty the problem is Konami's inability to spread the good cards out among all rarities and not have the bulk cluster at the top of the tower.

 

This "problem" you're talking about is simple economics - supply and demand. Cards of a higher rarity are more difficult to obtain, which results in a smaller available supply. Assuming the demand is the same, the price will go up and Konami makes more of a profit.

 

The obvious way to reach an equilibrium price would be if players actively stopped pursuing the high-end cards and settled for a slower meta.

[Flame Dragon]

This "problem" you're talking about is simple economics - supply and demand. Cards of a higher rarity are more difficult to obtain, which results in a smaller available supply. Assuming the demand is the same, the price will go up and Konami makes more of a profit.

 

The obvious way to reach an equilibrium price would be if players actively stopped pursuing the high-end cards and settled for a slower meta.

However part of the problem can be alleviated by spreading out the good cards. Yes, cards at higher rarities will always cost more and the chase cards will always hit double digits. However be spreading out the good cards and giving some to common, some to rare, and some to super players won't need to buy a bunch of high end ultra and secret cards and in the end and players don't need to buy as many chase cards. Konami's bottom line really won't be hurt since there will still be chase cards for people that don't buy singles and people competitive players now have cheaper singles on the market and that doesn't hurt them since they normally buy singles anyway. And, I know things are probably a lot more complicated then I seem to think since this is a business and they are all amount profit maximizing and I really don't know much about that, but as a gamer, this is how I see things.

 

And, as long as the tools are available gamers will always take the high-end path.

 

Also, yea, this topic is just spinning it's wheels and is more about why yugioh isn't as good as MTG. Yea, something tells me this really doesn't belong in this section.

 

Anyway, I think I should end this now and will lock this. Feel free to make a Yugioh vs MTG thread in debates though since this seems to belong there a lot more.